[Paizo staff: feel free to move this if you think this is in an inappropriate forum!]
Ok, fellow Mac users (PC users hit the back button and leave this thread...just kidding), I think I'm ready to start printing out portions of these lovely Paizo (et al) pdfs. Only one problem: I don't have a printer :) That's where you come in (hopefully). What Mac-compatible printers are you using to print out your pdfs (that's assuredly 90% of what I'd use it for)? I had looked into this about a year ago and got worried reading about problems printing pdfs w/ True Type fonts (IIRC).
My needs are simple: print double-sided pdfs. Yeah, nothing fancy. I have a G4 (866 mhz), aka a dinosaur. I'll probably get a sweet new Imac this winter. Anyway, I don't want a cheap printer, but I don't necessarily want what you have in your office either. A good mid-range printer that you know from experience works w/ a (your?) Mac!
I think a few of the Paizo staff are Mac-people, so feel free to chime in as well. Thanks in advance for any and all suggestions (well, except for those "Get a PC, fool!" flames I can already feel coming...).
I have an iMac (I love it!). I have an Epson R260. It cost me $90 and it works great. I'm a professional photographer and illustrator - while I still get prints made at the lab, this printer produces great photo quality prints. I haven't had any problems printing out the PDF's and they look great. A lot of my photographer friends also seem to have Epson printers (and Macs of course).
I have an iMac (I love it!). I have an Epson R260. It cost me $90 and it works great. I'm a professional photographer and illustrator - while I still get prints made at the lab, this printer produces great photo quality prints. A lot of my photographer friends also seem to have Epson printers (and Macs of course).
Thanks for the prompt response. $90?! Crap, that's nothing. I'd be willing to spend a lot more than that, and again, I only want to print out nice pdfs. I'm assuming a few things: it's an ink-jet, and b/w. Have you heard about issues w/ Mac printers and pdfs? Maybe that's just cyber folklore :)
EDITED: b/c I think you did the same to mention printing pdfs. Sweet!
Epson has higher priced printers of course, but the R260 should work fine. It's color inkjet, with separate ink cartriges for each color. I just printed out the Kobold Quarterly #1 PDF and it looks great.
I run both a mac and a pc, thank you very much
heh
I cant do it now what with it being late but tomorrow I will try to rmember to plug my $20 lexmark into my mac and test it.
I printed out some stuff yesterday off my pc and was suprised at how fantastic it looks
it was my sister in laws bday and my fiance made a card with Disney stuff on it, and it looks exactly like it should. And you know how Disney stuff is crammed full of color. I was suprised at how well it printed and the paper didnt feel soaked with ink when it came out
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If you're only going to be using it every once in a while, I'd strongly consider getting a color laser rather than an inkjet. The inkjet will be much cheaper initially, but every inkjet I've tried tends to clog if it's not used regularly. (I've heard exactly the same complaint from other inkjet users.) Sometimes the clog can only be fixed by replacing the print head, which rapidly increases the effective cost of the printer. Note that color laser prices have dropped precipitously; I've seen them for under $300 new. An additional upside is that the color laser will print much faster.
The biggest downside to lasers is that their color quality is lower than that of inkjets; this is particularly noticeable in artwork and photos.
HTH
If you're only going to be using it every once in a while, I'd strongly consider getting a color laser rather than an inkjet. The inkjet will be much cheaper initially, but every inkjet I've tried tends to clog if it's not used regularly. (I've heard exactly the same complaint from other inkjet users.) Sometimes the clog can only be fixed by replacing the print head, which rapidly increases the effective cost of the printer. Note that color laser prices have dropped precipitously; I've seen them for under $300 new. An additional upside is that the color laser will print much faster.
The biggest downside to lasers is that their color quality is lower than that of inkjets; this is particularly noticeable in artwork and photos.
HTH
Hmmm. This might complicate my decision. I expect I'd use my new printer like crazy when I first purchase it, but after I've cleared out the backlog of pdfs, I might slow down. The flip side is that I wouldn't mind the occasional pictures looking as nice as possible, though I could live w/ reduced clarity.
Doug, do you actually use a color laser printer w/ your Mac, and if so, what do you have?
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Sorry, I don't use a Mac these days. (I have in the past.)
Some context for my experience: I bought a color inkjet to use for printing out digital photographs. The results with photo paper are absolutely gorgeous, far better than I've seen with color laser printers. But I tend to take and print pictures in batches separated (sometimes) by months. Every time I went to print after not printing for a while, I had to either run the head-cleaning routine many times (many) or I had to replace the print head assembly. The printer was very cheap, but the ink and print heads rapidly raised the cost. Now I'm getting my photos printed professionally and using a laser for everything else.
I've been looking at color lasers for much the same reason as you have been. Toner cartridges are expensive -- replacing a full set of toner cartridges isn't quite as expensive as replacing the whole printer. But I'm told that the replacement cartridges come with quite a bit more toner than the cartridges sold originally.
I'm not thrilled with the tradeoff, but I'm willing to make it.
If you're only going to be using it every once in a while, I'd strongly consider getting a color laser rather than an inkjet. The inkjet will be much cheaper initially, but every inkjet I've tried tends to clog if it's not used regularly. (I've heard exactly the same complaint from other inkjet users.) Sometimes the clog can only be fixed by replacing the print head, which rapidly increases the effective cost of the printer. Note that color laser prices have dropped precipitously; I've seen them for under $300 new. An additional upside is that the color laser will print much faster.
The biggest downside to lasers is that their color quality is lower than that of inkjets; this is particularly noticeable in artwork and photos.
HTH
I would agree completely with Doug. I have an 867MHz G4 with Mac OS 10.2.8 and am also hoping to upgrade to a new iMac soon :)
I had an inkjet but only printed color once or twice a month - ended up replacing dried out ink cartridges ($20-35) every few print jobs. Upgraded to a color laser printer with higher upfront cost but lower cost over time because haven't had to replace the toner in 4 years. I have an older color HP laser, most HP's work with Macs but not all, double check before you buy. What version OS 10 do you have? Not all new printers will work with less than 10.3 - again, double check the box. If you are buying a new Mac for sure soon, it will have OS 10.5 (releasing in Oct sometime) and you might want a make of printer that will update their drivers to match - check the company's website before you buy to see if they have announced support.
I've been happy with the quality of color prints, though like Doug says they aren't as good as inkjet (think of color business brochures you might get as an advertisement). If you have high standards, get the sales guy to print out test pages for you on the models you're considering. The newer HP color lasers are smaller than my beast and go for around $300 for basic, $400 for network capable.
Good luck!
Thanks for the continued feedback, everyone. I think I'm leaning towards the color laser printer now. A good in-store test would be to log in to Paizo, go to My Account page, and then download the 1st few pages of an issue of Pathfinder or a GM module, to see how the pdfs look in general, and the occasional color drawings in particular.
I forgot the newest OS isn't out until sometime this month. Maybe I should hold off until it's out and then buy the Imac, assuming it's not already pre-loaded w/ it. The trick will be finding a Mac store w/ a good selection of printers. I've got a few options in town here.
You will go through ink with the inkjet, that's for sure. The art will suffer with the laser printer.
Using a Mac to print is easier than with a PC. Macs have been the industry standard in printing & graphics for a generation. Usually, all you have to do is plug in your printer, and your Mac will automatically detect what version and which driver you should use (since you have an older mac you might actually have to install the driver from the CD that comes with your new printer). All you have to do is open a given application/file and hit Command (aka the Apple key) + P.
That's weird, my last post has gone missing. I mentioned a particular color laser printer I was thinking about...can anyone else see that post?
MacBooks should receive a speed bump the first or second week of November as well, if not sooner, FWIW.
Rez
Ahh. I wondered why Staples has instock MacBooks on sale $200 off.
That's weird, my last post has gone missing. I mentioned a particular color laser printer I was thinking about...can anyone else see that post?
Nope. Must have been chewed up.
Thanks everyone for the continued advice. My missing post mentioned a Xerox Phaser 6120/N color laserjet for $299. And now I know when OSX 10.5 is coming out. I can easily wait a few weeks for a new computer.
Kobold Press
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I had looked into this about a year ago and got worried reading about problems printing pdfs w/ True Type fonts (IIRC).
I've had a KQ author complain about printing out the PDF on a Mac and getting some of the headline characters "piled up" on top of each other.
Obviously, I can't reproduce the issue on my PC, so I ask the Mac geniuses: is this a common problem related to TT fonts? Is there any fix for it in the PDF format?
I had looked into this about a year ago and got worried reading about problems printing pdfs w/ True Type fonts (IIRC).I've had a KQ author complain about printing out the PDF on a Mac and getting some of the headline characters "piled up" on top of each other.
Obviously, I can't reproduce the issue on my PC, so I ask the Mac geniuses: is this a common problem related to TT fonts? Is there any fix for it in the PDF format?
At last! I knew this wasn't just cyber-folklore. The last time I thought about getting a printer for my Mac, w/ the idea of printing pdfs, this came up (not on these boards). I thought I'd be reasonably getting a printer specifically compatible for a Mac, but maybe not.
I had looked into this about a year ago and got worried reading about problems printing pdfs w/ True Type fonts (IIRC).I've had a KQ author complain about printing out the PDF on a Mac and getting some of the headline characters "piled up" on top of each other.
Obviously, I can't reproduce the issue on my PC, so I ask the Mac geniuses: is this a common problem related to TT fonts? Is there any fix for it in the PDF format?
I hate fonts. I don't understand them. At all. So I take a simple approach. One suggestion is to choose "Print as image" from the Advanced option after choosing Print in Acrobat (File -> Print -> Advanced -> Print as image). Its not the best cause it doesn't let you know why the problem is happening, but hey, if it gets the job done...
Adobe gives the following advice. But I don't think it often helps. :(
My understanding is that these problems can arise from any point in the pdf supply chain from pdf creation, download, reading, and printing. Maybe someone with some publishing experience and Macs can be more helpful.
Edit - Printing as an image can take a looong time.
Chief Technical Officer
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I've had a KQ author complain about printing out the PDF on a Mac and getting some of the headline characters "piled up" on top of each other.
Obviously, I can't reproduce the issue on my PC, so I ask the Mac geniuses: is this a common problem related to TT fonts? Is there any fix for it in the PDF format?
My guess would be he needs to update his Adobe Reader.
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Chief Technical Officer
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My needs are simple: print double-sided pdfs.
I think most of the discussion has missed this point. Double-sided ("Duplex") printing, regardless of platform, can be easy or a giant pain.
If you want it to be super easy, you'll want a printer with a duplexing unit—basically an internal mechanism that takes each sheet after it's printed on one side and puts it through again with the other side up. These aren't cheap, but they're super convenient—you just tell your printer to print duplexed, and it does. (On the plus side, because they're so easy to use, you'll probably use this feature more often, so you'll save paper.)
On the other end of the spectrum, there are printers that don't know anything about duplexing, and you'll have to go through hoops sending just the odd pages to the printer, then flipping the stack and sending them through the printer again, this time printing just the even pages, and in reverse order so that page 2 is on the back of the first page and not the last page. (Oh, and if the document has an odd number of pages, you have to leave out the last page when you put the stack back. Or something like that.)
In the middle are printers that offer "manual duplexing." (I know a lot of HP printers offer this.) These printers will automatically print just the odd pages, then tell you to flip the stack and click ok, and then they'll print the even pages properly paired with the appropriate odd pages. It's easier than the second method by a lot, and cheaper than the first method by a lot, so it might be the way to go.
Vic, thanks so much. You've clarified the issue for me now. I'm a little spoiled at work w/ our printers, but at the very least I'll try and get a "manual duplexing" printer. If I think the price is agreeable, then I'll just go whole hog for option 1 instead.
As for the font issue, I'll have to hope for the best. Daeglin, thanks for the Adobe tip as well. I'll keep that trick in mind if I do have a font issue.
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Chief Technical Officer
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I disagree about the complexity of this...
Once you figure out how to feed the printer correctly so that up is up and the pages print in the correct odd/even arrangement it's no trouble and much cheaper than a duplexing printer.
Don't get me wrong—I'm not saying it's rocket science, but it *is* a process that involves doing at least two print jobs with two different print configurations, and if you forget to click the right buttons in either one of them, you've wasted your time, your paper, and your toner.
The manual duplexing feature totally eliminates having to think about it. And it doesn't add significantly to the cost of the printer, because it's not hardware—it's essentially a driver enhancement. I'm just saying that if BenS has the choice between two similar printers and one has manual duplexing, I know which one I'd suggest...
Actually, what I've found to be a greater problem is that sometimes when lasers feed a sheet that has already printed on one side back through the system the re-heating causes some of the first side to peel off as the second side is printed.
FWIW,
Rez
D'oh! Wouldn't that just be a smack to the face, if I spent all this money on a nice laser printer, that was set up for manual duplexing and then...that. I'd just have to hope it was an infrequent occurrence at best.
And Vic, you've convinced me on the "manual printing" option, if I can get it. If the printer has an actual duplexing (hardware) unit inside it for not much more money, I'll do that instead.
I'm glad I started this thread. I've learned a lot more than I knew coming in to it...so thanks to everyone who's contributed.
While I'm looking forward to OS 10.5, for some reason web countdowns seem a little ominous to me now...
Sorry to resurrect this thread, but I need to clarify something I mentioned earlier. It's not TrueType fonts that can be a problem w/ Mac printers, it's that some Mac printers don't support (?) PostScript fonts. That's why printing out pdfs can be wonky sometimes for Mac users. So I guess I need to figure out if a printer I'm considering has PostScript support (if I'm using the right terminology).
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Chief Technical Officer
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Sorry to resurrect this thread, but I need to clarify something I mentioned earlier. It's not TrueType fonts that can be a problem w/ Mac printers, it's that some Mac printers don't support (?) PostScript fonts. That's why printing out pdfs can be wonky sometimes for Mac users. So I guess I need to figure out if a printer I'm considering has PostScript support (if I'm using the right terminology).
Long ago—way back in the 20th century—people had to consider font types when they purchased printers. This is thankfully no longer true. Just make sure the printer says it's compatible with OS X. The OS and the printer driver will do the rest. (And in my experience, Macs print PDFs *more* reliably than Windows, as long as you're using current software.)
Sorry to resurrect this thread, but I need to clarify something I mentioned earlier. It's not TrueType fonts that can be a problem w/ Mac printers, it's that some Mac printers don't support (?) PostScript fonts. That's why printing out pdfs can be wonky sometimes for Mac users. So I guess I need to figure out if a printer I'm considering has PostScript support (if I'm using the right terminology).Long ago—way back in the 20th century—people had to consider font types when they purchased printers. This is thankfully no longer true. Just make sure the printer says it's compatible with OS X. The OS and the printer driver will do the rest. (And in my experience, Macs print PDFs *more* reliably than Windows, as long as you're using current software.)
Well, I'll take your word for it Vic. Thanks for the response. My quote above about the PostScript problem was from research I did a year or two ago, but it's possible it was based on still older information. I'll just bite the bullet and get a printer sold in my local Mac store.
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I'll just bite the bullet and get a printer sold in my local Mac store.
Getting back to your original request, auto-duplexing by the printer isn't so hard to find anymore. I bought a Canon PIXMA iP4300 for a Mac a few months ago; it cost about $100, does great color printing, and will handle the duplexing for you.
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Sorry to resurrect this thread, but I need to clarify something I mentioned earlier. It's not TrueType fonts that can be a problem w/ Mac printers, it's that some Mac printers don't support (?) PostScript fonts. That's why printing out pdfs can be wonky sometimes for Mac users. So I guess I need to figure out if a printer I'm considering has PostScript support (if I'm using the right terminology).
I have been using Macs and Windows for over 10 years now and have never had a problem with any PDF with my mac. I would use Macs 100% of the time if I could, but work it seems is still lagging in the previous century.
In all honesty I would expect it to be a user error rather than a mac problem.
I'll just bite the bullet and get a printer sold in my local Mac store.Getting back to your original request, auto-duplexing by the printer isn't so hard to find anymore. I bought a Canon PIXMA iP4300 for a Mac a few months ago; it cost about $100, does great color printing, and will handle the duplexing for you.
Occam, my only concern w/ an ink-jet printer at this point is replacing toner cartridges more often than I'd be comfortable w/. That said, a good duplexing component is key to the purchase, b/c again, I'd mainly use it for printing pdfs. So a higher up-front cost might work better for me, than a lower-cost printer right out of the gate. Still, nothing's set in stone. If I can see a demo in the Mac store that satisfied me, I could get most anything.
I know I didn't point this out before, but Apple invented TrueType. You're right, the problem was PostScript.
I say was because now it's basically a non-issue. As stated above, any OSX printer will be fine with all fonts.
Rez
Thanks, you and Vic have set my mind at ease on this point!
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Ink = Photo Color Quality.
Laser = Lower Cost Bulk Printing.
I sold printers for eight years.. wasn't very fun. So much fun I quit and I'm now selling books. :)
Anyway.. don't worry so much about duplexing. Whether it can automatically print on the back of the page is irrelevant really. Most printers have 2 sided printing as a software option. This means it'll print 1,3,5,7,9, etc. (one side of the page) then prompt you to reload the paper and print 2,4,6,8, etc. Not really that big of a deal (and it's actually faster this way.)
Inkjets won't have a problem with two sided printing but many laser printers do because they're dirty printers. What that means is tone builds up inside the drum and when you run a clean piece of paper through the printer, it comes out gray instead of white. It's not enough to notice it, but run that piece of paper through a second time (say for two sided printing) and now you'll notice it now.
SO, if you do decide to go laser, make sure the model advertises two sided printing. Almost every printer can do it, but only the ones that list it as a feature are made to do it.
BTW.. back when the AD&D stuff started coming out in PDF, I printed and coil bound three 500 page custom books of Forgotten Realms PDFs I used often and didn't want to carry the originals around of anymore. It was good times. :)
(an excellent insider's perspective to the duplexing issue)
Thank you for that.