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The party's ranger selects Humanoid (goblinoid) as his favored enemy race. For many adventures he his happy because goblins are plentiful and +2 to damage is sweet. And then one night, rounding a corner in a dungeon, he sees a barghest in goblin form. Does he:
A) Retain his damage bonus against the barghest because he thinks it's a goblin, even if it changes form, because maybe this is some sort of goblin lyncanthrope or goblinoid he's never encountered.
B) Retain his damage bonus as long as the barghest stays in goblin form. If and when it changes, he realizes that this isn't a goblin, is confused, and, no longer knowing how to fight it as effectively, loses his bonuses against it.
C) When he first spots it, and at any point appropriate, he (or an associate) makes a Knowledge (Nature) or Knowledge (the Planes) check. If successful, the behavior of the creature seems odd and ungoblin-like, or recognized as characteristic of a barghest. The ranger gets no damage bonus because this isn't a goblin- he is more perplexed than enraged. If the save fails, either choice A or B occur.
D) As C on a successful Knowledge check, but the ranger is incensed that this abomination would take the form of the murderous vermin who killed his family when he was a child, and in his fury retains the +2 bonus to damage. The bonuses to Bluff, Sense Motive, etc, are not retained because the creature is fundamentally different than a goblin.
E) A barghest isn't a goblinoid, so there are no bonuses. Period. End of story.
As a DM I prefer to keeps things more entertaining from roleplaying and cinematic perspectives rather than doggedly sticking straight to game mechanics, so I'd be most inclined to go with C or D on a successful check, and either A or B on a failed check, in all cases depending on how the player roleplays the character's reaction. E, while most likely keeping with the actual rules, seems dull and unattractive.
Is there an official ruling on this that I missed somewhere? What would you do as a DM? Which seems most fair to the player?
I think i'd go with E. It's not a goblin, the ranger doesn't get his bonus, and he knows he's not getting it, but he doesn't automatically know why. He knows it looks like a goblin, maybe smells like a goblin, but its instinctive movements aren't right, it doesn't respond to him as he knows his favored enemy should, its vital spots don't seem to be so vital. Player pissed off and confused? Good, so is the character.
I would consider the ranger being aware that he's not getting his bonus as a sign of how well he knows his favored enemy. The barghest can't "fool" him even if its to his advantage in terms of damage to be fooled. He knows its not a goblin, and then the Knowledge check would be the tool to correctly id it as a barghest. I might allow Knowledge (nature) since its something pretending to be his favored enemy (and its likely to be a higher skill for the ranger rather than Knowledge (dungeoneering) or (the planes).
I'd agree with E as well. The ranger swings at it, and realizes that the way it moves, the way it studies his attacks and reacts to them, lets him know there is something different about this creature. It looks like a goblin, but it doesn't move or fight quite like one.
Its a subtle hint to him (okay, not too subtle) that something is going on, even if he can't put all the pieces together.
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I'd agree with E as well. The ranger swings at it, and realizes that the way it moves, the way it studies his attacks and reacts to them, lets him know there is something different about this creature. It looks like a goblin, but it doesn't move or fight quite like one.
Its a subtle hint to him (okay, not too subtle) that something is going on, even if he can't put all the pieces together.
A huge problem I have with E is the "not too subtle". There are all kinds of reasons that a real goblin might be acting kooky. With the big hint, right away the player knows this is no goblin. If I'm actually raising CRs of all the Sense Motive, Bluff, blah blahs to adjust for the numbers that the player is telling me he's scored on his skill checks then the ruse is kept, at least for a little while. Maybe when he keeps nailing high numbers on his rolls and there's little actual success he steps back and says "Hmmm... Rotten? Denmark? Got it." The skill checks are much easier to deal with than the damage bonus.
Say our ranger is going to attack the "goblin" and expecting to tack on that extra damage. I interpret that bonus to damage as rage, not precision, in his attacks (if he knew the right places to hit the favored enemy I would expect him to have a bonus on To Hit rolls rather than damage). If he's failed every other way to guess this isn't a regular goblin, it makes no sense from a storyteller's perspective to say, "Sorry, Buckley just isn't getting as angry at this goblin as he usually does when he sees the little critters." On the other hand, if the damage bonus is based on a knowledge of anatomy, then yes, I'd agree that he shouldn't get the extra damage in any case.
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When I throw illusions against a party or have a situation similar to yours I let the PCs believe what they want but I keep the stats for the NPCs accurate. In your Barghest case I'd let the Ranger think he has his +2 to damage but I sure as heck wouldn't be taking those extra 2 HPs away from the Barghest -- The Ranger says he hits for 13 and I nod and subtract 11. The Barghest is just as good at looking like a goblin (I feel) as the Ranger is at detecting them.
Granted, at higher levels the PCs are more savvy than at low or mid levels so I give a few appropriate hints as conundrums for what the PCs see and what they think they know.
-W. E. Ray
RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
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I agree with option 'E' and I think Molech covered the way to handle it nicely:
In your Barghest case I'd let the Ranger think he has his +2 to damage but I sure as heck wouldn't be taking those extra 2 HPs away from the Barghest -- The Ranger says he hits for 13 and I nod and subtract 11. The Barghest is just as good at looking like a goblin (I feel) as the Ranger is at detecting them.I also think that a big part of your problem lies in your interpretation of the ability:
I interpret that bonus to damage as rage, not precision, in his attacks (if he knew the right places to hit the favored enemy I would expect him to have a bonus on To Hit rolls rather than damage). If he's failed every other way to guess this isn't a regular goblin, it makes no sense from a storyteller's perspective to say, "Sorry, Buckley just isn't getting as angry at this goblin as he usually does when he sees the little critters." On the other hand, if the damage bonus is based on a knowledge of anatomy, then yes, I'd agree that he shouldn't get the extra damage in any case.
If the reasoning behind the extra damage was rage, then why does the ranger also gain bonuses on Track, Sense Motive, and all that other stuff? It doesn't make sense from that angle. The favored enemy bonus is supposed to represent a heightened familiarity with the creature's anatomy and tactics. As for why it doesn't apply a bonus on To-Hit rolls, well... just because you know that shooting someone in the head is more lethal doesn't make their head any easier to hit, does it? The combat system for D&D is abstract and thus makes exact explanations a little problematic. The damage bonus could come from any number of things. Maybe the ranger sharpens his sword in a certain way to improve it's grip on goblin flesh. Maybe his arrows have special tips that twist just right inside the goblin's body. It could be 100 different things, but I think explaining it as simple anger is a little problematic. Think of it this way, what if a ranger has a 'hunter' concept and takes favored enemy 'animals.' Do you interpret it as "Man, I hate deer! I hate them so much! I'm gonna kill all the deer in this forest!"? I doubt it.
Just my 2 coppers.
I would say E.
I let rangers make untrained knowledge checks related to their favored enemy. In this case he'd roll a knowledge local to see if he thought it was goblin. If he made a DC 10 check I'd tell him, "You are sure it is not really a goblin." To know what it is he'd have to have favored enemy evil outsider or knowledge the planes to have a chance.
I'd say it was closer to B than anything. Well, specifically for shapechange.
When you shapechange, you turn into that creature. Adapting all benefits and weaknesses of that creature.
I take the Favored Enemy bonus to represent knowledge of the strengths and weaknesses of that creature.
So, in my (perhaps lonely) little world of interpretation, the Favored Enemy bonus would work against someone who has changed into that form.
When it comes to illusions of said form, I would expect a Ranger to be able to figure out that it is an illusion - unless the illusion creator is intimately familiar with the creature - because it "just isn't reacting right."
My view on it, anyway.