RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32
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Well, I'm back from a few weeks holiday and looking forward to DM-ing again. The group are out of Parrot Island and really, really want to get Vanthus now, after his cheeky yet bloodthirsty murder of their pet otter, Big Jim.
The thing is, I'm not 100% about how to run it. The group are all top strategists and used to playing tactically with minis while I've always been more of a loose, story and action over how many squares you can move kind of DM. I'm rapidly learning not to give away AoO's and so on, but I really want to get the Dragons doing hit and run, popping around the corner and squuezing off shots etc. Thing is, the corridors are short and full of corners. It's a move action to come round the corner, a std action to shoot, then they're exposed til the next round.
How can I best make the Dragons sneaky buggers? How have you ran the thieves in their own turf?
I had some trouble here. All my players seemed to have AC 18+, and the Lotus Dragons could simply not hit that reliably. So after the initial skirmishes, I had the Lotus Dragons break open the treasury and distribute Tanglefoot Bags and Alchemist's Fire to all the rank-and-file. The Tanglefoot Bags are probably particularly useful for your needs, since one of them entangles one PC and the other two throw an Alchemist's Fire and then all three run back. If the other PCs tear off after these three, another three approach the entangled PC from behind.
Keep in mind a few factors before pimping out the mook Lotus Dragons.
First, they have knowledge of the terrain as well as at least some idea of thier resources. (Such as the first replier's post regarding tanglefoot bags and alchemists' fire.) Once the alarm is spread, the LD's are of at least average intelligence.
They will want to funnel the PC's into thier positions, not aggress the invaders. This means hiding in flanking positions, taking cover behind overturned tables, using a stealthy scout-and-recon approach if the PCs should happen to actually be making minimal noise. They will definitely harrass the party, denying them rest. They will coordinate movements to envelope any room the PCs happen to be barricaded in from as many directions as possible to arrive at or almost at (within a round of each other) the same time. They know full well that thier strengths are in stealth and ganging up (flanking), not to mention touch-AC based attacks (tanglefoot bags and alchemists fire). They also have no compunctions about withdrawing to prepared positions if possible. Lastly, check out the shadowy illumination advantages. They can make Hide checks within it to achieve sneak attacks on the light bearers. Unless the entire party has darkvision (doubtful), they are reliant upon some kind of illumination. The LD's know thier hideout pretty well, so I suspect they would move quickly to extinguish and remove light sources from some areas, given the time.
Rowyn is also likely to keep tabs on the characters covertly, from a distance, in order to assess what she can of thier strengths and tactics. If she can, I suspect she would retrieve Cruncher to her chambers and batten down behind the rhagodessa guard post. If the alarm sounds quickly, she will outline the above to her minions and see if the would-be heroes are of sufficient mettle to deal with her defenses.
While it depends on a lot of situationals, the gist of it is to bone up on basic group tactics. No rogue in thier right mind fights in a 5ft wide passageway, unless able to take advantage of shadowy illumination to take a cheap shot. Or hide behind an overturned table in shadowy illumination and drill hapless PC's who enter bright illumination while the LD's themselves are still comfortably ensconsced within shadowy illumination.
Being, I believe, largely human, of course means they will (given thier inexperience) fail to take into account low-light vision's enhanced benefit from light sources, although if any survive to spread the information from an initial encounter with the party where this was a factor, they will inform thier fellows of the need to adjust thier tactics.
Intelligent bad guys can and will adapt - if they survive. Sleep spells tend to be pretty harsh on first level rogues ...
The Lotus Dragons are a sideshow and teaser for the fight with Rowyn herself. As long as they give the impression of putting up a decent fight and have your players on their toes, they have done their job. If you outfit them strongly, there is a big risk the players will have to regroup before doing the final bit, which completely ruins the pacing of the story.
My impression too is that they are not necessarily supposed to be eliminated. And there is the other possibility--the pcs siding with them or working with them in some fashion.
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32
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Ah - now I'm confused. I've been reading about this for so long and don't want to mess it up. I remembered an older thread (Steve Greer in this thread) where he said that they should flee after 1/4 or so are defeated!
Right - the players are very good, and very tactical. They also have a few action points, so I can afford to be harsh. They don't have ridiculous equipment or anything - AC 14-18 at 3rd level, no more potions or items than they found in the adventure. If I have the thieves consistently flee, sneak back and throw nasty stuff it could be great fun. I'll just have to watch out for the 40' move of the two barbarians. Plenty of caltrops maybe :) And if half the thieves go for a war of attrition while the others fetch the rhagodessas it could get messy.
I'm sure the players will throw me somehow, but I'll try to be careful. At the minute they've lured the ixits outside the base and neutralized them for a while. When we finished last week they were sneaking through the first room - the waiting room, which is empty. The thieves suspect nothing and are not even in the area. We're playing Red Hand of Doom this week so I have another week.
Is it an idea to actually plan and carry out tactics with a map and minis?
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32
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That makes it a much more interesting battle :) Bad guys running away and regrouping will make a big change from the usual fanatical hordes! I almost have the idea that it's odd - too many CRPGs probably - all those years without a group.
We usually play on a map too (or whiteboard) - and for this I've had the summer holidays to blow up the pdf and make a massive colour map on card, then stick it on foamboard for extra coolness. I even got toy manta rays for the ixits :)
What I really need is practice running bad guys :) Do (or did) you ever map a bit out while preparing and try out tactics for the critters and NPCs? Would you suggest it as a good idea?
The Lotus Dragons are a sideshow and teaser for the fight with Rowyn herself. As long as they give the impression of putting up a decent fight and have your players on their toes, they have done their job. If you outfit them strongly, there is a big risk the players will have to regroup before doing the final bit, which completely ruins the pacing of the story.
I agree with your assesment Carl. Of course, if you have bone-headed players that permit the Lotus to prepare in advance (like mine have) of thier return engagement, I rather suspect the Lotus will become a much, much more difficult foe to beard in thier lair.
After all, they have several oh-so wonderful pets at thier disposal...
Hmmm, the Lotus Dragon hideout ?
to be honest, the entire Lotus Dragon compound was rather boring on the tactical side of things, since the group got entry without any forewarning and, by sheer conincidence, went straight for the barracks. A few good listen rolls later they hit the relaxing rogues at full (screaming ) tilt and drove the few fleeing survivors before them through the corridors, until everyone ended up in the torture chamber, which was the one big fight of the dungeon, but nothing to write home about... ( "Jet of Steam" hurts in close quarters )
After that ( a dozen Lotus Dragons put out of business ) it was simply a matter of mopping up the complex - judicious use of familliars (the rat proved excellent for this ) for recon, and several harsh intimidate checks later, all of the human LDs were fleeing or surrendering....
The only high points of thrill remaining were Rowyn, the kobold cook (who ended up in his own fireplace ) and the poor sun-starved worg.
And Rowyn really did not fare well against colour spray and suggestions.....
Yeah, they are a "sideshow", but in a way, they are there to give the PCs confidence and practise their teamwork. The opposition is nothing to write home about.. after all these guys are smugglers - likelier to slip off and restart business someplace else, then stand and fight for some weird cult or principle.
And the roleplaying in the LD-compound (searching through Rowyn's boudoir... or the taxidermist above..) .... ahhhh, now that was fun =)
. . . the kobold cook (who ended up in his own fireplace ) . . .
Nooooooo! Churtle!
I'm starting to wonder if we're the only group that spared her.
The group I'm DMing for fell in love with her and immediately offered her protection and a stipend if she would come work for them. She is a much beloved member of the crew now. (although, they are careful what they eat from her).
So - play them smart and sneaky, have them actually doing hit and run instead of hit-and-fight-to-the-death, and then when it's been long enough, have them run away leaving Rowyn and her lizard chum. Gotcha. Thanks very much!
If they survive long enough. My PCs would shrug off the initial ambush and before the LDs could escape, they would be cut down. It was a bad day to be a rogue.
. . . the kobold cook (who ended up in his own fireplace ) . . .
Nooooooo! Churtle!
I'm starting to wonder if we're the only group that spared her.
No way! One of the PCs in my group (a semi-misfit half-orc ranger) took her under his wing; she's the cook on the Sea Wyvern right now, and was only briefly suspected of arsenic poisoning earlier in the voyage.
. . . the kobold cook (who ended up in his own fireplace ) . . .
Nooooooo! Churtle!
I'm starting to wonder if we're the only group that spared her.
Funny thing about that ... the kobold monk (who got eaten) was informed (GM to player) that he might have another kobold love interest quite soon in the STAP.
I am curious as to what the group will do regarding dear Churtle now that the kobold is gone...
As a follow-up, poor Churtle did survive afflicting the barbarian (who succeeded the duskblade) and was released by the party after a brief interrogation.
I think they may even have dragooned the kobold into Lavinia's employment, but I'm not certain on that at the moment...
The biggest problem I had was getting the sneak attack in. The LDs rarely lasted long enough to set up a flank. That additional d6 is significant for 2nd level pc and even more so with the 60-70% miss rate. I suppose I could have let more hits hit, but meh hindsight is....
I used the two rooms to set up a few final combats after the initial ones were too easy. The banquet and the sleeping rooms in particular. Both have the min 15' wide space necessary for two flankers. A third LD would fire at them with the crossbows to draw them in before the held sneak attacks. Secondly have the LD quaff every clw potion they have to increase the length of the fight.
The back door through the taxidermist was too easy and I wish I had more opportunity for the pre-guild hall attacks, but my pcs ignored both of them so never even saw the crucible. So my 3rd suggestion is use more of those.
The PCs will likely now claim the guild as their own, especially since it comes with its own cook (yes they hired her on :)