Hey guys! I've got a question regarding the Faith Healing spell from the Spell Compendium. The spell reads:
"When laying your hand upon a living creature, you channel positive energy that cures 8 +1 point per caster level (max +5). The spell works only on a creature that worships the same diety as you. A target with no diety or a diety different from yours is unaffected by the spell..."
I am wondering how this spell might work with a cleric of the general faith. That is, my cleric took the option at first level to not worship a specific deity but instead worships ALL of the neutral and good gods of the Greyhawk pantheon.
Could I cast this spell on any PC that worships a god I patronize?
If this is not an acceptable interpretation, then I thought maybe I'd be allowed to pray specifially to one god or another for the granting of this spell. For example, if I think one character who worships WeeJas, might get in a fight later in the day, I could wake up and pray specifically to Wee Jas for the granting of that spell, so that when he gets hurt he is able to receive the benefit. Additionally, I'd have to pray to Odab Hai, using another, seperate spell slot if I wanted to cast it on a different character who worships that deity.
My DM thinks that it would default to aligments, but that is going way out of the bounds of what the spell reads...
Which is the best intepretation? Any other ideas?
Fleece
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I am sorry...
I always DEMAND my cleric players to worship a specific deity (and no diety), since I think a cleric can not worship all gods.
I can't imagine a cleric worshipping a peaceful god like Rao (LG) and a rogue-like Olidammara, or a Suel deity like Wee Jas (LN) and a baklunish deity like Al Akbar (NG, IIRC).
Even gods like St Cuthbert or Trithereon are SO much different...
It just does seem so absurd to me...
sorry !!
RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
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I am wondering how this spell might work with a cleric of the general faith. That is, my cleric took the option at first level to not worship a specific deity but instead worships ALL of the neutral and good gods of the Greyhawk pantheon.
As a general rule, it is for reasons like this that, while it might be okay for your average adventurer to worship a wide range of deities, CLERICS should be restricted to a single deity or a specific pantheon (saying 'the Greyhawk pantheon' is WAY too broad, imo).
To answer your question constructively, however, I feel that if your character were to pray to a specific deity for the Faith Healing spell that day, it should be applicable to whichever deity you prayed to at the beginning of the day as you stated in your example. This involves a small amount of bookkeeping on your part, however, as you must remember which deity granted you the Faith Healing spell that day and thus which characters are able to receive its benefits.
"Sorry Tom, but Heironeous can't help you today. However, if you convert to Pelor RIGHT NOW I might be able to help you stop the bleeding. Are you with me?"
While it's not an answer, the same question comes up when you're talking about Eberron deities, since worshiping the Sovereign Host (rather than one deity of the host) is common.
Even quirkier... are the Dark Six the same faith as the Sovereign Host, or different? It's the same faith, just the "evil" gods instead of the good... and even good people make sacrifices to them to appease them. I doubt one instance is enough to take you out of the Sovereign Host's purview...
I am sorry...
I always DEMAND my cleric players to worship a specific deity (and no diety), since I think a cleric can not worship all gods.
I can't imagine a cleric worshipping a peaceful god like Rao (LG) and a rogue-like Olidammara, or a Suel deity like Wee Jas (LN) and a baklunish deity like Al Akbar (NG, IIRC).
Even gods like St Cuthbert or Trithereon are SO much different...It just does seem so absurd to me...
sorry !!
I'm afraid I have to veer off topic to semi-agree with you, too. I find worshiping "alignments in general" a stupid concept, and one that I never allow in my games. Clerics must choose one god to represent and draw their powers from. And, you never run into questions like this, either! Sorry for not contributing anything.
Director of Narrative
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While not in the anti-non-deitiy cleric camp, I would not have thought twice about this spell if I was playing an "abstractionist" cleric. I think Fatespinner's reasoning on how to work that spell to those certain mechanics is very good. Another categorization that could be used to determine the recipients of the spell could be portfollios or domains instead of worshippers of a specific deity. For example, let's say the abstractionist cleric chose the domains of magic and protection. Those being the domains the cleric supports then followers of Boccob and Wee Jas can recieve the benefits of the spell due to their sharing of the magic domain.
I do however think that it would be a poor spell choice for a non-deity specific cleric in that it doesn't really "fit" that type of character, just as shadow spells don't really fit a cleric of Pelor.
I do however think that it would be a poor spell choice for a non-deity specific cleric in that it doesn't really "fit" that type of character, just as shadow spells don't really fit a cleric of Pelor.
Exactly. If the character worships general group of gods, ideas etc she wouldn't use a spell connected to worshippers of specific faith.
Yeah, my first thought was that the spell just wouldn't work for your Cleric at all. If a player really wanted to argue the case, though, I could be persuaded to allow it to apply to a character of the same alignment.
However, it wouldn't come up in my campaign, since I also require Clerics to select a specific deity. (Unless the spell also features on the Paladin and/or Druid lists, since I don't require them to specify a deity. And, in fact, I encourage Paladins not to do so.)
Good Morning! Thanks for all the advice, everyone! Nice to come up to the office and see some thought-out, intelligent replies.
I'm not sure that I agree, as a player or a DM, with the assessments that clerics should be restricted to a sole deity. For one, the rules clearly outline this option. Secondly, played right, the general, generic cleric can be a wonderful roleplaying experience. In this case, I've got this good character with a big heart who flits around from church to church, studying the teachings of Rao one week, then moving on to Lydia the next, trying to experience the knowledge of many different faiths. Unlike how I let on in my original post, I do tend to restrict my character by general aligment and prefer the Suel pantheon, but even then, I don't see anything wrong with the a cleric of this nature.
It also opens up the opportunity for me character to preach to all the faiths of his "flock" in the adventuring group. There is a historical precendent for this in military chaplains, who study all religions and administer rites and sacrament to all soldiers within their division, despite their religious preference.
Also, the game mechanic of granted spells is easily covered, much like in the example of my original post. During morning prayers, you ask Pelor to grant you light, before turning to Osprem to grant you obscuring mist. Quite simple, really.
I think denying your player such opportunities is a little restrictive, especially when the core rules explicitly make allowance for it...
Thanks again, everybody -keep it going!
Fleece
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RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
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I'm aware that the rules allow for clerics to worship pantheons and that would be fine (I've allowed clerics to do it in the past) if they are worshipping a SPECIFIC pantheon such as Forgotten Realms' Elven Pantheon or Eberron's Sovereign Host. The idea of worshipping a pantheon is that you worship a pantheon that has a common theme. Worshipping the 'Greyhawk' pantheon seems like WAY too broad for this purpose. You're telling me that the same cleric who prays to Pelor for healing is asking Vecna for speak with dead? Or Erythnul for divine might?!? Ridiculous, imo.
Unless my interpretation of the 'Greyhawk pantheon' is flawed, this is exactly what you're talking about, yes?
NOTE: I'll be starting a new thread on this issue.
Hey Fatespinner.
I totally hear you, man. Here's how I've worked it with my character:
My character, as a student of faith and religion, certainly recognizes the authority and spheres of influence of each of the Greyhawk gods and respects their domains and contributions to the pantheon as a whole. Each certainly has their place. I spent a lot of time while earning my degree studying ancient history and religion, and there are so many precedents for this in so many dynamic cultures that, in turn, influenced the way the game of D&D was written.
The Romans, the Greeks, the Egyptians, the Babylonians -they ALL had large pantheons and the preist therein respected the authority and domains of a wide assortement of gods -offering appropriate sacrifices to the proper realm of influence depending on who or what they were praying for.
Are you a generic priest in Greyhawk? If so, you spend a lot of your time administering to the faithful of many different religions. You can offer any appropriate sacraments that those followers of Boccob in your party need. Then, you volunteer in down time to overtake the upkeep of that wayside shrine of Fharlanghn that has fallen into disrepair just outside of town. He can remind the thief that he really should be donating proceeds to the church of Olidammara if he expects them to cough up those masterwork lockpicks, or he could volunteer nature spells during harvest by helping out those down-on-their-luck followers of Beory who have had a bad crop. When you pray, like in my earlier example -you ask for Pelor's blessing and he grants you, say, a light spell, before turning to Osprem to grant you obscuring mist for paying him homage. Need a speak with dead spell? Sure, you COULD ask Vecna, but you wouldn't want to be beholden to a god as untrustworthy as him, right? You could ask Wee Jas instead -she a bit more understanding of such matters. Alignment certainly does come into play here, and you aren't going to pay homage to evil deity -but you will certainly respect their roles in the great fabric of the universe. I wouldn't even see anything wrong with, say, administering last rites to a dying priest of Incabulos: "May the evil path you thread in life reap you the sour rewards of your god's foul afterlife...I know where you'll be going..."
In my case, my character is neutral, so that helps, but that doesn't have to be the case to work a character like this.
I could go on all day. I hope I've shed a little light on the subject for you...I really have found it to be a very rich roleplaying opportunity and I encourage you to open it up a little bit and let a character who wants to try it do so...
Fleece
(and let me know where you start that thread!)
For one, the rules clearly outline this option.
Good morning to you, too! (Although it's night when I write this, at least in this part of the world) It's good to see someone with such a positive attitude.
Back to the issue of "generic" clerics. Not to be too combative, but the core rule's statement on this specific is a non-factor to me. Normally, I give great heed to the core rules, but in this specific case, I really don't care what they say. There are plenty of gods out there, in almost any setting (unless a core theme of the setting is a small number of gods, but I'm not aware of any such official campaign worlds). Someone likely has the ideas you hold ideal more or less covered; for the player only worried about domain selection, there are plenty of possible combinations with already existing deities.
The idea rubs me as wrong. The idea rubbed everyone in my old group as wrong. No one thought it was restrictive; rather, they felt the option itself was dumb. I've yet to meet a player (in person) that thought otherwise, so that will likely remain a house rule with me (and it would take a powerful and dedicated majority of a group's players to make me change that rule). Some things just don't seem to fit in D&D, at least, not in a "standard" game. I'm about as likely to allow ray guns as I am a cleric without a specified deity. I just really don't like the concept.
I hope that didn't sound too confrontational; I didn't intend it as such. Just stating my views.