I've recently been following a sort of train-of-thought musing to some interesting conclusions. The basis of this experiment in creativity is a necromancer portraying the classic image of death/the grim reaper. This all concerns the application of a wizard using a scythe. Sounds ludicrous, no? Read on!
As we all know, you can certainly pick up any weapon, regardless of proficiencies. Thus, one would think that a wizard trying to appear intimidating by using a scythe would do just this, and that would be that. Most D&D veterans know that a wizard can't do anything successful in melee other than use touch attacks or act as an extremely secondary combatant. At least, that is the consensus I've always found.
Presume that by 5th level, this wizard has picked up both Martial Weapon Proficiency (scythe) and Weapon Focus (scythe), and has a masterwork scythe to compliment these feats. Let's also assume that this wizard is using the Monster Manual's "elite array," with his base abilities distributed as such:
Str 14, Dex 13, Con 12, Int 15, Wis 10, Cha 8
Now apply bull's strength, and what have you got?
Attack bonus: 2 (base) + 2 (Str) + 2 (bull's strength) + 1 (masterwork) +1 (weapon focus) = +8
Damage: 2d4+6 (18 Strength with bull's strength, using a two-handed weapon).
+8 attack bonus, 2d4+6/x4 damage. Not bad for a 5th level wizard with no prestige classes and nothing but core book material!
However, that wouldn't be anything by itself. No, a wizard needs a lot of protection to stand up in melee to any successful degree, and many people consider this impractical. I'm not so sure.
No, let's assume this wizard is an NPC and lasts more than the standard 3-5 rounds. We can imagine that he is the BBEG in a moderately long dungeon, and thus the party is low on spells and hit points, so their ability to take out a single foe quickly has been very diminished. This allows our BBEG time to prepare (by casting alarm at a strategic location in his dungeon complex), and explains why he might survive long enough to use that scythe and prove a point to those insolent PCs (thus proving these musings could be applied practically, and aren't just fun to think about, which they are)! :)
Unfortunately, it also handicaps him with the low wealth limitations of NPCs, but we'll work within this. Luckily, 5th level provides the decent recommendation of 4,300gp. That's enough to work with.
Since we've alloted time for him to prepare, our BBEG then casts the following spells on himself:
bear's endurance, cat's grace, false life, mage armor, and shield. Again, this can easily be done using a combination of scrolls, potions, and prepared spells. The variability of supplies makes the total price hard to calculate, but I'm certain that the BBEG can do this and get that masterwork scythe and have some change to spare at 5th level.
Now, what have we got?
AC: 10 + 1 (Dex) + 2 (cat's grace) + 4 (mage armor) + 4 (shield) = 21
Hp (assuming all average rolls and not converting .5s between different die types): 4 (1st HD for a PC class is maximized) + 10 (2.5 x 4; the other HD) + 5 (Con) + 10 (bear's endurance) + 10 (false life) = 39
Well, what do you know? We've got a 5th level character with 21 AC, 39 hp, and a +8 attack bonus that deals 2d4+6 damage. Not too bad! I dare say he could stand up in melee for an encounter or two. Plus, all the spells of are at least moderate duration, so there's no major time crunch.
No, that does eat up a huge allotment of the wizard's spells and one-shot items, to be sure. However, it still leaves enough money for a scroll or very drained wand of some offense spell like scorching ray. Also, all the wizard's 3rd level spell slots were left in tact and he should still have a decent number of 1st level spells if push comes to shove.
However, the obvious tactic here is that the wizard uses his 3rd level spells, whatever they may be, and whatever 2nd level spells he has left (if any) if the party proves difficult, and can then close and fight in melee with proficiency and skill.
While it certainly may not be the most optimal choice, it certainly isn't a bad setup, either. It's also sure to provide an interesting encounter, which is the bigger point of the game. Besides, how many times has someone built a wizard and gotten all they really wanted out of spells, with no real idea of what feats to take? Who says those feats have to pertain to spellcasting to be good choices?
Just trying to think outside the box, which is something every DM needs to do at least once in a while. Also, this was all built with core rules.
EDIT- I forgot to post my closing request. Anyone want to see what they can do as far as carrying this concept into the higher levels? General thoughts indicate it becomes harder to pull off, but I'm interested what as to what can be developed!
It is certainly possible to pull off stuff like this. If I had free creative reign with spell creation, I'd feel confident in continuing this NPC right up until 20th level. As the game stands now though, there aren't enough arcane booster spells to make this guy any more than a nuisance at high level.
P.S. As long as you don't go overboard, I'd feel free (i.e., going beyond NPC wealth guidelines) in giving your NPC scrolls to use before the fight starts since the PCs won't ever get their hands on them.
Clerics melee even better. Mages can melee, but if that's your thing why not play a barbarian?
I know clerics can melee even better, and that barbarians are superb combatants. No offence, but that wasn't the point. At all.
Yes, TS, I find that there seem to be few spells at higher levels that could continue to make this character interesting or relevant. Certainly there are protections and wards that would increase his survivability, and item boosters can be applied to Strength and enhancements given to the weapon, which all in all would bring his melee ability about in line with a cleric for whom combat ability was an afterthought. Nevertheless, it's fun to try and see how the rules can be maneuvered to bring such interesting concepts to viable life witin the game.
Also, this character might be fun as a PC. He would retain most of the opening-salvo punch of a less martial wizard and wide spell utility in and out of combat, but if spells were running low, the character could enter this "mode," particularly with the help of some Extended Spells, and become a decent second-line combatant that remains relevant in the game even after all the spells are used up.
EDIT- Here's another interesting idea that a player or NPC could have fun with- turning the scythe into a magic staff. I don't see any reason, other than tradition, that this shouldn't be allowed (although now one has opened the door to bending the core rules, which could be problematic).
To an extent, given the right feats, multiclass/prestige class choices, and spell/magic item selection, a sorcerer or wizard can make a decent secondary melee combatant, although they are still fragile. For example, a half-orc barbarian 5 using Str 16 (14+2), Dex 13, Con 16 (15+1), Int 10 (12-2), Wis 10, Cha 6 (8-2) would have 53 hp on average.
However, in some circumstances they can be even more effective than a barbarian, fighter, paladin, or ranger of the same level. For instance, a Rogue 1/Battle Sorcerer (UA) 5/Daggerspell Mage (CAd) 10/Arcane Trickster 4 has a +12 BAB, +6d6 sneak attack, spell progression of an 18th level battle sorcerer, and can act as a locks and traps specialist. He can also set up a situation where he can cause damage from two dagger blows plus 192 hp on average AND cast any spell as if quickened as part of his full attack action.
How? By using two spellstoring daggers, each storing a Vampiric Touch and both holding a Vampiric Touch charge with Double Daggercast. The character burns a 9th level spell slot for +9 on each melee attack and +9d4 on damage for each hit with Arcane Strike, uses Impromptu Sneak Attack to cause one attack to be a sneak attack, and uses Daggerspell Flurry to cast a spell. Assuming he hits once with each dagger and has the stored spells take effect, that's +6d6(sneak attack)+18d4(Arcane Strike)+36d6(four Vampiric Touch spells, which the character gains as temporary hit points). Using the Metamagic Specialist variant in PHB II and Empower Spell on the held-charge Vampiric Touches, using flanking instead of Impromptu Sneak Attack, or adding the speed ability to the daggers ups the power even more. Granted, spell resistance applies to Vampiric Touch and it's not effective against constructs and undead, but that's pretty potent offensive capability even without being able to cast any spell you know as a swift action as well.
Wow, DC Player, that's really awesome!
My sole musing was that a straight wizard from the Player's Handbook could, with relative ease, serve as a decent melee combatant. Please, feel free to post away with concepts, either advancing this character however one sees fit or with anything else that may take your fancy.
I suppose a more appropriate title would have been "Place Your Musings Here" or Place Your Creations Here." It could be a handy thing to get players and DMs alike inspired to do something unusual and fun.
Wow, DC Player, that's really awesome!
My sole musing was that a straight wizard from the Player's Handbook could, with relative ease, serve as a decent melee combatant. Please, feel free to post away with concepts, either advancing this character however one sees fit or with anything else that may take your fancy.
I suppose a more appropriate title would have been "Place Your Musings Here" or Place Your Creations Here." It could be a handy thing to get players and DMs alike inspired to do something unusual and fun.
I really like your original concept, especially as an NPC, but I would be very impressed with any player who managed to pull it off as a PC build with minimal or no multiclassing. It would be a nice reminder of the elegance and balance of the system for Wizard/Sorcerer PC's who rely overmuch on hanging back and hoping the tanks handle the heavy hitters before they are forced into melee. In my current party, we have 3 casters, a fighter and a rogue and the casters have been forced to diversify in this way because the makeup of the party means they see combat more often than they would in a half and half party. I would advise my players to check out this thread as a means to garner some suggestions for beefing up their casters. Thanks for the insight. It has sent my mind wandering in the same way yours is. I would love to spring a version of this build on them as a simple reminder that not all things in D&D are built around the classic assumptions that they work with.
-Syl
It seems like Enlarge person might help you Melee wizard too Saern.
Good call, Sexi. That leaves the attack bonus at +8, drops AC to 19 (hmm), and increases the damage to 2d6+7. And gives the wizard a 10 foot reach, which helps quite a bit to tell the truth. Ouch!
Saern,
Your necromancer will atleast make a decent impression on your players, He might even turn out to be quite deadly if let loose upon a 3rd level party.
I would also invest in improved initiative, nothing ruins your day as fast as a party mobbing your big bad.
ASAP, he could take "keen edge" as a 3rd-level spell, or invest in a +1 keen scythe. Then even if he gets hosed in 1 round because of his (extremely) substandard hp, he can still take out a PC with a lucky shot.
Saern we toyed around with ideas like this all the time next time I'm home i'll look through all my character sheets i'm pretty sure me and steve made a character right along what your talking about.
If I recall correctly there's a magic weapon enhancement out of Complete Arcane that allows a weapon enhanced with it to be used by anyone without a nonproficiency penalty. Wish I could remember what it's called, but that would free up a couple of feats for things like Weapon Focus and maybe Combat Expertise to crank up that AC a couple more points. Of course it puts off using said weapon until slightly later in the game, since I believe it's a +2 bonus total- slightly expensive for a 5th level character, but probably worth it in the long run.
This thread is really just an extended advertisment for the key beauty of the D&D game. Versatility. With the options in D&D these days virtually anything is possible for a PC, from a kick-ass melee combat mage to an arcane spell-casting sneak-attacking barbarian. But since everyone already knows this (unless they live under a very big rock), why bother?
If you're open to a bit of rules tweaking, you could theoretically take the "Staff Familiar" variant from some issue of Dragon or another, and adapt it to focus on this necromancer's Scythe instead -- perhaps requiring a feat similar to Improved Familiar. "Death's Aspect" (or whatever you wished to call the feat) would allow the wizard to make his Scythe into a "familiar", gaining the standard progression of benefits, and also to imbue it with further magic with the Craft Staff feat.
His big tricks at mid to high levels will include Tenser's Transformation, which temporarily turns him into a Raging Barbarian, and Quickened True Strike accompanied by maximized use of Power Attack, (perhaps on a charge) for a near-guaranteed hit dealing significant damage. For further amusement, he could polymorph into, say, a cat or toad and use magic jar to possess a hardier character. (Or can he? I don't have the patience to keep track of the layers upon layers of errata and "fixes" for polymorph)
Jherrith- Really? I know you and Steve were character-creation fanatics and gurus, but I never heard about this particular concept. Next time we get together, do tell.
Padan- Good call, I had completely forgotten about this. The enhancement is called skillful. It allows proficient of the weapon so enchanted, as well as setting one's base attack bonus to 3/4 (as a cleric or rogue's) if the base attack is less than this. It carries a +2 value with it. That would be a definite must for this character concept.
White Toymaker- Yes, the polymorph and magic jar tricks still works, so far as I can remember.
As a quick answer to the previous post, you polymorph into a small, weak animal, and then use magic jar to swap souls with a strong opponent, trapping him in your toad body, and now you're the enemies' ex-main fighter. Stab, and attack your foes with their allies. Great assassin technique too.
But, Saern, have you looked at complete mage? They treat his concept with the same efficiency they analyze a blaster mage. A list of spells from 0-9 you should take, feats you should take, feats you should avoid, etc. No, on the downside they focus on he concept of polymorphing into better forms to fight with, but the concept's the same. If Wizard w/ bull's strength, mage armor, and scythe=good, then OGRE w/ bull's strength, mage armor, and scythe=better.
As a quick answer to the previous post, you polymorph into a small, weak animal, and then use magic jar to swap souls with a strong opponent, trapping him in your toad body, and now you're the enemies' ex-main fighter.
Actually, he's trapped in the "jar" of the magic jar. The reason to turn into a small, weak, animal is primarily so that you can carry your original body with you in case this one gets killed. That, and in the case of the toad and cat, if you are "killed" you get dumped back into a body that you can try and pass off as being just the wizard's familiar. This requires that you possess a stranger, rather than one of the members of the defending party, but I'm willing to sacrifice a bit of immediate power for increased survivability.
Of course, turning into a creature that can't speak or manage fine manipulations means that you're looking at casting a stilled, silent magic jar, making it an even higher level tactic, but until that point you could manage either a Grig for size or (if playing a planetouched wizard) a Mephit if you wanted to maintain the "familiar" disguise without sacrificing spellcasting ability. Air Mephit would be ideal -- perhaps even better than a normal familiar -- as it even grants "Fly 60 ft. (Perfect)" if you find that you need to make a hasty retreat.
Now that I think about it, I remember that in the Complete Mage. Yes, that path is the best for a combat wizard, although in my original concept, the essence was having a necromancer that could effectively use a scythe to capture the "death/grim reaper" aspect. However, as just a though concept, polymorphing into something remains the best route to keep this a viable tactic at later levels.
The best creature to use the magic jar trick on, that I've heard of, is a troll.