My players have decided that they don't want to do favors for anyone anymore. I think I may have overdone it, but it also conflicts with the players style, because they don't want to be in the debt of anyone.
I've used a "favor quest" for every adventure except whispering cairn.
Smenk for the second
Allustin, the guard Captain, and Hishka in the third
What I'm worried about is the rest of the campaign.
In the Champions games, they're not going to want to search the temple for the lady. For Spire of Shadows, they're not going to want to help Manzorian.
Any suggestions? I'm kind of lost here. I know I should phrase it as a bonus for them and not a quest.
Any suggestions? I'm kind of lost here. I know I should phrase it as a bonus for them and not a quest.
It seems to me that if you all sit down and decide to run the whole adventure path, then your players should meet you halfway in terms of deciding what motivates their characters. It's frustrating to have one player whose character is completely disinterested in your campaign hooks.
Surely one of the top three motivations has to apply for them in this case:
1) greed
2) curiosity
3) bum-kicking for goodness
our motivations in the adventure path have been curiosity and a want to adventure and get out of the drudgery of Diamond Lake.
We investigated the cairn because I had dreams of it, and I wanted to find out if they were true. We investigated the observatory because we felt it was the right thing to do to put the boys soul to rest. We investigated Dourstone mine and the cults within, not so much because Smenk told us we were going to, but because we were trying to figure out more about this Age of Worms, the Overgod, and the Harbinger.
I play an Archivist. That means I am interested in all religeous mumbo-jumbo, no matter what faith. If there is some prophecy talking about three gods being melded into one, I am all over it. We have a paladin in our group...it involves evil gods...he's all over it. We have a militiaman from DL...it involves keeping DL safe, he's all over it. The scout, the sorceress and the warmage come along because it is something to do besides watch time pass in DL.
Everyone needs to find their own motivation. If the characters don't have motivation to do the next part of the adventure, let them sit in a bar and drink their money away. You can only motivate them so far. They need to give you something to work with about why they are out and about, adventuring and exploring.
Sit them down and tell them to write you a half a page of what motivates their character to go out and adventure, instead of working in a mine or sitting on a barstool.
From "Zen and the Art of Dungeon Mastering:"
Who Is Your Character - Character Creation Tips from Zen and the Art of Dungeon Mastery
In response to questions on how to improve a character’s background and other roleplaying questions I’m posing a series of questions. Sit down and answer each of them carefully, and you’ll have a much better idea of who your character is. Turning a “character” into a memorable “person” is the one thing that separates true roleplaying from munchkinism (there’s that word again), but it can be done.
1. Who were the character’s parents?
1. Did they raise the character?
2. If not, why?
3. If not them, who?
2. Did the character have any childhood friend?
1. Any siblings?
2. Where are they now?
3. Does the character stay in touch with them or have they become separated?
3. What was childhood like for the character?
1. Calm and peaceful or turbulent and traumatic?
4. Does the character have any or did the character have any role models?
1. Describe them.
5. What did the character do before they entered the story?
1. Who trained the character to do what they do now?
6. What are the character’s moral and religious beliefs?
1. What lengths will the character go to defend those beliefs?
2. Who or what taught those beliefs to the character?
7. Does the character have any unusual habits or physical traits?
1. How do others tend to react to them?
8. What is the general reaction to the character of other characters?
1. Why, in the character’s opinion, do they act that way?
9. Can the character kill?
1. Why would the character kill?
2. Do they have any enemies at all?
1. Would or could the character kill them?
10. What kind of relationships does the character currently have?
1. Do they have any close friends?
1. If so, who?
2. What are they like?
2. Bitter enemies?
1. If so, who?
2. What are they like?
11. Does the character have any mental problems (phobias, etc)?
1. If so, what are they?
2. What do they stem from?
12. How does the character generally treat others?
1. Do they trust easily, or not?
13. What does the character look like?
1. Do they have any scars or tattoos?
1. How did they get them?
14. What is the character’s normal daily routine?
1. How do they feel when it’s interrupted for whatever reason?
Next, sit down with your DM and consider these questions:
1. Was the character present during any key events in the history of the campaign world?
1. How did that event affect the character?
2. Does the character have a notorious or celebrated ancestor?
1. What did they do?
2. What do people assume about the character when their ancestry is known?
3. Does the character actively try to live up to the reputation, try to dispel it or to ignore it?
Finally, consider these questions:
1. What are the character’s dreams?
1. Ambitions?
2. Goals?
2. How do they seek to obtain them?
1. How does adventuring fit into this dream, or does it at all?
3. Does the character ever want to have a family of their own someday?
1. If so with who or what type of person?
4. Has the character ever considered the possibility of their own death?
1. Have they made a will?
Only after going through this process should a player choose an alignment, since that is formed from past experiences more than anything else.
--
Make a habit of starting the game session with quizzing your players about their character with a single question like the ones listed above.
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Lilith that is exactly what I was looking for.
My players seem to have a habit of not really knowing "who their character is", and just seem to make it up as they go.
One player in particular is constantly playing an #$%hole type character that never really wants to be a "team" player. This can be a pain as I only have 3 players.
Those questions should hopefully help out some so I know what type of hooks to throw at them. Thank you!
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My players have taken a very mercenary approach to things and tend to view the whole "Age of Worms" thing as being too big for them, so I've had to improvise to motive them into the adventures.
When they had no interest in checking out Dourstone Mines (they didn't see much in it for them, and their original goal was still to get out of that sleazy little town), I arranged events to have Allustan get captured by the cult while trying to help them. Even that was a flimsy motivator, but it did the trick and I ended up having him give each PC a magic item in thanks, which smoothed things over nicely.
The trip to Blackwall Keep was mostly done as a favor, but they seemed reluctant to go any further into the adventure without some sort of reward, so I had the keep's captain offer them each another special item as futher incentive, and this, too, got the job done.
Whenever I introduce a new reward, I try to juggle the treasure found in the adventure to compensate. As long as it balances out, there's nothing wrong with this approach in the short term. I worry, though, that if they don't start to take the Age of Worms plot more personally, it's going to get harder and harder to keep them motivated for the more heroic adventures down the road.
Lilith that is exactly what I was looking for.
My players seem to have a habit of not really knowing "who their character is", and just seem to make it up as they go.
One player in particular is constantly playing an #$%hole type character that never really wants to be a "team" player. This can be a pain as I only have 3 players.
Those questions should hopefully help out some so I know what type of hooks to throw at them. Thank you!
You're welcome!
Ahem...
"If the players do not provide a background for their characters, the DM is free to ad lib and use it to progress the story and develop roleplay as they see fit."
Also known as Newton's Third Law of Gaming: For every action there is an equal but opposite reaction...that tends to screw the players over at DM's discretion.
In this case, the player's inaction will get a reaction in game at your discretion.
Happy gaming!
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I just tellem, "look, man. Do you want me to spend my time whipping up forced and contrived-seeming motivations for the freakin adventure, or making up cool crap to do? To hell with you anyway; I'm just going on the offensive. REACT TO THIS!!! ROLL INISH!!!"
Seriously, when I play I'm total favor-doing boy.
Surely one of the top three motivations has to apply for them in this case:
1) greed
2) curiosity
3) bum-kicking for goodness
Vengeance can often be a pretty strong motivator, too. I had one of the PCs almost get recruited to the Ebon Triad Cult by a friend who thought it was some kind of revolutionary Worker's Union that was going to overthrow the mine owners. He soon found out otherwise and motivation hasn't been a problem since. The Faceless One has dodged them a couple times first from 3FE to the Mistmarsh which segued nicely into EBK and then to Greyhawk. Nothing works like making it personal!!
Your players aren't crazy. They're putting the lives of their characters on the line and they want reward in return for the risk they incur. Wolfgang Baur, I believe, has an article on the WotC website about "stacking hooks" -- providing multiple motivations for an adventure so that every player in your group has a reason to be excited and interested. Useful reading.
Vengeance can often be a pretty strong motivator, too. I had one of the PCs almost get recruited to the Ebon Triad Cult by a friend who thought it was some kind of revolutionary Worker's Union that was going to overthrow the mine owners. He soon found out otherwise and motivation hasn't been a problem since. The Faceless One has dodged them a couple times first from 3FE to the Mistmarsh which segued nicely into EBK and then to Greyhawk. Nothing works like making it personal!!
I agree that, in a game, revenge can be pretty sweet! >:-) But if that's your main motivation, then if you manage to get your revenge on your arch-foe halfway through the campaign (say), it leaves you trying to come up reasons to stick around for the second half.
Personally, I think there's a difference between running a free-form campaign (in which case I can develop an individual character's goals in whichever way they happen to lead) and running a prepackaged campaign (where the path is more-or-less predetermined, so a player might have to work a little harder at finding motivations for their character to stick around to the end).
From your original post, it sounds like you're on "Sodden Hold" now. Motivation isn't much a problem there as it starts to get REAL personal for the PCs because they have now been targeted.
Getting them to the Free City shouldn't be difficult. Come up with a selfish reason for them to go. For my group, one of the PCs wanted to enter the Championship Games as soon she heard rumors of it (her background in Diamond Lake was as a pit fighter in one of the bars), plus they wanted equipment they couldn't get in Diamond Lake AND I ran one of the Challenge of Champions sessions as part of a opening celebration for the Champion Games so they entered in that, too. They didn't need Allustan's urging to go, and he was almost having to run after them as they left to yell, "By the way... go talk to Elgios while you're there!!"
You can easily cut out the altruism and play up the PCs getting framed, so the only way out for them is to figure out who's behind it. I cut out Celeste and the whole bard looking for his sister thing (Elgios sponsored them in the Games directly), as well as the exploration under the complex. You can easily go from the group wanting to stop the cultists because they set them up to wanting to stop the cultists because life is going to get VERY difficult for everyone (20,000 wights anyone???) if they don't.
And if they don't care about the end of the world as they know it, they shouldn't be adventurers. At this point, it goes back to what someone else said about the group having to meet you halfway somewhere.
Ah...
Here's the thing for my group. They won't get that 10,000 wights will rise. In fact, I have made the Free City a Dark place. Perhaps they'll wish that it's destroyed.
I'll put a little light in. An orphanage of good people or something.
Make the orphanage near the Arena... call it the Champion's Orphanage or something... so that it would be the first thing that would be destroyed by 20,000 blood fiending wright. Make it big... a couple hundred children....