RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32
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This has been touched upon in other threads....I figured I'd start a central clearing house for ideas on the topic(s).
It seems to be the general consensus that most people want a "new take" on halflings, gnomes and kobolds. How would you like to see these races portrayed? (I love the way goblins are being reimagined, for example. And it looks like the Paizo folks have some ideas for kobolds...)
Personally, I would like to see a move away from the Tolkien-esque, comedic halfing. I really liked the Dark Sun halflings. Maybe, feral, tribal halflings? I'm imaging cannibals that paint their bodies in ash and file their teeth to sharp points. Maybe they worship their ancestors, or practice voodoo/curse related magics. Almost like ... aboriginal pygmies.
Anyone else? There are no wrong answers.
I still want to see Asian elves. :)
But on topic, I do like the feral halfling idea, but it might be too much of a change for "core" like the Asian elves. Their favored class could be barbarian, though you'd see clerics as well, and maybe sorcerers. Not just your standard halfling thief.
Eberron did a decent reimagining of halflings with the Talenta Plains dinosaur riders. They're still core halflings though, but with a slightly different flavor take. I like that idea, but obviously its been done before.
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RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32
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...And....while I'm thinking about it - the halfling wizards wouldn't use paper or papyrus. They could etch their spells into bones and keep a bag of bones to study their spells from, rather than a spellbook. These same bones could be used for casting to divine the future.
For spell components....they could keep fetishes....whereby they actually wear their spell components in braids of dead women's hair, knotted and wrapped in cords around their necks, wrists and waists. They believe that women's hair, when used in their fetishes, makes their spells stronger.
The few scrolls that exist could be written in blood and bile on tanned flesh.
Although...I'm not going for an "evil" halfing society. The halflings just wouldn't see anything wrong with eating their enemies and making good use of all the parts, so nothing goes to waste.
It seems to be the general consensus that most people want a "new take" on halflings, gnomes and kobolds.
Which consensus was this? I remember reading a discussion where most seemed to NOT want to deviate from the core rules, instead choosing fluff that supported the crunch, not changing the crunch for sake of new fluff.
Off the top of my head, I'd pitch a concept of halflings as having been brought to this continent as slaves in the some distant past. I guess they could be feral or dinosaur-riding or anything else in their homelands, but here, they were a servant race. Of course they'd be a free race now, but a history of being landed on by Plymouth Rock would jive with a few of the halfling's game stats:
A) They're called "halflings". That can't be their own name for them, and being arbitrarily named by the humans, elves and dwarves (in such a nearly derogitory way) seems a good a reason as any.
2) If humans, elves AND dwarves owned some halflings in the distant past, that would explain why their now-free descendents have merged into their societies enough to produce hairfeet, tallfellows and stouts.
Most of the rest can just be explained away by their size, but depending on how recently they were emancipated, you could easily attribute things like proficiency with thrown weapons (because they weren't allowed bows/crossbows) and even a rogue favored class as evolving from their situation.
That's just off the top of my head, mind you.
What I really want from gamecrafters, though, is something to justify why the game has gnomes AND halflings. They just aren't different enough in my eyes that you couldn't use them interchangeably (culturally speaking). Since I've already tossed out a concept for elves in another thread, maybe I'll cook up something for gnomes the next time this comes up.
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RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32
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Which consensus was this? I remember reading a discussion where most seemed to NOT want to deviate from the core rules, instead choosing fluff that supported the crunch, not changing the crunch for sake of new fluff.
That's what I meant. Sorry if I was unclear....I was looking for "fluff" to support the crunch.
Off the top of my head, I'd pitch a concept of halflings as having been brought to this continent as slaves in the some distant past. I guess they could be feral or dinosaur-riding or anything else in their homelands, but here, they were a servant race. Of course they'd be a free race now, but a history of being landed on by Plymouth Rock would jive with a few of the halfling's game stats
Oooh...I like this idea too. You're absolutely right, it would "explain" a lot of the halfling game stats...with a very interesting backstory.
I would also like to see some justification for gnomes. I've never played one....never been interested in one. I don't know anyone that prefers (or wants) to play them. They just seem like a semi-comical dwarf-halfling crossbreed.
I like the idea about halflings being slaves in the past. As for gnomes, they are going to be tied to the fey to some extent, and have obsessions that drive them (general rule not all).
Heh. In my own homebrew campaign world, which I'm using to run the STAP, halflings used to be slaves.
Actually, in my CW, elves, dwarves and halflings all used to be slaves. The humans, with their immense reproductive capabilities eventually conquered the other demi-human races through sheer numbers. Eventually, they've all been emancipated to a certain degree, though they're still generally second-class citizens, and large numbers of people are racist to varying degrees. And, it was long enough ago that none of the demi-human races are much longer-lived than humans -- the semi-magical nature of their races has started to fade with time. In fact, there's no half-elves in my campaign, because full elves are half-elves. THe real elves were even more badass (though not badass enough to prevent human conquest). But all that is tangential to say that I'd already started using the "halflings used to be slaves" idea, so I'm amused to see it mentioned here.
I don't think goblins really come up in the STAP, or I'd be using the Pathfinder versions.
As for my gnomes, well.... they're very different (flavor-wise, the crunch is still the same). They are a strange and mysterious race -- humanoids smaller than halflings, with ash-gray skin and all-black, flinty eyes. They work magics not known by other races (I'm running a low-mid level magic campaign), and keep many dark secrets. They are, in fact, rather gnomish.
In fact, there's no half-elves in my campaign, because full elves are half-elves. THe real elves were even more badass (though not badass enough to prevent human conquest).
There's an interesting solution to an unseen conundrum. Why can elves breed with humans and are apparently the only ones? I like the idea that you've presented here: elves are a race of fey who have given up their immortality (or had it taken from them) to live with humans. I wonder where we could go with that.
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I've always wanted to rewrite halflings as a people with a similar backstory to the Jews of the Middle Ages. Kicked out of their homeland, forced into a Diaspora, settling in many cities and forming their own communities and neighborhoods, adapting the local culture and language to their own, doing all the things that the natives don't want to, etc.
Cheers,
Cam
I've always wanted to rewrite halflings as a people with a similar backstory to the Jews of the Middle Ages. Kicked out of their homeland, forced into a Diaspora, settling in many cities and forming their own communities and neighborhoods, adapting the local culture and language to their own, doing all the things that the natives don't want to, etc.
That doesn't require much of a rewrite at all. Frankly, the halflings have been pretty lacking in the "racial history" part, so anything goes. In any case, this is also a pretty sharp idea and a lot kinder than the idea of elves and humans enslaving them.
How would you answer the big question of "why are they called halflings?"
How would you answer the big question of "why are they called halflings?"
"Halfling" is their name in Common, which clearly is the human language. Humans called them halflings because they're so short, and since other people learn their language the name has stuck.
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RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32
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How would you answer the big question of "why are they called halflings?"
I like the idea of the term "halfling" being derogatory. It could be as offensive to them as any racial epithet in real life. The humans, either when enslaving them or while causing their diaspora, coined the term for them.
It could mean, literally, being only half a man. As such, the "halflings" (we really need a name that they call themselves) were accorded no rights, were spat upon, and were seen as only a notch above animals.
This mindset, and the prejudice against halflings, would go a long way to explaining why Rogue is their favorite class. To adapt and survive in these "modern" (and still somewhat hostile) times, they have resorted to thievery.
In the world I'm developing (though I've slowed way down since I've started thinking about running what's in Pathfinder), halflings come from an island nation that they believe has been destroyed. Almost the entire population fled on ships, landing in the various kingdoms of the big-folk. In some places they were accepted, in others, not, so they wander.
Well, I really like the idea that halflings were once slaves who were brought from distant lands, and that they view the name "halfling" as deragatory. Perhaps it's possible to combine both the idea that they went on a diaspora after their civilization was destroyed and that they were used as slaves - perhaps the humans are some other demihuman race annihilated their civilization, forcing the halflings to migrate in great numbers to other lands. In Varisia, they were enslaved by humanity or some more ancient race, eventually won their freedom, and have become gypsy-like nomads to avoid ever becoming enslaved again.
About gnomes, I also feel like they just feel to "unexplained." They lack any racial flavor to them; I like the idea that they are an enigmatic race that maybe possesses great and terrible secrets that the other races cannot comprehend.
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RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32
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Hm...elves...
I like the concept of them losing their fey status. Possibly the other fey united against them, for their acceptance of humans, and took away their fey status? Maybe the one and only time that the Seelie and Unseelie courts have ever united on something?
The original elves were very powerful compared to what passes for an elf now. The elves themselves were mortified when the first of them began to actually die of old age (albeit, after centuries of life). The elves also began to look more human-esque over time - their ears became less pointed and pronounced, the race grew noticeably taller and heavier than other fey over time, etc. (Becoming the OGL elf we all know.) Perhaps each new generation of elves has a shorter lifespan than the one before it (we're still talking centuries though).
For the first time, much to the horror of the elves, "half-elfs" are being born that grow facial hair and live only slightly longer than humans (explaining the current OGL half-elf stats). Whereas previous generations of elf and human unions were basically elves. The elves are shocked at how thin their fey blood has run, and are struggling to reclaim their identity and to define themselves as they are now.
They are, in fact, rather gnomish.So the female gnomes wear their hair in pigtails? :D
You really gotta get over this pigtails thing.
Gnome females in bouffant and beehive hairdos has a certain appeal, no?
You really gotta get over this pigtails thing.
I read that Amai d'Cannith actually put her hair up in a single ponytail for a while. The rest of the gaming group was shocked. So that's progress at least. :D
And Mike what are you doing awake at 10pm. Shouldn't you be getting your beauty sleep ;) so you can create more wonderful Pathfinder and Gamemastery stuff tomorrow?
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You really gotta get over this pigtails thing.
Gnome females in bouffant and beehive hairdos has a certain appeal, no?
No, no, a thousand times no! ;D
And bouffant and beehives...? Ew... ;P
eww beehhives... brings back bad memories...
I photographed a wedding where the bride had a beehive, and I swear it was almost two feet high. Stupidest style I have ever seen. Everyone in the congregation is going on about how awesome her hair is, and I am trying to not laugh. Pictures looked goofy as can be. BTW this was about 10 years ago... wow I feel old.
So I put it to you ...
Would gnome females, whose race has a penchant for tinkering, crafting and making elaborate illusions ... prefer a hairstyle that is as elaborate or extravagant as their personalities -- or would they opt for a practical pigtail?
I'm thinking French court, say in the age of swashbuckling here, kind of stuff.
Of course, I'm sure Mike is thinking Oriental court, say about the same time period.
I'm thinking Faye Dunaway, he's probably got Ziyi Zhang in mind.
Back a little bit more to the subject matter....
As I said earlier, I made gnomes a little more mysterious. In fact, I made them explicitly an NPC race.
Since the STAP has little to do with them, my changes to gnomes is mostly background flavor. But someday, I'd like to run some players through a mini-campaign that actually deals with the gnomes.
I have some ideas that (I'd like to think) will make gnomes no longer cute, stupid and silly. I think I have some gnomes that will make you downright terrified.
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RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32
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I have some ideas that (I'd like to think) will make gnomes no longer cute stupid and silly. I think I have some gnomes that will make you downright terrified.
How so?
And...based on the Chat Summary, it looks like hobgoblins are open to new interpretations as well. Any ideas?
How about Hobgoblins with a very complex religious based society? Based somewhat off Mayan culture...what if they were in to human (and demi-human) sacrifice, tattoos, piercings, etc?
I can also imagine them being something akin to the Picts in the Conan stories.
Contributor
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I have some ideas that (I'd like to think) will make gnomes no longer cute, stupid and silly. I think I have some gnomes that will make you downright terrified.
I definitely like the idea of gnomes who aren't stupid and are just a little scary, but I also really like the cute and silly aspect of gnomes.
But then, I like things that are cute and silly. Like my girlfriend, frex. :)
but I also really like the cute and silly aspect of gnomes.
I have some Swedish friends, so I have a deep appreciation of some of the more standard gnome interpretations, but I've been on this reinventing kick lately, trying to find ways to kick the old and the stale out of some of the standard fantasy conventions. I thought it was time for gnomes to get a makeover.
I tinker all the time. Someday I'd really like to hammer out one campaign world and stick to it for a bit, but lately I seem to be starting a new world with each campaign (and, as my players keep bugging me, I have a nasty habit of starting too many campaigns, and then switching to something else).
In my AoW campaign, I forbade halflings, but allowed goblins (and de-evil-ified them) and lizardfolk. Only one guy played a lizardfolk, that died pretty quickly, and we never got back to it.
Unfortunately, to really capture some of the ideas I would want to see in my One True Campaign World (Finally), I would have to invent a few new 20 level base classes to replace forbidden OGL ones, and probably invent a completely new magic system from scratch (which is a complete threadjack all by itself).
Over the last couple of campaigns, I've taken shots at reinventing halflings, goblins, gnomes and elves.
I think dwarves are overdue for a reinvention. Both in my campaign worlds, and in general.
How about Hobgoblins with a very complex religious based society? Based somewhat off Mayan culture...what if they were in to human (and demi-human) sacrifice, tattoos, piercings, etc?I can also imagine them being something akin to the Picts in the Conan stories.
I like the religious based society. :b: In my own campaign I have hobgoblins as something of a horse-nomad society (not a huge stretch from core), but the heavy religion works well for that too.
I really like the Hobgolbins as Mongol horsemen, ranging across the steppes. Or how about them dressed as Cossacks?
My favorite incarnation of hobgoblin is that of the "cursed" race. They were once beautiful and magnificent, commited some heinous crime, and as a race was cursed to be ugly and brutish, but retaining enough of their culture and dedication to law to retain their society. Thus, they are in conflict with everyone around them.
Is there something I’m missing that gives hobgoblins a preference for critter-riding? I’m not saying it isn’t a neat idea, having hordes of goblinoids sweeping across the plains, I was just wondering if that was based on anything.
But while we’re at it, what’s the proposed tie with goblins and bugbears, both of which are considered part of the big goblin family. Come to think of it, it’s the goblins who have the racial bonus to ride checks.
And while I have a chance to encourage fluff based on crunch, what would be a good reason for why the hobgoblins hate elves and attack them on site? Could they be the race that destroyed the hobgoblin kingdom in the past and left them wandering nomads?
And just so I don’t miss out on my chance to comment on gnomes, what kind of society would evolve people who have an natural affinity for illusions and the ability to speak with burrowing animals?
Hmm.
You're small. You can talk to burrowing mammals. You're above average when it comes to magic that misleads or misdirects.
Surely you must come from a culture who's afraid of the things on the surface, forcing you to live in cramped quarters (small) getting along with your neighbors (burrowing mammals) and making sure people can't see or find you (illusion).
Gnomes - the meerkats of the world!
Cheers,
Cam
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Contributor
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Hmm.
You're small. You can talk to burrowing mammals. You're above average when it comes to magic that misleads or misdirects.
Surely you must come from a culture who's afraid of the things on the surface, forcing you to live in cramped quarters (small) getting along with your neighbors (burrowing mammals) and making sure people can't see or find you (illusion).
Gnomes - the meerkats of the world!
Cheers,
Cam
Neat!
(PS: With pigtails.)
(PPS: He he he...)
So which lucky gnome gets to stand on his hind legs and scan the sky for birds o prey?
Just skimmed over this, but I'm amazed no one has brought this up.
Hin. The halflings refer to themselves as the "Hin." At least, that's how it is in the Forgotten Realms, and I've heard no refutation of that elsewhere. Not sure if Paizo is allowed to use that, but... nothing is stopping the individual DM!
As far as identity, I like halflings as gypsies. Wandering, semi-nomadic people poorly understood and mostly mistrusted by the rest of the world.
As for gnomes, I like the tinker/master of magic aspect, but not the crazed/prankster idea so much. Just makes them too hard to take seriously. I really like elves as the masters of spellcraft, so to preserve gnomish identity, they become the masters of artifice, which extends to constructs as well.
The end result is Atlantean gnomes. Not necessarily in their physical build (I don't really picture them as Greek), but in the level of wonderous magic they have, bordering on magi-tech but isolated to gnomish society and virtually unheard of in other cultures (since no one understands it).
What's all this about hobgoblins? I like to play up their militaristic side (actually a development brought about by OotS). They invade an area, establish a fort and live in military style with every able male serving in their "army," and continue until they are forced out or grow too big, in which case a division splits off and invades another area. Where there are hobgoblins, there is war.