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Okay, yesterday I attended a lecture/performance by Zinse Agginie, an African percusionist and storyteller from Ghana. During the question and answer period he gave a very profound answer to a very dumb question. When asked if he had ever been part of a tribe, he replied with this answer. "We are ll part of a tribe," he said. "A tribe is a group of people who share the same language, the same culture, and the same way of life. Whether we know it or not, everyone is a member of a tribe."
That answer stuck with me and it began to open my eyes to some things. We as Paozians share a common culture in gaming, therefore we are a tribe. The members of my church are a tribe, because we have a common culture, and a shared languge that others may not understand. Even political parties are tribes, although they also have several smaller tribes within them. This explains why people get so defensive and upset when discussing politics. They see any comment that is contrary to their veiwpoint is not just an attack on their ideas, but is a threat to their tribe. Therefore the tribe must be defended at all cost. I know that as a result, I will never approach political discussions the same way again.
Okay, yesterday I attended a lecture/performance by Zinse Agginie, an African percusionist and storyteller from Ghana. During the question and answer period he gave a very profound answer to a very dumb question. When asked if he had ever been part of a tribe, he replied with this answer. "We are ll part of a tribe," he said. "A tribe is a group of people who share the same language, the same culture, and the same way of life. Whether we know it or not, everyone is a member of a tribe."
That answer stuck with me and it began to open my eyes to some things. We as Paozians share a common culture in gaming, therefore we are a tribe. The members of my church are a tribe, because we have a common culture, and a shared languge that others may not understand. Even political parties are tribes, although they also have several smaller tribes within them. This explains why people get so defensive and upset when discussing politics. They see any comment that is contrary to their veiwpoint is not just an attack on their ideas, but is a threat to their tribe. Therefore the tribe must be defended at all cost. I know that as a result, I will never approach political discussions the same way again.
I was just discussing something similar to this with my class the other day. I was mentioning that there was a time when nations and artificial borders didn't exist. People identified with each other by the language they spoke.
Thanks for this post. You've given me some interesting ideas to mull over for today's discussion on culture.
I agree with this. In each group I am a member of, I ask myself, on what terms am I a member of that group. If I violate those terms by bringing in something that causes disharmony, however good-natured my intentions, I've done harm to the group.
I see the Off-Topic forum as the Thunderdome of Paizo and the one place that breaks the rules. If you enter these threads, you're on your own. But that still doesn't give people the right to violate the terms of use.
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As I thought more about this I realized that Europe is a prime example of how tribal identity has become national identity and in many cases political identity as well. Most States in Europe are named for the dominate tribe or confederation of tribes that lived in the region. Therefore the region dominated by the Germanic tribes became Germany, the Franks created France, and so forth.
I have always used the term tribe in such a way, and I'm fiercely loyal to what I perceive to be my tribe. Although I use it in the same way David does, I also sometimes use the term to describe a sort of psychic tribe, not people who share my culture, hobbies and language so much as people who share the same ethics, strengths, flaws and goals in life. Those who share a similar psychic make-up.
As far as war tribes go (Now the following delineations are not true for everyone):
If aliens attacked the Earth we'd all, in a sense palpably become a single tribe in our defense. Short of that, our tribe is sometimes our race (for some) or nation. Short of that, in the US say, our tribe is our state verus those other either dumb or uppity states. Short of that our tribe is our country/city county way of life versus the city/country way of life. Short of that our tribe is our high school football team versus the next town over's high school football team. Short of that our tribe, while in high school, may be grade versus grade... ala hazing. Short of that our tribe is us and anyone else who hate Shawn Regan, that dumb piece of $%@&!
But then the aliens attack and we throw a gun to Shawn Regan, ally with the Ardsley high school football team, form a meeting place in the burbs for country folks and city folk to gather, wait for a centralized voice to lead us, then a more centralized voice, then a world centralized voice... then we go blast the Orionites (who look ever so terribly like Shawn Regan).
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 8
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As I thought more about this I realized that Europe is a prime example of how tribal identity has become national identity and in many cases political identity as well. Most States in Europe are named for the dominate tribe or confederation of tribes that lived in the region. Therefore the region dominated by the Germanic tribes became Germany, the Franks created France, and so forth.
Did the Franks create France or did France create the Franks? I thought I remembered that there was some historical debate (going back to the revolution even) about the extent to which the Franks were the main cultural group and how much historical revisionism was going on even then.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 8
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This is completely serious.
Cool. Sounds like intersectionality theory without the $10 words.
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Short of that, in the US say, our tribe is our state versus those other either dumb or uppity states.
You mean those states that aren't Texas? :)
Texan's are particularly passionate about their tribal identity as Texans, more so than a lot of states. You don't normally hear people going on and on about how they're "North Dakotan", for instance. Much of this has to do with the state's unique history in relation to the rest of the nation, but some of it has to do with the denizens of the other 49 using "Texas" as some sort of pejorative shorthand for "intolerant" or "ignorant". We get a bit defensive, especially us in Houston, as we are pretty much a "live and let live" individualist lot down here.
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As I thought more about this I realized that Europe is a prime example of how tribal identity has become national identity and in many cases political identity as well. Most States in Europe are named for the dominate tribe or confederation of tribes that lived in the region. Therefore the region dominated by the Germanic tribes became Germany, the Franks created France, and so forth.Did the Franks create France or did France create the Franks? I thought I remembered that there was some historical debate (going back to the revolution even) about the extent to which the Franks were the main cultural group and how much historical revisionism was going on even then.
To further cloud the water, Franks are a GERMANIC tribe who moved in and conquered the native Gauls and Roman settlers. :)
Tribal identity is hard...
We get a bit defensive, especially us in Houston, as we are pretty much a "live and let live" individualist lot down here.
You Houstonians are batty!
<fweep fweep>
Can I get a Zork reference amen?!
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As I thought more about this I realized that Europe is a prime example of how tribal identity has become national identity and in many cases political identity as well. Most States in Europe are named for the dominate tribe or confederation of tribes that lived in the region. Therefore the region dominated by the Germanic tribes became Germany, the Franks created France, and so forth.Did the Franks create France or did France create the Franks? I thought I remembered that there was some historical debate (going back to the revolution even) about the extent to which the Franks were the main cultural group and how much historical revisionism was going on even then.
Since Clovis, king of the Franks, predates the country of France by several hundred years, historically speaking, I'd say that that the Franks created France. There are many historical documents that date to Clovis' time that name him as king of the Franks so revisionism plays a very small part of his story.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 8
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Since Clovis, king of the Franks, predates the country of France by several hundred years, historically speaking, I'd say that that the Franks created France. There are many historical documents that date to Clovis' time that name him as king of the Franks so revisionism plays a very small part of his story.As I thought more about this I realized that Europe is a prime example of how tribal identity has become national identity and in many cases political identity as well. Most States in Europe are named for the dominate tribe or confederation of tribes that lived in the region. Therefore the region dominated by the Germanic tribes became Germany, the Franks created France, and so forth.Did the Franks create France or did France create the Franks? I thought I remembered that there was some historical debate (going back to the revolution even) about the extent to which the Franks were the main cultural group and how much historical revisionism was going on even then.
[b$%++*#&]
Usually nations do some work in inventing their history though. I've read that only an imperceptible minority of French were actually of Frankish origin and, yet, in much of the French nationalist discourse, their has been a mythologizing of the Franks. Most nations do this, as you suggested in your original post ... they invent themselves as a tribe as, when it comes to anything large enough to become called a nation, they were invariably not one.
[/b~%!&!~!]
As I thought more about this I realized that Europe is a prime example of how tribal identity has become national identity and in many cases political identity as well. Most States in Europe are named for the dominate tribe or confederation of tribes that lived in the region. Therefore the region dominated by the Germanic tribes became Germany, the Franks created France, and so forth.Did the Franks create France or did France create the Franks? I thought I remembered that there was some historical debate (going back to the revolution even) about the extent to which the Franks were the main cultural group and how much historical revisionism was going on even then.
There definitely were other people active there, like Bretons and Aquitanians, and for quite a while Provence was in many ways a separate entity from Ile de France (sp?) where Paris is located...
And of course during feudal times the role of king, and unified nation, varied a lot over the years.One should also point out that borders and national identity were still rather fluid things when Holy Roman Empire was big, and nation state of France got more definite identity only during 100 Year War.