Has anyone played a binder from the Tome of Magic, or does any one have any thoughts on them?
Fizz
Has anyone played a binder from the Tome of Magic, or does any one have any thoughts on them?
Fizz
I was just recently looking at that class, as a matter of fact. Not for me but for one of my players. No, I have never played or DM'd a binder. I think in theory they're a cool concept but from just reading about them they seem kinda limited. They get nowhere near the selection of spells a spellcaster gets and the other class abilities just didn't seem to balance them out enough. I realize they aren't necessarily another spellcaster class but I use that comparison simply because it seems like the most likely class to compare them to. I really like some of the abilities they get and the vistages give them their own uniqeness but I think by 9th or 10th level they're pretty much done. Being a fan of high level play, this doesn't make them appealing. Maybe I missed something about them but I wouldn't count on a binder to get me out of a high level bind (pun intended).
Also, I couldn't figure out if these guys have to make their binder checks everyday to get their vistages' powers or if it's just once per vistage. Cripes, having to deal with that on a regular basis would be kind of a pain, wouldn't it?
Sadly my Tome of Magic is at another players house right now, but I will try to answer the best I can from memory.
I actually have run a binder through the mid levels. I was running a bard when I bought Tome of Magic and his Charisma rolled right into the new class. The greatest thing about Binders is their flexibility. Depending on the selection of vestiges you choose for the day, you can duplicate anything from a rouge to a paladin. With a high Charisma and some bluff ranks (class skill) you can convince others of it even:
"I'm not saying he's NOT a paladin, but I've never seen one with a necklace of orc ears before." (lol)
They seem to work really well in a smaller group where players have to pick up a couple roles for the party. Also as long as the DM keeps players paranoid of the world learning "their secret" you shouldn't have too much problem keeping the player under control. In their description, Binders are pretty much a heretic of EVERY church. That can also lead to some interesting alliances amongst NPC's.
The flexibility comes at the cost of overall power. Much like the bard, they never really gain one area in which they dominate when it comes to combat. Again, they make great characters for the social role play applications though. Especially when some of the vestiges start imposing their wills upon the character, (Greed, Raspy voice, "One upper", etc)
All in all, it's not really a class to be afraid of. Browse the character. After you get a chance to see how the player runs it a session, get more in depth to make sure you know the character's limits. It will make a lot more sense the second time around.
Has anyone played a binder from the Tome of Magic, or does any one have any thoughts on them?
Fizz
I was just recently looking at that class, as a matter of fact. Not for me but for one of my players. No, I have never played or DM'd a binder. I think in theory they're a cool concept but from just reading about them they seem kinda limited. They get nowhere near the selection of spells a spellcaster gets and the other class abilities just didn't seem to balance them out enough. I realize they aren't necessarily another spellcaster class but I use that comparison simply because it seems like the most likely class to compare them to. I really like some of the abilities they get and the vistages give them their own uniqeness but I think by 9th or 10th level they're pretty much done. Being a fan of high level play, this doesn't make them appealing. Maybe I missed something about them but I wouldn't count on a binder to get me out of a high level bind (pun intended).
Also, I couldn't figure out if these guys have to make their binder checks everyday to get their vistages' powers or if it's just once per vistage. Cripes, having to deal with that on a regular basis would be kind of a pain, wouldn't it?
Checks are done with every binding, but by the time you get mid to upper level, your modifier will make most checks.
I had a pc play a binder in my campaign. It was really interesting, because every day he could be a different character, with new and interesting tactics, and the other characters got new ways to adapt to them.
The most sucessful was using the vestige that granted flame aura (1d6 damage on hit or something like that). The party tactic was "Keep rob alive untill the enemies kill themselves on his aura"
I've DMed a couple of binders for short periods of time in one-off campaigns since I got Tome of Magic. Both cases were below level 10, however, I can say with confidence that the binder is not a weak class. The problem is in comparing them to a spellcaster. They aren't. They aren't anything like a spellcaster. In fact, there's nothing they really come close to, other than some aspects of a bard due to versatility. That's good. Innovative classes are good. Like the warlock from the Complete Arcane, the binder carves his own niche in the party. You have to look over all their abilities as a whole, and then see it in play perhaps, to realize the truth of their nature.
I probably wouldn't play one, but that's a personal preference (I also don't like playing rogues, but think the class is great and love to see one in the party, for example). Binders can choose the role they want to fill in a party each and every day. In fact, with the feat Expel Vestige, they can even change in the middle of the day, provided they've got a few minutes' downtime.
If the binder has decent stats across the board, he can use the vestiges to fill on whatever roll in which the party needs support. Or, if he has focused stats, like another character, he can fill a few roles, but still alternate from day to day (from expert archer to stealthy spie, for example).
One thing that you can't overlook are the abilities they get to throw in with their vestiges. When you combine the class's innate special abilities with the ability to bind multiple vesitges and then combine that with the miscellaneous abilities they can throw in, you're looking at a very capable character.
Come to think of it, since there is a thread talking about 1-on-1 D&D sessions, the binder is probably one of the best classes for that situation, and I echo that it is also great for a party of two or three players.
Not to change the subject, but what are some of the vestiges you used most? Which were most useful, fun, etc. Thanks for the help, keep the thoughts coming. I've thought about playing one in an up coming game and wanted some feed back.
Fizz
You should check out the Binder Redux thread on the boards here.