As the title suggests, this thread will likely contain spoilers, but more of a historical nature than spoilers for the adventure path itself. So, you have been warned...
I was wondering if the staff at Paizo or the wonderful community here could help me with a question. In Rise of the Runelords #1, it mentions that the ancestors of both the Shoanti barbarians as well as the ancestors of the native Varisians were subjugated castes kept under the Runelords' tyrannical thumb. When Thassilon fell, I could see how both castes, having been disenfranchised to one degree or another under the Runelords, would be hesitant to build another society similar to one like ancient Thassilon.
However, it's been 10,000 years since the fall of Thassilon. That's a lot of time for several new cultures to develop. I can see how the Shoanti haven't really evolved much past the tribal, nomadic hunter/gatherer society. I mean,living in the harsh environs of the Storval Plateau, having to fight for their very survival against the various giant and ogre clans like they do can't be good for stable cultural development.
So, that being said, what about the Varisians? It seems the lands they chose to be their 'stomping grounds' are a bit more hospitable. So, why are they still nomadic? Why haven't they settled down over the course of the last 10,000 years? I realise the Chelish invaders (and subsequent subjugation of both the Varisians and the Shoanti) of 300 years ago would have shaken the cultures up and sent people packing again, but what were they doing before the Chelish (Chelaxians?) arrived?
Please note I am in no way trying to demean or nitpick the history of this gaming world in any way. On the contrary, I'm absolutely loving what I see so far! I'm just at a loss for how I should fill in the gap in history for the Varisian people. You see, certain members of my gaming group tend to be very...detail oriented, and any info you folks at Paizo or the community at large can shed on the subject, the easier it will be for me to suspend their disbelief. Any help is much appreciated! Thanks!
This is a good question. The easiest answer to give your players when they ask about the past 10,000 years of no development is to say "yeah, weird, huh?" and move on. Acknowledge it as a possible adventure hook/mystery, but keep it nebulous for a future adventure/campaign.
If you want an answer now, though, perhaps you could find an opportunity to toss in a legend about a Varisian hero-king who rose among his people a few thousand years back. While half of the Varisians united under his banner, the other half remembered their history and fought against him. In the end, the hero-king was killed (or banished or whatever suits your needs) and the Varisian empire fell. All your PCs are left with is knowledge that the Varisians are violently opposed to imperial-ness and no idea why.
How's that for a start?
We know that the Varisians had some sort of post-Runelord culture that has since fallen. The Varisian idols are of "forgotten spirits", and are "[s]cavenged from rare uneroded Varisian monuments".
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While this does not directly answer the question, because Varisia is mostly unaffected by the events described, this thread has some information that would definitely be relevant to what the Varisians were up to.
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I wouldn't assume a progression from nomadic culture to sedentary for the Varisians. The forces at play in their lives aren’t entirely anthropological.
The most compelling explanation is two-fold.
1. The servant caste was kept in check by enchantments emanating from monuments in the largest cities. In Thassilon's early days they encouraged harmony. In the later years they were beacons of slavery. It has taken thousands of years for the magics to fade. The Varisians have, until recently, avoided settling these choice areas for fear of falling under the sway of ‘ancient curses’.
2. Desna, in those ancient times, was a goddess of freedom worshipped in secret. The nomadic lifestyle is a sort of 'dance of eternal thanks' for her part in dashing Thassilon to ruins.
Creative Director
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There are more Varisians in the world than just Varisia. They're spread all over the place. They're not really builders, though, but there is a nation founded by Varisians over on the other side of Belkzen. There's more information, of coruse, about what they've been up to over the past 10,000 years, and a significant chunk of it is being written and developed right now for the Gazetteer.
So eventually, there will be more info.
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historically/anthropologically, and putting it very loosely.
Settlement goes hand in hand with agriculture. You can argue endlessly about why communities turn to agriculture (to feed growing populations, or to create growing populations? To deal with hardship, or to be armed against hardship? etc etc.) but it's clear that settlement and agriculture are not inevitable.
The problem is that settled, agricultural communities create more surplus and exploit their environment more efficiently - thus other communities are forced to yeild to this system or be conquered/absorbed/dominated by the agriculturists.
The Varisians could be enduring this process as we watch/play. Alternatively; they could have found a niche based upon minor tweaks of ecological balance caused by unusual influences (magic, being the obvious candidate) allowing them to survive.
The obvious response is to research the Roma; why did their transient lifestyle survive so long in settled Europe?
Thanks to everyone for your answers! Once again, the community and staff never ceases to amaze - and on James' day off, no less! :) These posts will give me plenty of springboards for my players. And, of course, I'll be anxious to see what other answers the gazeteer will bring! Thanks again!
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It is silly to assume that a culture will progress in the same steps and same general timeline as our civilization did. We afterall didn't have the benefit (crutch?) of magic. If necessity is the mother of invention, then inventions would be pretty far and few between in a world where magic can do just about anything.
That (appeal to magic as a slowing force) is a two edged sword.
Just as technology continually evolved, so would magic, and to a point where you wind up with Eberron.If magic can not evolve, then it will eventually find itself superseded by technology, just as it essentially did on earth.
So without a particularly compelling reason, I would not assume magic would slow down development at all.
Likewise I would not underestimate just how much basic engineering and agriculture were developed pre-Renaissance, particularly on a global scale. (Which definitely means particularly with one of the worst cases of cultural paralysis and regression - China.)
Put a lot of that stuff together immediately, as could be enabled with magic, and you would have everything ready for the Industrial Revolution before the Dark Ages ever started.
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Real world analogs are a good "first approximation". Of course you could deviate from this, but it certainly serves as a model. Until we encounter aliens and observe their development, its the only "real" model we have.
Keep in mind, that mankind lived a hunter-gatherer lifestyle tens of millenia before settling. Even today, with technology and advanced civilization we still have aboriginal peoples adhering to their way of life in certain pockets of the world. Its really not that unusual. Even in places like America and Europe we still have "gypsies" (for lack of a better word). Although American gypsies smell like patchouli and listen to the Grateful Dead (just kidding...sorta).
The Varisians have a STRONG cultural identity and resist the Cultural Norm of the "Chelaxians". The Sczarni are more militant in their resistance, for example. Also, I beleive the people of Magnimar are a mix. There are certainly "civilized" people in Magnimar of predominately Varisian descent.
Times, they are a changin'.