Creative Director
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Just curious, but would Sasserine's laws (in this case Merchant District, if of course the various Districts have their own laws) apply to a ship out in the harbor?
I'd say yes, up till the span or where ever the city limits are at, but I'd like to here what everyone has to say.
thanks
RM
Yeah; Sasserine law does extend throughout all the harbor. Probably a little bit beyond out to sea, really.
heck, yes, otherwise a thief etc. could simply escape prosecution by jumping into the harbour and swimming out to sea. Now that would make a for a very strange, if interesting city. the "town of the frogmen muggers".... wait, that's Innsmouth but I guess you get the idea.
in reality, the laws of a country used to extend outward to sea first as far as gun would carry (no joking), then three miles, nowadays its twelve miles and for certain types of laws and rules 200 miles.
Before the "gunshot" rule, I guess the law exetended as far to sea as the ruler's men/soliders were willing and able to carry it.
heck, yes, otherwise a thief etc. could simply escape prosecution by jumping into the harbour and swimming out to sea. ...
Would you have to step into the water before shooting the thief then? Or since he is in the harbor can you shoot him from the dock? To avoid the murder charges I mean. :)
heck, yes, otherwise a thief etc. could simply escape prosecution by jumping into the harbour and swimming out to sea. ...Would you have to step into the water before shooting the thief then? Or since he is in the harbor can you shoot him from the dock? To avoid the murder charges I mean. :)
from the depths of my legal heart : NO !
He would be outside jurisdiction of the city-guards, so they wouldn't hold any power of arrest over him, on whatever charges, and attacking, even with the intend to peacefully arrest would constitute charges of assault, probably kidnapping and wrongful limiting of his civil rights as a human/sentient being. Unless he is undead... well ther might be a viable line of defense, if you can prove that one couldn't avoid that presumption. In that case, it would only be willful damage to property. You would probably get off with a fine or a few years on a galley - depending upon's whose undead he was, hehe.
Shooting him while in the harbour would otherwise be.... murder ? Just as on land ? Or by the laws of the nation claiming sovereignity over the open seas, and as such, incidentally the waters of Sasserine's harbour. Taking sentient life, espcially by crossbow bolt to the back is a universal crime, except for a number of ill-repute orkish fiefdoms. Even there, you might just need a hunting permit...
File a claim for legal extradiction (if such an intra-institutional agreement even exists ) and cross your fingers.
All questions addressed ?
Where do I send my bill for legal advice ? *wicked grin*
...
Where do I send my bill for legal advice ? *wicked grin*
To the harbor. I will meet you there O:)
To the harbor. I will meet you there O:)...
Where do I send my bill for legal advice ? *wicked grin*
behind this file of papers, there is an idea, Mr Curaigh, ! And... Ideas are bullet, ahem.... "arrowproof" !
On the other hand where is my cloak of constitutional invisibilty and my trusty rod of legally indisputable disintegration ? After sundown, for a nice round of... drinks ? You know us bloodsucking types really like the cool hours of the night to talk... business !
Limits of jurisdiction? Ha!
With no competing legal authority until Cauldron, Sasserine is free to enforce its laws as far as it is able - which of course isn't very far, but surely extends out to bowshot in all directions.
You guys are thinking too much about modern legalize. In a fantasy setting like this, the law reaches wherever it could - and wishes it could reach further.
For example, assume the PCs kill Vanthus at Cracken's Cove, and that Lavinia hasn't realized he is evil. When they return to Sasserine, shoe could surely make a legal case against them. Being a lesser noble, she would probably win - but she would be pretty much up to her own devices in arresting them (possibly with some help from the watch). And I assume the same would apply if the murder occurred in Greyhawk City.
Legal squabbles pretty much exist only between different power groups. A lone criminal or adventurer is not a power group. If the city can get its hands on them and be convinced of their guilt, I doubt it would care one whit about jurisdiction.
lighten up, please.. for one, I fully agree (as outlined in the initial reply) that arbitary extension of spatial legal extend would be done very much ad hoc. If anyone even cared....
...and as for that, actually people DID care. Very much so (!) from the ancient phoenician traders (and the Egyptians before them ) of the Mediterranean (who insisted on the freedom of the seas with regard to taxes etc for goods aboard their ships ), to the greek city-states and island tyrannies/kingdoms , to the roman empire and the north-african pirates right into the middle ages and modern times. Same goes for Asia or trade along the eastern african coast.
As trade has always been the mainspring of human legal development, NEVER underestimate as to how much law applies to jurisdiction and the borders of it, especially in maritime surroundings. And just how many people actually take breaches of it very hard, and shift trade (and prosperity) elsewhere if arbitrary and non-orderly enforcement is being witnessed or heard of. Merchants are as sensitive, if not more so about dictatorial enforcement or tolerance of it by the powers that be, than anyone else.
There were numerous wars, far more than about noble causes or heroic believes, fought over jurisdiction, its extend and merchantile laws and protocolls, not to mention the right to aggression and physical enforcement or the legal immunity to local customs and laws in certain areas - like merchant quarters, the anchorages (Sasserine harbour, anyone ?), trading districts and foreign enclaves....
( Then and nowadays... humanity never seems to get wiser about its conflicts, at least not by much )
Sasserine being a city statem dependent on trade and not a military tyranny strikes me as more than commonly careful on such matters
Aye, there are limits of jurisdiction as it applies to in the area of other centers of power. But in the wilderness, there are no centers of power.