Jefferson and Madison were 100% correct. Religion and politics don't mix well. Let's take this latest line of discussion elsewhere, like maybe back to the politics threads.
Pres Man has left a trial of white hoods and lynching photos over every thread about gay rights to which he's posted and which I've seen. I make no apologies for making the obvious inference.
Sorry for my bluntness, but this is a stupid remark. You don't know what's in Pres Man's heart to be making assumptions like this. You've written two posts but you have sidestepped my question. Maybe I didn't make it clear. You preach like you're so high and mighty on the topic of gay civil rights and you seem to enjoy calling others bigots for not agreeing with your side. However, you make bigoted, very small-minded remarks on religion. You go out out of your way to bash it at every opportunity. Don't you feel hypocritical about it?
<---Thinks they should make the baby Jesus hold an American flag.
Don't mind the Chinese text. Western sites can legally link to an mp3. (Ed: I meant can't)
Lyrics:
Jonny's in America
no tax at the wheel
Ah-ah-ah-ah ah-ah ah-ah-ah
Nobody needs anyone
They don't even just pretend
Ah-ah-ah-ah ah-ah ah-ah-ah
Jonny's in America
I'm afraid of Americans
I'm afraid of the world
I'm afraid I can't help it
I'm afraid I can't
I'm afraid of Americans
I'm afraid of the world
I'm afraid I can't help it
I'm afraid I can't
I'm afraid of Americans
Jonny's in America
Nah-nah-nah-nah nah-nah nah-nah-nah
Jonny wants a brain
Jonny wants to suck on a Coke
Jonny wants a woman
Jonny wants to think of a joke
Nah-nah-nah-nah nah-nah nah-nah-nah
Jonny's in America
Nah-nah-nah-nah nah-nah nah-nah-nah
I'm afraid of Americans
I'm afraid of the world
I'm afraid I can't help it
I'm afraid I can't
I'm afraid of Americans
I'm afraid of the world
I'm afraid I can't help it
I'm afraid I can't
I'm afraid of Americans
Nah-nah-nah-nah nah-nah nah-nah-nah
Jonny's in America
Jonny looks up at the stars
Jonny combs his hair
And Jonny wants pussy and cars
Johnny's in America, Nah-nah-nah-nah nah-nah nah-nah-nah
Jonny's in America, Nah-nah-nah-nah nah-nah nah-nah-nah
I'm afraid of Americans
I'm afraid of the world
I'm afraid I can't help it
I'm afraid I can't
I'm afraid of Americans
I'm afraid of the world
I'm afraid I can't help it
I'm afraid I can't
I'm afraid of Americans
God is an American
God is an American
I'm afraid of Americans
I'm afraid of the world
I'm afraid I can't help it
I'm afraid I can't
I'm afraid of Americans
I'm afraid of the world
I'm afraid I can't help it
I'm afraid I can't
Yeah, I'm afraid of Americans
I'm afraid of the words
I'm afraid I can't help it
I'm afraid I can't
I'm afraid of Americans
God is an American
God is an American
God is an American, Nah-nah-nah-nah nah-nah nah-nah-nah
God is an American, Nah-nah-nah-nah nah-nah nah-nah-nah
God is an American, Nah-nah-nah-nah nah-nah nah-nah-nah
God is an American, Nah-nah-nah-nah nah-nah nah-nah-nah
Damn, where's the popcorn when you need it?
You mind if I take this seat?
Bartender!? Scotch on the rocks, please, and something for my friend here before the show starts.
Damn, where's the popcorn when you need it?
I think I need a drink.
Sorry for my bluntness, but this is a stupid remark. You don't know what's in Pres Man's heart to be making assumptions like this. You've written two posts but you have sidestepped my question. Maybe I didn't make it clear. You preach like you're so high and mighty on the topic of gay civil rights and you seem to enjoy calling others bigots for not agreeing with your side. However, you make bigoted, very small-minded remarks on religion. You go out out of your way to bash it at every opportunity. Don't you feel hypocritical about it?Pres Man has left a trial of white hoods and lynching photos over every thread about gay rights to which he's posted and which I've seen. I make no apologies for making the obvious inference.
My 2 cents: The best response to Pres Man is often something along the lines of "whoever smelt it dealt it."
I wonder if Bowie is afraid of those American royalty checks.
;)
In the immortal words of Pink Floyd, "Kaching. Dum dum dum dum, da da da , dum dum..."
I wonder if Bowie is afraid of those American royalty checks.
;)
Whenever I read about Palin that song goes through my head.
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I just remember the day that you could disagree. Agree to disagree and there would be nothing to it.
now if I say I don't like duck
I am a duck bigot and I must also not like to put two types of fish in the same aquarium even if I already have.
I even get a strange look because I may have a different insurance then Aflac.
I just prefer chicken. :) KFC is traditional to me, and makes more sense. But I am a duck bigot cause a few folks want duck.
Right, and if anyone says anything less than glowing about social conservatives, they're "Christian-bashing?" Sorry, CJ -- that wasn't aimed at you; it's just that everyone around here is getting thin-skinned as hell. Which is why we needed a calm, civil thread in which to look at our differences amicably. Calling one another bigots of various stripes, and drawing battle lines and recruiting allies, isn't helping.
That's what the politics threads are for, after all.
LOL
You duck bigot! Stay away from my children.
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Right, and if anyone says anything less than glowing about social conservatives, they're "Christian-bashing?" Sorry, CJ -- that wasn't aimed at you; it's just that everyone around here is getting thin-skinned as hell. Which is why we needed a calm, civil thread in which to look at our differences amicably. Calling one another bigots of various stripes, and drawing battle lines and recruiting allies, isn't helping.
That's what the politics threads are for, after all.
I think this goes for politics too. Enough with drawing lines. Enough with telling me I am insane because I don't agree with you. That won't make me agree with you anymore that will just show me you are a nutjob who doesn't deserve to be listened to.
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... it's just that everyone around here is getting thin-skinned as hell. Which is why we needed a calm, civil thread in which to look at our differences amicably. Calling one another bigots of various stripes, and drawing battle lines and recruiting allies, isn't helping.
That's what the politics threads are for, after all.
I would say the general tone lately has made me question whether I want to be around at all.
I just remember the day that you could disagree. Agree to disagree and there would be nothing to it.
now if I say I don't like duck
I am a duck bigot and I must also not like to put two types of fish in the same aquarium even if I already have.
I even get a strange look because I may have a different insurance then Aflac.
I just prefer chicken. :) KFC is traditional to me, and makes more sense. But I am a duck bigot cause a few folks want duck.
Are you seriously comparing food preferences with civl rights issues ?
I was going to just leave it be, but ok.
Sorry for my bluntness, but this is a stupid remark. You don't know what's in Pres Man's heart to be making assumptions like this.
I answered this objection.
You've written two posts but you have sidestepped my question. Maybe I didn't make it clear. You preach like you're so high and mighty on the topic of gay civil rights and you seem to enjoy calling others bigots for not agreeing with your side.
I feel the same way about Catholic civil rights, Protestant civil rights, African-American civil rights, and so forth. There's no excuse for being against the equal rights of any innocent person. (Now if someone has just completed a five-state killing spree, we can call on the legal process to see about curtailing some of his rights.) I shall not pretend there is such an excuse because it makes someone feel better. It wouldn't be honest or decent to do so. I will no more make excuses for Pres Man than I will for the sheriffs and policemen who turned fire hoses and police dogs on civil rights protesters...or those who made excuses for doing the same.
However, you make bigoted, very small-minded remarks on religion. You go out out of your way to bash it at every opportunity. Don't you feel hypocritical about it?
Perhaps you could point out some of these? It's a serious question. The comment that prompted your post was about my genuine observations of a trend among the conservatively religious, which included a link to a summary of the trend itself as observed not just by me but by others. If you haven't met any body with these attitudes, then good for you. I wish we shared a social circle. I'm surrounded by them and see them all the time in national politics, and not just from the party of lady in the post in question. I didn't make the post because I have some kind of singular, obsessive hatred of such people and just wanted to slag on them. If I wanted to do that I'd have made a much shorter post, to say the least.
It's true that I say negative things about religions when I consider them to be doing bad things. (In fact on the aggregate I think they do more bad than good, though the ratio is not uniform for all religions at all times.) I say the same kinds of things about politicians who do bad things, corporations, governments, and so forth. Religion's misdeeds come up here more because it's a thread about religion. (I also think, like Kirth, that getting religion into politics is a terrible idea.) But one of my longest posts here is hardly anti-religious in the slightest. It's a summary of the archaeological evidence against a historical reading of the Exodus narrative. I think I've had some healthy back and forth with Moff Rimmer about the Bible and its translation not that long ago as well.
I'll grant I haven't always kept my temper (I'm human, after all.), but I will contest that I have some kind of single-minded focus on denigrating religion at every chance. If anything, I have such a focus on discovering facts. This leads me to discourse, including with the religious. Sometimes it goes decently well, others not. Such is life.
Right, and if anyone says anything less than glowing about social conservatives, they're "Christian-bashing?"
Of course not Kirth. I even realize there are social conservatives who deserve derision. I just get tired of the same people on these threads who feel a need to cut down religion at every single opportunity they can get.
I would say the general tone lately has made me question whether I want to be around at all.... it's just that everyone around here is getting thin-skinned as hell. Which is why we needed a calm, civil thread in which to look at our differences amicably. Calling one another bigots of various stripes, and drawing battle lines and recruiting allies, isn't helping.
That's what the politics threads are for, after all.
I know the feeling.
I just remember the day that you could disagree. ... KFC is traditional to me, and makes more sense. But I am a duck bigot cause a few folks want duck.Are you seriously comparing food preferences with civl rights issues ?
I would say that CJ is doing many things with the duck analogy, that being only one of them.
Are you seriously comparing food preferences with civl rights issues ?
That's how I read it. I'm hardly the world's thickest-skinned person, but that's hardly subtle.
Of course not Kirth. I even realize there are social conservatives who deserve derision. I just get tired of the same people on these threads who feel a need to cut down religion at every single opportunity they can get.
Amen to that, brother. Maybe you and I need to start a thread for "people who don't give a rat's ass that they don't agree on politics or religion, because they don't mind kicking back with a Shiner and shootin' the breeze with each other anyway."
Of course not Kirth. I even realize there are social conservatives who deserve derision. I just get tired of the same people on these threads who feel a need to cut down religion at every single opportunity they can get.Amen to that, brother. Maybe you and I need to start a thread for "people who don't give a rat's ass that they don't agree on politics or religion, because they don't mind kicking back with a Shiner and shootin' the breeze with each other anyway."
I'll join. Not much of a drinker but I'd enjoy the company. Raise my caffienated beverage of the moment to you sir.
Of course not Kirth. I even realize there are social conservatives who deserve derision. I just get tired of the same people on these threads who feel a need to cut down religion at every single opportunity they can get.Amen to that, brother. Maybe you and I need to start a thread for "people who don't give a rat's ass that they don't agree on politics or religion, because they don't mind kicking back with a Shiner and shootin' the breeze with each other anyway."
I'll stay clear. There are absolutely people I don't want to associate with even if they might be fun when one is sufficiently intoxicated. You guys have fun, though.
GAH!
Puts away his sniper rifle.
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Are you seriously comparing food preferences with civl rights issues ?I just remember the day that you could disagree. Agree to disagree and there would be nothing to it.
now if I say I don't like duck
I am a duck bigot and I must also not like to put two types of fish in the same aquarium even if I already have.
I even get a strange look because I may have a different insurance then Aflac.
I just prefer chicken. :) KFC is traditional to me, and makes more sense. But I am a duck bigot cause a few folks want duck.
There was nothing serious to that which I wrote. It was in response to that which was not serious earlier. In a frothing at the mouth, your a moron 'cause you don't agree with me kind of way.
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Are you seriously comparing food preferences with civl rights issues ?That's how I read it. I'm hardly the world's thickest-skinned person, but that's hardly subtle.
Yes I could be more subtle. I should be more subtle. I generally am more subtle.
There however is just a particular level of .... I am searching for the right word. It just elevates my ire to a level that I can not resist. Perhaps it is a short coming. I don't know. I should keep my mouth shut. I said I would. I guess I could not.I want civility. I hate it when I can no longer maintain civility.
So be it.
I will have a rum and coke fellows.
I know what you are getting at. But by putting this kind of question as a matter of taste or of mere opinion, one opens up a big can of worms, while at the same time closing the possibility of a rational discussion of the issue.Dismissing the problem with something along the lines of "everyone is entitled to their opinion" is very disrespectful to people whose lives are profoundly affected by how society chooses to deal with it.
That is a very acute response. I was not in anyway dismissing the issue. It is a very serious issue that should be dealt with on a mature level. I have obviously not been doing so. Mainly because some here respond that if you do not agree with them then you are, take your pick, an idiot, a moron, a bigot. I guess if I felt others are not playing by the rules, why should I. i forgot that the ends do not justify them means and that this does not always add to the discussion.
Hey CJ, I know it was not your intent to do anything like it. I even ended up deleting my post because I feared I could give you the wrong impression, but it seems you got to it before I did. Now it lives on in your response :)
Hey CJ, I know it was not your intent to do anything like it. I even ended up deleting my post because I feared I could give you the wrong impression, but it seems you got to it before I did.
It was still a good post.
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Oh and in case it was not noticed I choose duck for a reason. If it looks like one, swims like one, quacks like one, it must be one. except when it isn't. What blows my mind is when people can't fathom that there is something else out there that might swim and quack and taste good covered in orange sauce.
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Simple way to take care of that.
Hey CJ, I know it was not your intent to do anything like it. I even ended up deleting my post because I feared I could give you the wrong impression, but it seems you got to it before I did. Now it lives on in your response :)
. Everyone is entitled to their opinion just not their actions. Plus listening to everyones opinions helps the general public weed out the loonies.
Oh and in case it was not noticed I choose duck for a reason. If it looks like one, swims like one, quacks like one, it must be one. except when it isn't. What blows my mind is when people can't fathom that there is something else out there that might swim and quack and taste good covered in orange sauce.
Platypus? You're gutsy, my friend, I'll give you that.
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Oh and in case it was not noticed I choose duck for a reason. If it looks like one, swims like one, quacks like one, it must be one. except when it isn't. What blows my mind is when people can't fathom that there is something else out there that might swim and quack and taste good covered in orange sauce.Platypus? You're gutsy, my friend, I'll give you that.
I should quit. I will for this evening. Sorry if any took offense.
Duck season.
Wabbit season.
I should quit. I will for this evening. Sorry if any took offense.Oh and in case it was not noticed I choose duck for a reason. If it looks like one, swims like one, quacks like one, it must be one. except when it isn't. What blows my mind is when people can't fathom that there is something else out there that might swim and quack and taste good covered in orange sauce.Platypus? You're gutsy, my friend, I'll give you that.
Just a jest, attempting to lighten the mood :)
Duck season.Wabbit season.
Duck Season! FIRE!!
BLAM!!
Yoooooouuuuu're dethpickable.
Duck season.
Rabbit season.
DENIED!
I'm getting some kind of lag on other posts appearing.
I'mma little stinker.
Ah'm yer huckleberry!
When did this become the politics thread? I mean, we might be able to discuss religion (mostly) civilly, but politics is going a step too far.
+1
<---Thinks they should make the baby Jesus hold an American flag.
Don't mind the Chinese text. Western sites can legally link to an mp3. (Ed: I meant can't)
Lyrics:** spoiler omitted **...
I wonder if Bowie is afraid of those American royalty checks.
;)
Bowie explained what he meant by that song rather declaratively in an interview I'll try to find. What he was saying wasn't a slam. He adores the US, but he's frightened by certain aspects of our power. The lyrics are gauzy at best, so you'll have to take his word for it. ;)
Bowie explained what he meant by that song rather declaratively in an interview I'll try to find. What he was saying wasn't a slam. He adores the US, but he's frightened by certain aspects of our power. The lyrics are gauzy at best, so you'll have to take his word for it. ;)
Well, whatever his explanation, it ain't "Modern Love." Or "China Girl." Or "Ziggy Stardust."
I don't see it as a slam either, actually.
I think that the "God is an American" chorus has a lot to say about America's posture in the world.
My mom and dad are Americans. I lived there for years. Love the place. Love the people. Am frightened by particular things I see there.
It may not be the wisest thing bringing this up on here, but this seemed like the best place to vent my thoughts. I myself am a legally ordained pagan reverend, who also loves gaming as a hobby. In my years of experience I have performed weddings, funerals, community projects, organized donations, and more. Many of my players and friends are devout christians and fine with the fact that I am devout in my faith. Almost every person I've come across has been a bit nervous when I told them, until I got to explain what I actually believe in detail. There isn't anything anyone could post or say in this forum that would change my minf. However, I am not making this post to go into those details or discuss my beliefs, but to point out something I believe in.
Tolerance for Others Opinions
I will support any person in these forums opinions that they sincerely believes in as long as it is not harmful to others (harmful meaning things like eating people or bigotry and the like). It doesn't mean I'll change my opinion. I'm also all for helping someone if I have the means, even if that I don't completely agree.
Can't we all just put the dogma and prejudices saide and focus on what's really important here?
Paizo's awesome gaming system and the wondrous message boards where we have a say in it?
I admit I didn't get to read through the 107 pages of posts, but I have seen the cases where people get a little close minded about others opinions. There's no need to act like a kindergarten a drop to the level of someone else. Why not take the productive route, ignore them, and try to get something useful out of the forum.
Thank you all who are open minded and tolerant out there, you make this place what it is. Anyone else agree with this?