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Ok, I have a difficult decision to make concering my Daggerspell mage. He's a Chaotic good PC who follows the Whirling Fury wholeheartedly. I'm running Tides of Dread where...
I'm ok with him doing the task but he accepted the reward without flinching, in fact, he chatted with the creature about all of the possible rewards. Now I'm torn, I've told him that accepting such a boon falls somewhere between the -2 for associating and -20 for accepting a boon. Out of game I was willing to reward him for his faithfulness in not accepting anything from evil (not that I tell him that), but now he's arguing for his characters sake to keep the item, since he didnt know how his faction would react to his accepting such a gift.
In my opinion, he should have know better but I've been a hard @$$ a lot of the time so I'm not sure.
I've required that he perform one of a few options.
1. He stops using the item until he brings about the evil creatures destruction via personal destruction or leading in a hit team.
2. He seeks atonement and pays a cleric to cast it for him.
3. Or he can just deal with the penalties.
Am I being unreasonable? Give me options and opinions.
I've required that he perform one of a few options.
1. He stops using the item until he brings about the evil creatures destruction via personal destruction or leading in a hit team.
2. He seeks atonement and pays a cleric to cast it for him.
3. Or he can just deal with the penalties.Am I being unreasonable? Give me options and opinions.
What funny is that the Minotaur/Barbarian/CoG is also part the the Whirling Fury and when they got to this point I didn't think much of it. Probably a mistake on my part but I though the Whirling Fury was more about stopping the influence of evil outsides on the Prime Material Plane. I don't remember the Aspect being classified as an evil outsider (granted I'm going from memory and it was a while ago). I would say your being a bit harsh but as you can see I appearently glossed over the whole thing in my game.
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No, the Aspect is a Chaotic Evil Ousider, I can only assume what plane it's from, and the PC didnt take the tooth, he was after a more rogue compatable item. ;) If he knew about the tooth and took it I'd burn him on the spot.
The Whirling Fury are about opposing the influence of evil outsiders on the material plane, but befriending those who associate with and accepting boons is a definate no no.
-Stabbity
No, the Aspect is a Chaotic Evil Ousider, I can only assume what plane it's from, and the PC didnt take the tooth, he was after a more rogue compatable item. ;) If he knew about the tooth and took it I'd burn him on the spot.
The Whirling Fury are about opposing the influence of evil outsiders on the material plane, but befriending those who associate with and accepting boons is a definate no no.
-Stabbity
Yep I totally missed that at the time. Good catch on your part. I would say then at attonment is the best plan. I would hate for someone to miss out on a good magic item since it is so scare inn that module because he is following one of the Affiliations meant for the AP.
Another option might be that if the PC turns in the item to the Whirling Fury (the priest guy in Farshore) for destruction then the priest could give him an equivalent gp magic item for following the code.
PC: "I have recieved this gift from one of our foes and don't feel right keeping it so I am giving it to you for destruction. Hoepfully it will weaken their cause"
Priest: "Thank you I will make sure that it stays out of their hands forever. You have surely made first of many enemies helping out our cause. I have held this item in safety for the organization so that some day it could help us. Take so that you may take the fight to the heart of the matter."
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I've required that he perform one of a few options.
1. He stops using the item until he brings about the evil creatures destruction via personal destruction or leading in a hit team.
2. He seeks atonement and pays a cleric to cast it for him.
3. Or he can just deal with the penalties.Am I being unreasonable? Give me options and opinions.
If you want to be nice (or call it "maintaining game balance") instead of #2, he has to turn the item over to a good cleric. Then, instead of paying for the atonement (which I never like - seems too Johann Tetzel ) he has to go defeat some horrible level-appropriate creature in perilous single combat- maybe naked, or with no spells, or blindfolded. If he lives, then he gets the creature's loot, which may contain some other magic goodies that are rather sparse in this AP.
RP-ing bad dreams or visions that tell him to ditch the item could be fun, too. He has to drop it into the volcano, but horrible level-appropriate creature awaits at the rim of the crater....
Eh. Zotzilaha is a god, not a demon. His alignment is simply a consequence of his portfolio, which has a natural place in the order of the prime material plane. Furthermore, he's a dying god with no worshippers and no grand plan of recovery, so associating with him is not likely to have any major impact on anything. He is well outside the interests of the Whirling Fury.
If you're inclined to be strict, the PC should still get some sort of penalty, but -20 is outlandish considering all the mitigating circumstances. The Whirling Fury is chaotic by nature, after all, so they're less likely to severely punish offenders who are merely in technical violation.
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Though Zotzilaha is a god, the aspect is not, it is a Chaotic Evil Outsider. And as far as the description of the Whirling Fury
Enemies and Allies: The Church opposes "all" who would traffic with demons and who wuld seek to allow demons and their influence to extend into the Material Plane. "Evil Religions," cabals of conjurers, and demon cultists are view with equal contempt... (Dragon Magazine 348, pg68)
Therefore I'm under the impression that associating or accepting gifts from evil gods or their aspects is just as bad as dealing with their lesser minions.
Rules lawyering aside, I maintain that the Whirling Fury does not care about irrelevant dying gods on some backwater Prime, at least not to the extent that they care about demon lords that threaten every plane in the cosmos simultaneously. Zotzilaha has a few dozen Olman followers, and they're all extremely low-level. If it was really urgent, the PCs could arrange the extermination of his entire pantheon in an idle afternoon, at least if you subscribe to the worshipers-equals-power premise that appears to be the default assumption.
I maintain that Zotzilaha's heyday is so far in the past that any criticism of the PCs based on interaction with him is based on a static law code rather than being relevant to actual good and evil as the effects of a particular situation. Ultimately, the PC traded a trinket to a dying god in exchange for powerful untainted magic, and all that dying god got was its security doll back, so it can clutch it as it cries itself to sleep at night, wishing that it could have its glory days back.
I maintain that Zotzilaha's heyday is so far in the past that any criticism of the PCs based on interaction with him is based on a static law code rather than being relevant to actual good and evil as the effects of a particular situation. Ultimately, the PC traded a trinket to a dying god in exchange for powerful untainted magic, and all that dying god got was its security doll back, so it can clutch it as it cries itself to sleep at night, wishing that it could have its glory days back.
You've got a point there.
Plus, just being a CE outsider doesn't make something a Demon, it has to have the "Tanar'ri" subtype for that... the aspect is just an outsider which is CE, like a Lillend (CG outsider) isn't an Eladrin.