Kiloren's Retributive Ward
Abjuration
Level: Sor/Wiz ???
Components: V, S, F
Casting Time: 1 round
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: 1 hour/level (D)
Saving Throw: Will negates (harmless)
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless)
This spell places a protective ward upon you. The first time in the spell's duration that you are attacked by a hostile creature and suffer hit point or ability score damage, you gain damage reduction 15/magic for 1 round.
Additionally, if you have either prepared a magic missile spell or have a spell slot open for it and know the spell, it automatically fires at the attacking creature.
Traps do not activate this spell.
Focus: A silver medallion, which the caster wears while the spell is in effect.
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One of the adventures I'm planning involves the party helping a wizard (Kiloren) craft a new spell (see above). When complete, I plan for him to share the spell with the wizard character. The need for this spell was concieved when Kiloren was traveling and came under attack. The creator, Kiloren, is a 9th level wizard.
Is the wording in the magic missile function of the spell sufficiently clear? Is the mechanic/idea sound? Should there be a cost to the focus component? And, most importantly, what level is it? I'm thinking 3rd.
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Is the wording in the magic missile function of the spell sufficiently clear? Is the mechanic/idea sound? Should there be a cost to the focus component? And, most importantly, what level is it? I'm thinking 3rd.
I think the wording and mechanic looks fine. 3rd is pretty low, though. I would say 4th and here's why:
The magic missile it releases basically gets cast as an immediate action against the aggressor. Magic Missile amplifies with level. As a 3rd level spell, the retributive effect of this spell would unleash 3d4+3 damage against the opponent. Once the caster was 9th level, he could squeeze 5d4+5 out of it. 5d4+5 as an immediate action is pretty nasty for a 3rd level spell slot, even if it does require getting hit to activate and still uses the 1st level slot for the magic missile. The DR is practically moot. It would only be useful to protect against an ambush from a large group of creatures or an unfortunate full-attack action (if you get full attacked as a wizard, you've done something terribly wrong). Plus, 3rd level spells have useful things like fly and fireball. By making it 4th level, not only do you put it out of reach for a couple more levels but you give a caster something useful to do with their 4th level slots (since 4th level spells on the whole kind of suck).
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A quickened magic missile takes up a 5th level slot. In many ways what you are looking at doing is rather similar.
So they gain DR 15/magic for only 1 round? Seems kind of a waste to me.
"Traps do not activate the spell" also is a bit ambiguous. Not sure why the spell would know that a golem was hitting him instead of a statue. (Of course you always have the "it's magic" reasoning.)
What if the attacker is invisible? You wouldn't be able to target it with magic missile normally. Would you be able to with this spell?
Just a few things to consider...
I think the caster should be able to choose when to activate the ward and fire off the magic missile so he doesn't target some low CR creature with the spell when he would rather use it against a more powerful opponent.
Moff's argument's also need to be looked at. He's right about invisible attackers voiding the spell.
I don't think a PC should have to keep a spell slot available or have magic missile prepared. You are holding up two spell slots for little effect there.
Perhaps the ward could provide the caster with DR 5/magic for 1 minute a level, then when the caster chooses he could expel the spell's energy to create the missile. Make the spell about 3rd-level and its really not that powerful. You could also increase the ward to DR 10/magic or increase its duration to 10 minutes a level, but that would probably make the spell 4th- or 5th-level.
Just some thoughts.
Nothing really important but, I can't find any personal spells with saving throw or spell resistance sections (except for those that force others to make saving throws).
Nothing really important but, I can't find any personal spells with saving throw or spell resistance sections (except for those that force others to make saving throws).
Good call. When I was looking at the spell information "template" to make sure I had all the pertinent information, I was looking at displacement, as I was considering making it a Touch spell. However, I decided to change it becuase it would get wierd with the magic missile bit.
Protecting against ambushes is exactly what this spell was made for. The wizard crafting it got attacked by an owlbear on the road and is a little paranoid now. Thus the damage reduction 15/magic for one round- it stops further attacks by additional enemies (unless they have magic weapons) long enough for the caster to throw up a better defense. I was kind of hoping that would help reduce the level. I was also thinking that having to have two spell slots taken up for this one spell would also reduce the level, but Fatespinner has a good point; it's much more likely to see use as a 4th level spell than a 3rd, especially by my group.
I'll post back tomorrow with some changes. Thanks for the advice thus far!
So they gain DR 15/magic for only 1 round? Seems kind of a waste to me.
Full attacks.
for the last 3 attacks they get 15 less dmg on each of them.
So they gain DR 15/magic for only 1 round? Seems kind of a waste to me.Full attacks.
for the last 3 attacks they get 15 less dmg on each of them.
I think that the spell would usually be activated when an opponent moves and attacks. Unless there were other enemy creatures in the battle there would be no attacks, in this case, that would meet the damage reduction. The only times a full attack would occur would be when a creature with the pounce ability charges, the creature started it's turn in melee range, or the creature uses a ranged attack.
If it were a ranged attack I would assume it came from a magical weapon (from creatures that can threaten a 9th level character).
This would work well against pounce since creatures with that ability usually are animals with non-magical attacks.
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Another thought comes to mind. It sounds as if a wizard cast Kiloren's Retributive Ward and he had prepared a maximized magic missile he could cast it when the ward was activated.
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So they gain DR 15/magic for only 1 round? Seems kind of a waste to me.
Full attacks.
for the last 3 attacks they get 15 less dmg on each of them.
Except that it is the first time that the character takes damage. Most creatures would move into position and only be able to get one hit. Then the spell would wear off and then they would get their full attack and the spell would be down.
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My thought would be:
DR10 + CL/2 instead of DR 15, so it scales
shoud be DR X/- instead of /magic
IT should be immediate, when the caster is successfully attacked, so the DR applies to the current attack, and the duration should be until the end of the activator's next turn. It would cover this attack, and the next.
The caster can also choose to react with anyprepared or available spell of 1st level. I know magic missile is iconic, but not necessarily ubiquitous. It effectivle creates a magic missile prerequisite on this spell being useful.
With all this, it should be at least 4th, maybe 5th.
My thought would be:
DR10 + CL/2 instead of DR 15, so it scales
shoud be DR X/- instead of /magicIT should be immediate, when the caster is successfully attacked, so the DR applies to the current attack, and the duration should be until the end of the activator's next turn. It would cover this attack, and the next.
The caster can also choose to react with anyprepared or available spell of 1st level. I know magic missile is iconic, but not necessarily ubiquitous. It effectivle creates a magic missile prerequisite on this spell being useful.
With all this, it should be at least 4th, maybe 5th.
I didn't want the DR to be too good, though. Also, originally I was going to say that you could key any one abjuration or evocation spell of 3rd level or less to go off on the attacker, but I decided to go for the simplicity route. Limiting it to just magic missile made it so much easier. I'm kind of scrambling to get an adventure ready; thus I brought it here.
The immediate action is a nice idea to help increase its utility, and would more clearly place it in the 4th level range.
Really, this spell is kind of the reward for the party for doing this quest. The party's mage is the only one who will have it in the game (other than the original crafter, who isn't going to stick around, and anyone the PC shares the spell with, but I don't see that happening).
So, here's an updated version. Does this seem about right for 4th level? If not, should/could the focus cost something to bring it more in line? I'd rather it not be higher than 4th level.
Kiloren's Retributive Ward
Abjuration
Level: Sor/Wiz ???
Components: V, S, F
Casting Time: 1 round
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: 1 hour/level (D)
This spell places a protective ward upon you. The first time in the spell's duration that you are attacked by a hostile creature and would suffer hit point or ability score damage, you gain damage reduction 15/magic for 1 round as an immediate action.
Additionally, if you have either prepared a magic missile spell or have a spell slot open for it and know the spell, you may choose for it to fire at the attacking creature, so long as you would have clear line of sight and effect to the attacker. Anything that could normally stop a magic missile (such as the attacker being invisible or out of the spell's range) prevents this function of the spell.
Only one magic missile spell may be utilized with each casting of Kiloren's Retributive Ward. If you do not choose to use a magic missile with this spell at the same time the damage reduction is activated, you cannot choose to do so at a later time.
Focus: A silver medallion, which the caster wears while the spell is in effect.
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I think that, to avoid the majority of problems (most notably the ambiguity of the magic missile spell), you should forego the magic missile entirely and simply state than any attacker suffers 4d6 force damage from a mystical backlash. This eliminates people firing off magic missiles which they have prepared with metamagic feats and also eliminates the need to use 2 spell slots for this spell to function (one for the spell itself and one for the magic missile).
If you go this route, I would make it a 5th level spell. I would also say that the DR lasts until it has absorbed 50 points of damage to make it less worthless.
If it were a ranged attack I would assume it came from a magical weapon (from creatures that can threaten a 9th level character).
Another thought comes to mind. It sounds as if a wizard cast Kiloren's Retributive Ward and he had prepared a maximized magic missile he could cast it when the ward was activated.
I tried posting this before, but Paizo seems to have decided it was hungry and ate it. If the other post appear later, would an administrator kindly delete it?
Yes, I think that would be allowed by the spell.
And regarding the quality of the weapon, it wouldn't necessarily be magical in the games I run. IMC, you're just as likely to be attacked by ordinary goblins at 1st level as you are at 5th, 10th, or 15th.
My philosophy is that characters don't have their levels boldly on display like in WoW, and the whole world isn't comprised of areas designed for certain levels, nor do I see any reason that random encounters should be based on party level at all.
In truth, this spell is designed for random encounters brought about during travel, when ambushes are common.
My suggestion:
Kiloren's Retributive Ward
Abjuration [Force]
Level: Sor/Wiz 4
Components: V, S, F
Casting Time: 1 round
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: 1 hour/level or until dischargedThis spell places a protective ward of force energy upon you. The next time that you would suffer hit point or ability score damage, you gain damage reduction 15/magic for 1 round/4 caster levels, after which the spell ends.
At this time, you may, as an immediate action, cast one magic missile spell at the attacking creature, so long as you would have clear line of sight and effect to the attacker. Anything that could normally stop a magic missile (such as the attacker being invisible or out of the spell's range) prevents this function of the spell.
If you do not or cannot cast a magic missile at the same time the damage reduction is activated, you cannot choose to do so at a later time.
A character can only have one casting of Kiloren's retributive ward active any any given time. Should the caster cast this spell while a previous casting is still active, the previous spell ends immediately.
Focus: A silver medallion (5 gp), which the caster wears while the spell is in effect.
At 9th-level, DR 15/magic isn't much of a bonus unless you're facing things that aren't much of a threat anyway, so bumping the duration up a tad won't break anything. I'd also suggest changing the mechanic so that the caster is explicitly casting the spell, thus sidestepping the "what caster level is the magic missile?, does it provoke an AoO?, etc" questions. I'd also suggest using the "only one at a time" mechanic to avoid the headache of what happens if the caster has six of these active at the same time.
All in all, it's a very neat idea for a spell.
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I don't think magic missile fits the spell. It's more defensive in nature, designed to give you a round (or more) to prepare yourself. I think it would be more appropriate to have an effect that pushed the attacker away, like the second level spell blast of force (I think that's the name), I believe it's in the Spell Compendium.
And regarding the quality of the weapon, it wouldn't necessarily be magical in the games I run. IMC, you're just as likely to be attacked by ordinary goblins at 1st level as you are at 5th, 10th, or 15th.
I didn't mean that mobs of creatures wouldn't attack. I just don't think that they would be much of a threat to the caster unless in very large numbers (16+).
For the record, the creator of the spell (Kiloren) is 9th level. The party's mage, who will recieve a copy of the spell upon its completion, is currently 3rd level, and will likely be 4th or 5th by the time the spell is done. Thus my desire to keep the level down, so that the PC can immediately benefit from this thing he's helped to make.
I think that, to avoid the majority of problems (most notably the ambiguity of the magic missile spell), you should forego the magic missile entirely and simply state than any attacker suffers 4d6 force damage from a mystical backlash. This eliminates people firing off magic missiles which they have prepared with metamagic feats and also eliminates the need to use 2 spell slots for this spell to function (one for the spell itself and one for the magic missile).
If you go this route, I would make it a 5th level spell. I would also say that the DR lasts until it has absorbed 50 points of damage to make it less worthless.
You know what? That is so much easier. I'm just going to go that route and describe the effect as similar to a magic missile firing back. How's this?
Kiloren's Retributive Ward
Abjuration [Force]
Level: Sor/Wiz ???
Components: V, S, F
Casting Time: 1 round
Range: Personal (see text)
Target: You (see text)
Duration: 1 hour/level (D) (see text)
This spell places a protective ward upon you. As an immediate action, the first time in the spell's duration that you would take hit point damage from a weapon attack, a mystical barrier surrounds you, providing damage reduction 15/magic. This shield absorbs a maximum of 10 damage, plus 5 per 2 caster levels (to a maximum of 50 at 16th level). The shield has a short duration, however, lasting only 1 round per 3 caster levels (to a maximum of 5 rounds at 15th level).
Additionally, the spell fires a pulse of magical energy back at your attacker if the foe is within 100 feet. This pulse deals 1d4 damage and ignores all concealment and any cover less than total. The pulse is a force effect.
For every 2 caster levels above 7th, the spell fires an additional pulse at the same target (to a maximum of 5 pulses at 15th level).
Focus: A silver medallion, which the caster wears while the spell is in effect.
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Now it's a very scaleable spell, but I think less complex and confusing overall (and it only takes one spell slot). Feels 5th level to me, though.
Other than level, just one question remains now: should the focus cost anything, and if so, how much?
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Now it's a very scaleable spell, but I think less complex and confusing overall (and it only takes one spell slot). Feels 5th level to me, though.
Other than level, just one question remains now: should the focus cost anything, and if so, how much?
Definitely fits well into 5th level now and also makes it slightly more useful at higher levels, though I would upgrade the pulse damage to 1d6 instead of 1d4 (since you're not getting that extra '+1' on each pulse because it's not a REAL magic missile). You might also consider making this spell a 'dual-school' spell (a new concept appearing in the PHB2) and treat it as both Abjuration and Evocation at the same time.
In my opinion, there's no need to make the focus cost anything significant. It's not so powerful a spell that I feel it needs to have any mitigating factors involved. I would add a note to state that multiple castings of this spell do not stack, otherwise the wizard can just cast it on himself like 6 times and then the first person to strike him in combat gets annihilated with a horrendous stream of force pulse death.
Now it's a very scaleable spell, but I think less complex and confusing overall (and it only takes one spell slot). Feels 5th level to me, though.
Other than level, just one question remains now: should the focus cost anything, and if so, how much?
Definitely fits well into 5th level now and also makes it slightly more useful at higher levels, though I would upgrade the pulse damage to 1d6 instead of 1d4 (since you're not getting that extra '+1' on each pulse because it's not a REAL magic missile). You might also consider making this spell a 'dual-school' spell (a new concept appearing in the PHB2) and treat it as both Abjuration and Evocation at the same time.
In my opinion, there's no need to make the focus cost anything significant. It's not so powerful a spell that I feel it needs to have any mitigating factors involved. I would add a note to state that multiple castings of this spell do not stack, otherwise the wizard can just cast it on himself like 6 times and then the first person to strike him in combat gets annihilated with a horrendous stream of force pulse death.
Good ideas.
And I lied. There's one more question. The party will eventually need to bring the wizard a reagent to finish the creation of the spell. Are there any low CR creatures with damage reduction and a nasty side effect to hitting them with a melee attack? I'm thinking something similar a babau, but I'd prefer to stay with Prime Material creatures if possible. And it should be below CR 8.
I'd search my books myself, but that's a lot of monsters, and like I said, I'm trying to get this adventure done fast. Thanks for all the advice thus far!
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And I lied. There's one more question. The party will eventually need to bring the wizard a reagent to finish the creation of the spell. Are there any low CR creatures with damage reduction and a nasty side effect to hitting them with a melee attack? I'm thinking something similar a babau, but I'd prefer to stay with Prime Material creatures if possible. And it should be below CR 8.
I'd search my books myself, but that's a lot of monsters, and like I said, I'm trying to get this adventure done fast. Thanks for all the advice thus far!
Without my books at hand, I can't say I can think of anything off the top of my head but I would recommend making something up on your own. Perhaps an exceptionally rare creature of some kind.
I would advise using the shocker lizard as the base creature and making it bigger, giving it a 'backlash' effect similar to the fire shield spell (but with say, electrical damage instead), and giving it a little bit of DR/magic.
Perhaps just call it a 'king shocker lizard' or a 'lightning lizard?'
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I'm thinking something similar a babau, but I'd prefer to stay with Prime Material creatures if possible. And it should be below CR 8.
The first thing that comes to mind is the Grick for low level DR. It doesn't really have any real retributive qualities though. I don't know of many creatures that do have a retributive quality -- babau and remorhaz come to mind, but I don't think that the remorhaz is quite what you are looking for.
Moff and Fatespinner's ideas are both good. Moff's suggestion doesn't require any changes to the monster, though.
I still have a small problem with the spell not being under the caster's control with respects to setting it off, but it's a minor quibble.
I like Fatespinner's idea about making it a dual-spell (unless that stuffs up the PC of course).
The spell's very, very good otherwises.
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After thinking about it last night...
Things like fire elementals kind of have "retributive" damage and they have damage reduction -- just not sure how you can gather enough of an elemental after you kill it as a spell component.
Probably a better choice would be an ooze of some kind. Black puddings deal acid damage to things that hit it. The ooze traits and splitting capabilities are similar in some ways to damage reduction. Also, if you use the "living spell" template from Eberron, I believe that they have damage reduction as well.
Just a few more thoughts.
Here are a list of living spells from CR 1 - 16 that might help you out quickly.
I think I'll leave the spell as-is, save for making the damage d6's and perhaps doing a dual school (the wizard is a generalist, so it doesn't make much difference).
A living spell or a fire elemental would work for the creature. We've got a druid in the party, and his Circle to back him (although they probably wouldn't agree to summoning a fire elemental just so a wizard can take its essence).
I can make another step to the quest where the party has to acquire some kind of essence-trapping device so that they can take something from the fire elemental or ooze when they kill it. All I have to do now is figure out where they can get something like that, since they're in kind of a low-magic region. Thanks for everyone's help! I think I've got it from here.