My players all think that for paladins and rangers, spell durations are by class level. I think it's caster level. I cannot find a ruling on this in any official source. Please help me find something so I can end this without more arguing. It annoys me that the PHB is vague in its description for spell duration.
For me, "proof" is any spell that is on multiple class lists, like "Alarm". But the players don't buy it. Is there anything official that states this?
TIA
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My players all think that for paladins and rangers, spell durations are by class level. I think it's caster level. I cannot find a ruling on this in any official source. Please help me find something so I can end this without more arguing. It annoys me that the PHB is vague in its description for spell duration.
For me, "proof" is any spell that is on multiple class lists, like "Alarm". But the players don't buy it. Is there anything official that states this?
TIA
From the PH under Ranger
Through 3rd level, a ranger has no caster level. At 4th level and higher, his caster level is one-half his ranger level.The same is listed under Paladin.
Hope this helped.
My players all think that for paladins and rangers, spell durations are by class level. I think it's caster level. I cannot find a ruling on this in any official source. Please help me find something so I can end this without more arguing. It annoys me that the PHB is vague in its description for spell duration.
For me, "proof" is any spell that is on multiple class lists, like "Alarm". But the players don't buy it. Is there anything official that states this?
TIA
From the PH under Ranger
Through 3rd level, a ranger has no caster level. At 4th level and higher, his caster level is one-half his ranger level.The same is listed under Paladin.
Hope this helped.
I understand this. It's the spell descriptions that are the problem. They say, for example "1 round/level" and my players think that means their 4th level paladin's spell lasts 4 rounds. I say 2.
Then try this section. I pulled this from the SRD, but it should be somewhere at the beginning of the Spell List in the PHB. Note the last sentence and the use of the word ALWAYS:
"Caster Level: A spell’s power often depends on caster level, which is defined as the caster’s class level for the purpose of casting a particular spell. A creature with no classes has a caster level equal to its Hit Dice unless otherwise specified. The word “level” in the spell lists that follow always refers to caster level."
Then try this section. I pulled this from the SRD, but it should be somewhere at the beginning of the Spell List in the PHB. Note the last sentence and the use of the word ALWAYS:
"Caster Level: A spell’s power often depends on caster level, which is defined as the caster’s class level for the purpose of casting a particular spell. A creature with no classes has a caster level equal to its Hit Dice unless otherwise specified. The word “level” in the spell lists that follow always refers to caster level."
I could not find this (beyond your first sentence) verbiage in either the SRD or the PHB.
I could not find this (beyond your first sentence) verbiage in either the SRD or the PHB.
PHB, page 181, top of the second column above the "Bard Spells" header.
For the SRD, go to this link at Wizards website:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=d20/article/srd35
Go down the list to Spell List I and open that document. It's in the same place above the "Bard Spells" header.
I could not find this (beyond your first sentence) verbiage in either the SRD or the PHB.PHB, page 181, top of the second column above the "Bard Spells" header.
For the SRD, go to this link at Wizards website:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=d20/article/srd35
Go down the list to Spell List I and open that document. It's in the same place above the "Bard Spells" header.
Got it! Thanks Mang!
Others have already answered the question, so I'll just add: you're the DM, so it's your place to make the ruling on this. If your players don't like it, they can choose to rule differently when they run the game.
I'm all for the notion that it's the players' game too, but rules adjudication is one of the key responsibilities of the DM, especially where the rules as written are ambiguous.
Everything is deffinitely by caster level. This goes all the way back to original D&D concepts, when the Strategic Review (Pre-Dragon) was just publishing the original Ranger character class. The caster's level is an indication of how competent he/she is in weilding magic. In the case of classes that pick up the ability after 1st level, the two are not congruent and any spell calculation (Range, duration, damage, etc.) that refers to "level" is based on "caster level" (degree of competence in magic) not character level.
Judge it the way you wish, but I wouldn't let the players bully me. As DM, my word is final. Put your foot down.