I’m just starting a 2e homebrew that uses most of the older 2e rules (just post-1e) without all the fancy Player’s Options rules, etc. No Handbooks, no expansion stuff…you know, pretty basic. The immediate problem is that two key players, having played under me for at least the last ten years (having gotten so used to my variant of the more advanced rules) are already having issues with playing Rules As Written, which they’ve never had to do. They’re just not used to it and are having difficulties. I know this is a self-made problem but I thought it was time they got a real perspective on RAW games so they can begin running their own.
One of those key players is my wife, and she really hates RTFM (Reading the F!*^ing Manual)! As I mentioned in Daigle’s New Game Session Format thread, I’m planning on running a multi-DM game world where other people get a chunk of the world and are responsible for developing it independently of what I’m doing. When a party crosses out of one DM’s territory and into another, the person responsible for that territory puts his/her character away and picks up running the game and the former DM now picks up a character to fill the empty slot. It’s very free-form without a lot of complex plot lines, and such. (***Refer to my comments in Daigle’s thread for more detailed info, if you haven’t read it already***) My wife has had months to read the books and begin working up her territory. Now that I’ve actually started running the game, there’s a clock ticking. Eventually (no real plan right now) these characters are going to go into her area and she’ll be responsible for running the game. She hasn’t done squat as far as I can tell. If we were to continue playing what she’s used to, the way I’ve run it for so long, maybe she could wing it to a point, but now that I’ve gone back to RAW she’s going to be so lost it will be a crying shame.
No to sound callous, but my concerned here isn’t for her…she’s adaptable, yaddah, yaddah. I’m concerned here for the game. I don’t want the concept (the game) to die, and I don’t want to have to break down and go back to old habits and start running my usual way. I really think this is going to be fun and she definitely needs the experience with RAW gaming if for no other reason than it will help her with her DM’s abilities. I know it did for me.
Do any of you have experience motivating a recalcitrant spouse?
What do I do? How do I motivate her? How do I kick her in the butt and get her to RTFM and do the work? I’m just lost here…sad commentary for a 50 year old man who’s been gaming longer than a lot of the readers here have been alive….*sigh*
Any suggestions would be appreciated…
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I can identify with you. My wife plays with me as well. And she has yet to read any boook. It's gets a little annoying having to explain grappling or whatever everytime because she just won't read the rules. "They are boring," she says. Problem is she is a great player other than that.
My suggestion is don't make her run "her region." I would lay odds that she plays for the fun of playing and has no real desire to run a game herself. May be wrong, but it sounds that way.
If so, why make her, or anyone else in the game, do something they don't really want to do?
I would revise the premise and go on with the game.
If everyone is happy with your houserules, why go back to RAW? No offense, but your group is already a minority with regards to the larger gaming community because you're not playing 3.5 edition, so I can't imagine that you're just trying to get back in 'the mainstream'.
Just curious,
TS
If everyone is happy with your houserules, why go back to RAW? No offense, but your group is already a minority with regards to the larger gaming community because you're not playing 3.5 edition, so I can't imagine that you're just trying to get back in 'the mainstream'.
Just curious
Tequila echoes my second thought. I understand the RAW as standardizing for the multi-DM format, but do you really have that many new members not familiar with or who don't like your HRs?
It isn’t a matter of anyone being unhappy with the house rules. The concept is more of, “And now for something completely different!”…a change of pace, a whole new perspective. My wife had a small exposure to 2e RAW very early in her gaming experience (shortly before we met). But the vast majority of her gaming has been with me and my HR variations. The other player, as far as I know, has never experienced RAW. Both would make good DM’s. They’re both intelligent and creative, both have excellent imaginations, and my wife in particular is amazing with her multi-tasking ability.
I’ve been the one exclusively running the games for the last 14-15 years. I’ve been hovering on the edge of serious burnout for some time. I’ve had to threaten “retirement” from the game more than once to get someone else to run something so I can sit and play. Out of three attempted such games two were major flops that died very early. The third lasted a year. That gave me the respite I needed to start looking at running again. But I wanted something different, something “new” (at least for them if not for me), something not the Same-old-same-old stuff. So I went back to my personal lore and found this idea left over from way back and decided to give it a try if the others were amendable. They were. Now I feel like the Boy Who Cried Wolf, nobody will pay attention. The game is afoot and I’m apparently the only one dressed for the occasion.
My wife and I had a talk about this last night, just after I posted the opening of the thread. Without revealing too much detail, I will say that it was rather….animated. No hostility…just very pointed, on both sides. Her essential perspective: “I’m not going to memorize all that, I’ll just read what I need when I need it.” My essential reply: “One can’t know when and how to break the rules if one doesn’t know what the rules are.” And there it sits. You see my dilemma. She’s agreed to run, for a while at least, but just doesn’t seem to “get” why she needs to read, memorize, and understand those rules. *sigh* Back to the drawing board, I guess.
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My advice is to try to get her to treat DMing as at least an open-book exam.
In an open-book exam, you don't have to "know" or "memorize" the material, but you'd better be pretty familiar with the text so you can find it in a hurry.
Sure... it helps to actually know the stuff, but let's face it, there's a lot, even in gold old 2E, to actually know.
Still, I can't see how she can expect to be able to run a game, fi she doesn't have at least a basic grasp of the rules (the definition of basic grasp is different for DMs than it is for players, as those of us who do both already know.)
I do have to echo others in this thread, though. If she doesn't want to DM (and "agreeing" to DM is not the same as wanting to), then the experience will be unsatisfying for everyone involved.
If you're burnt out and don't want to DM, don't. Let the game sit for a little while. Try something else to keep your group together while you recharge your batteries. (I highly recommend "Munchkin" - it's a hoot.)
Unfortunately, I don't think you get them to RTFM. For some people reading TFM is about as much fun as going to the dentist and asking for "the works."
I like to play with my friends, and have over time, taught almost all of my good friends to play. For whatever reason, it's always been easier for me to find friends outside of gaming and teach them to play than it has been to bring gamers into my friendship circle.
So I've gotten to watch different people embrace the game at many diferent levels. Some love the numbers, some the puzzles and exploration, others the roleplay, etc.
One of the best players I ever had took two years to learn even the most basic of rules. Every session we would have to remind her about the way some of her character's abilities worked. But my god, could she roleplay. I mean, really sublime stuff.
Just last night another new player who has played either a fighter or a barbarian for a dozen or so games tried to make her attack roll with her initiative bonus.
But I wouldn't trade either of those two players for the world.
In fact, I contrast them with a player I had a while back who loved TFM, and was really in to the "rules as written." He would stop the game to point out each time I'd missed a rule. It absolutely killed any momentum the game had going, and prevented me from taking any dramatic license. For example, when describing a monstrosity the party was facing, he interrupts me to point out that it sounds like I'm describing a size gargantuan creature, whereas the miniature I'd pulled out was clearly size huge.
So, in short, you don't make her RTFM, and you let her run her game the way she wants to.
However, I would like to add that if anyone here does have a way to make your spouse do what you want, please email me ASAP at cklarock at cklarock.com.
Thanks!
Perhaps she is intimidated by the sheer amount of information that you seem to be insisting that she learn. Maybe you need to offer to help her with the set up of a couple of scenerios and share your vast experience. It's just possible that she is afraid of lettng you down and overwhelmed by the task you have set before her.
...perhaps she is intimidated by the sheer amount of information...It's just possible that she is afraid of lettng you down and overwhelmed by the task you have set before her
If she’s intimidated, she should say so. Moping around and avoiding the issue until it festers isn’t the way to handle it. As far as possibly letting me down goes; it couldn’t happen. After 30 years of gaming I’m well aware that some people just are not cut out to be DMs. Even those that have all the abilities/talents/whatever, sometimes just don’t seem to have the drive/nerve/whatever to handle it. If she flops, fine; it’s no big deal. I’ve seen it happen many times. The least she can do, though, is try. To me, not trying is more of a failure than trying and failing.
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Sometimes people don't wanna be DM. They may be creative and smart and all the other things that make good DMs but they lack the one thing necessary to be a good DM(or even any kind of DM), and that is desire. She doesn't seem to desire the mantle of DM. I didn't for over 15 years. Now I do it more so I can have a game that is not covered in regurgitated houserules that some Joe comes up with because they think "Grappling should work this way. It just makes sense!(from someone who can't wrestle open a bag of Doritos on a consistant basis,usually)".
Lawgiver, forgive me for saying but this is a self-inflicted problem(as you already stated), that seems to stem from you wanting a change so you don't experience DM burnout. I have a suggestion.
1. Switch over to 3.5 (new, shiny, fun, less tweaking necessary)
2. Add a player or 2 to the roster, one of which should be a DM.
3. Alternate weeks with the new DM and run 2 separate campaigns(I would suggest a couple adventure paths from Piazo like Shackled City and Savage Tide for the locational tie-ins.
4. Before starting the adventure paths play a couple stand-alone adventures to help get a grasp on the 3.5 rules, which I would suggest sticking to the core three rulebooks for.
I am not trying to switch you over because you play 2nd edition, I just keep hearing you say you need a change. The change I outlined will work because it is probably easier to recruit people to game with if you are looking at a game with the current rulesets. Without 3.5 you may have trouble getting people into your game.
Just a suggestion, do with it what you will.
FH
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Trust me, what follows does apply to the question, just a little obliquely.
I once played for two years in a group (this was around 1999-2001) with the absolute greatest DM ever. This guy always knew the rules answers when questioned, exuded confidence, was a master storyteller--no matter what action the players took, he adapted, described the scene, and the flow of the game was like water over smooth rocks. Then, one day, I discovered--quite by accident--that the guy NEVER actually rolled the dice! When asked a question about rules, half the time he MADE IT UP; his confidence and delivery were so lawyer-perfect no-one ever questioned his decision or knowledge. Whenever a DM dice roll was needed, he simply rolled the dice behind his GIANT homemade AWESOME screen for effect, and made his own ruling based on how he wanted the story to progress. We never suspected we were railroaded simply because he was, well, just that good. Now, I tend to always join gaming circles where fluff and story are of the greatest importance; so if any of the players in the aforementioned group had been crunchies, well...maybe it would have been a different tale altogether. Nonetheless, I think it all boils down to: A) how good is the DM (read Storyteller), and B) how much fun is the adventure.
Well if she does indeed want to DM, let her do it her own way. It may blow up in her face, but the way you're handling things now, it sounds like things are likely to blow up in your face too.
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If she’s intimidated, she should say so. Moping around and avoiding the issue until it festers isn’t the way to handle it. As far as possibly letting me down goes; it couldn’t happen. After 30 years of gaming I’m well aware that some people just are not cut out to be DMs. Even those that have all the abilities/talents/whatever, sometimes just don’t seem to have the drive/nerve/whatever to handle it. If she flops, fine; it’s no big deal. I’ve seen it happen many times. The least she can do, though, is try. To me, not trying is more of a failure than trying and failing.
I'm not in your group, so I'm just surmising here, but my opinion is that maybe she's "moping around and avoiding the issue" because she feels bullied into doing something she really doesn't want to do in the first place.
If the conversation went something like:"Guys, we need to try something new, because I'm about ready to burn out. I'd like to start a new campaign where we each have a part of the world to DM, and I really want everyone to do their part."
"Well, um... I guess that would be alright, even though..."
"Great! Now that that's settled, let's get to work on our respective parts of the world. This will be great!"
perhaps you should reconsider the campaign.
It's easy to push people to do things they don't want to do, and not even notice you're doing it.
You say, "The least she can do, though, is try."
I say, "The least you could do is understand her reluctance."
Your posts have really been all about you and how her apparent lack of desire to DM is hurting you. How do you think that attitude is making her feel?
Just something to think about.
I guess a little psychotherapy is useful once in a while. I tend to agree with the commentary that the whole idea was a bit self-serving and that I may (emphasized) have done some subconscious manipulation (I don’t think I bullied). Thanks for the sympathy…
;-p lol…
1. Switch over to 3.5 (new, shiny, fun, less tweaking necessary)
2. Add a player or 2 to the roster, one of which should be a DM.
3. Alternate weeks with the new DM and run 2 separate campaigns(I would suggest a couple adventure paths from Piazo like Shackled City and Savage Tide for the locational tie-ins.
4. Before starting the adventure paths play a couple stand-alone adventures to help get a grasp on the 3.5 rules, which I would suggest sticking to the core three rulebooks for.
1. Been there, done that, got the T-shirt, sold it in a garage sale, don’t want it back.
2. Our mix now is good, just not enough DMs. They need training. If there’s one thing the gaming community can always use it’s more good DMs.…it's always been easier for me to find friends outside of gaming and teach them to play than it has been to bring gamers into my friendship circle.
We just don’t get out much.
3. That’s basically what this will do, once it really gets rolling. Different DMs controlling different areas that don’t have much in the way of ties to each other. There’s simply the added bonus of being able to cross characters from one to another.
4. Refer to 1, above.
But thanks anyway. I know the suggestion was intended to be helpful, and I appreciate the attempt, but I just don’t like 3x in any form….Sorry.
To Andrew: Believe it or not your reply was very apropos. I’ve been accused (and sometimes actually been guilty) of just this kind of operation, so I see the parallel. If I read it right, I get the message there. Thank you.
To Tequila: I think that’s just what I’m going to have to do. Help her in the prep as much as possible and let her sink or swim on her own merit (provided she actually decides to follow through). If she doesn’t, that’ll have to be ok too. Heck I’m married to her, what am I going to do…throw her out the door? ….. …… Nah…
Stunty: Did you have a bug in my house? Point taken though.