In my AoE campaign I have 6 players. They will all be 13th level by the time they reach Mak'ar. I'd like to make that fight a little more challenging for them, but giving Mak'ar another person in the room to help protect him.
I was thinking about moving 1 of the Knights of Kyuss from room 12 to be there with him. What I've noticed about these adventure paths is that if you run with more that 4 players, single caster opponents seem to get smoked way to easy. I think this is because there are 2 more people targeting just that one creature it's more than the casters can handle to put up a good fight.
Any ideas or suggestions, I don't want to increase Mak'ar he's pretty powerful with spells and his current spell level.
Thanks,
~MB
yeah, just move some or all of the kyuss knights and you should be fine.
After the party retreats to rest (and trust me, they will not explore the whole spire in one go), have Makar use two Limited Wishes on one of his recently vanquished minions. The limited wishes burn 250 xp each (which Makar has plenty to spare), and allow him to pull off the Revenance/Revivify combo (see Spell Compendium)to bring an ally fully back to life at no level-loss and with no need for expensive material components. This trick won't work on undead or outsiders, so it limits you to the Worm Nagas or the Overworm, but makes for an unpleasant surprise when a recently hard-won battle is made all for naught.
You also could bring any of the Undead minions back with a Limited Wish via Revive Undead (also in Spell Compendium), but they lose a hit die, and you have to do some tinkering to the stats to reflect that level loss.
yeah, just move some or all of the kyuss knights and you should be fine.
Do you think all 3 of those Kyuss Knights and Mak'ar would be to much for a group of 6 characters that are all 13th level though?
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 6
|
Put me in the school of calling that combo illegal. The person died more than one round ago, and when they re-die when revenance expires, they've been dead as long as they were dead in the first place, not one round.
Russ
After the party retreats to rest (and trust me, they will not explore the whole spire in one go), have Makar use two Limited Wishes on one of his recently vanquished minions. The limited wishes burn 250 xp each (which Makar has plenty to spare), and allow him to pull off the Revenance/Revivify combo (see Spell Compendium)to bring an ally fully back to life at no level-loss and with no need for expensive material components. This trick won't work on undead or outsiders, so it limits you to the Worm Nagas or the Overworm, but makes for an unpleasant surprise when a recently hard-won battle is made all for naught.
Personally, I don't allow the revenance/revivify combo at my table. If a cleric can get to the PC within 1 round of death, revivify will bring the PC back with no level loss. Otherwise, expect to lose a level.
Three Kyuss Knights and Mak'ar might be a TPK, but it really depends on your group and their tactics. Antimagic field will all but nullify mak'ar.
This sounds blasphemous, but I would completely change the last room that the fight against Mak'ar takes place in. A flat, 30 by 30 room makes for an instantly dead spellcaster, especially since your entire party can close upon him in one turn, more-so if they win initiative.
I don't think Mak'ar himself needs any reworking, but the environment itself screams cakewalk after the sea of worms. With six players, consider that they will basically attempt to surround him with martial characters at first opportunity. I would either double or triple the size of the room, if you're going to have the fight in there at all (those seeking near-TPK will throw Mak'ar into the Sea of Worms encounter)or significantly alter his fighting environment. Changing the room's floor into a carpet of writhing worms (endless wormswarms) would make the encounter much more interesting, and if your gonna give him minions, these would qualify. You could also give him the ability to consume wormswarms like his guardians, healing himself...This aside, his picture clearly depcits worms crawling in mass at his feet.
For the record, I think the Revenance/Revivify combo is stupid. Really, isn't coming back from the dead supposed to be strenuous? Could you really do it twice in the span of two minutes and have your mind and spirit completely intact?That aside, I believe there a group of very powerful inevitables (Fiend Folio I believe, if not, MM) that specifically hunt down those who try to alter the laws of death.
I have just decided that 3 powerful inevitables will be making a house call on my local cleric PC.
Really, you just need someone to keep the pcs busy for a round or two. Mak'ar should be able to down one pc a round (6 magic missile spells is like 105 average damage), and it gets even worse if he tosses three simultaneous scorching rays or something similar. Changing his spell prep list should do it; give him solid fog and sleet storm and pcs should have a lot of trouble closing with him.
i gave mak'ar freezing fog. It's very similar to a combination of solid fog and sleet storm. I also gave him the chain spell feat and moment of prescience.
I like the idea of wormswarms on the ground, although I wouldn't change it to let him heal from them.
I believe the inevitable you are referring to is the Marut. One problem: wouldn't the cleric's god be kinda pissed off if marut's were trying to prevent his servants from using the spells he/she granted to them?
I was going to make a secret passage leading from area 12 to area 13, which the knights would use to join Mak'ar. Surprisingly, the PCs went after the Knights first, so...
Anyway, Mak'ar was singularly, one of the biggest cakewalks for my PCs in the game. *sigh* That's because I ran it as is. Truthfully, the room is a trap for the spell weaver lich. And though his tactics call for him to try to do everything to keep his phylactery-less carcass out of harm's way, he would be better served by joining the fight in area 11. Here's how I'd do it:
Make a Listen check, or use some type of scrying/clairaudience, etc. on his first round.
Second round, start casting buffs, especially displacement.
Third round, join the fight, and choose between offense or defense. For defense, repulsion or wall of force works nicely. For offense, the power words, chain lightning, or prismatic spray--though I usually swap prismatic spray for radiant assault (in Spell Compendium).
The general idea should be that Mak'ar has lived thousands of years--he should be smart enough to preserve his unlife by bringing the fight to the party.
I believe the inevitable you are referring to is the Marut. One problem: wouldn't the cleric's god be kinda pissed off if marut's were trying to prevent his servants from using the spells he/she granted to them?
He'd be just as pissed off at the Marut as he would at every other baddie that tries to hurt or kill his servants. In other words, no. Gods are far too powerful and busy with things that actually concern them than to worry about one or two of their followers. Think about it- if every god (or even ANY god) spent that much time dealing with each individual follower or their followers' dealings, nobody would ever get anything done because every single thing would have a god backing it up.
Think of it this way- the other gods aren't even concerned with the material plane enough to stop Kyuss from causing the Age of Worms. Why would one of them personally step in to stop a Marut from doing his job?
Think of it this way- the other gods aren't even concerned with the material plane enough to stop Kyuss from causing the Age of Worms. Why would one of them personally step in to stop a Marut from doing his job?
good point, although I believe there is a difference between the killing of servants and going after a god's servants because of the spells the god is granting. but the real question is: why AREN'T the gods concerned enough to stop Kyuss?! Seems like it would be a big concern to any god, even most of the evil ones (especially if the campaign takes place in faerun).
|
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 6
|
good point, although I believe there is a difference between the killing of servants and going after a god's servants because of the spells the god is granting. but the real question is: why AREN'T the gods concerned enough to stop Kyuss?! Seems like it would be a big concern to any god, even most of the evil ones (especially if the campaign takes place in faerun).
I like to think they are getting involved, via mortal agents like the party and Darl Quethos, and even in terms of planar allies like Celeste. But in terms of the World of Greyhawk, there is a strong non-interference tradition at work - the gods are supposed to work through mortals, rather than directly intervene.
Russ
Well, a god might be irritated that you are being hunted by a marut, but then again you apparently have access to the spell compendium based off of the fact that you are using the revenance/revivify combo anyway. The marut doesn't stand a chance against the kind of stuff that you can pull.
Frankly, some of the stuff in Age of Worms seems a bit janky in terms of CR (Mak'ar for instance is a lower cr than a sorcerer or wizard of his caster level, and is a lich, and can cast six spells a round if they are low level). Allowing the PCs access to some cheesy raise magic is okay, because remember they are *saving the world.* If i was their patron, I'd let them have it.
Think of it this way: If a god grants you the power to cast Slay Living (which he does), and you use it to slay an important figure, and you get imprisoned because of it, would the god be miffed because you got imprisoned for using the spells he gave you? Eh, maybe. But probably not. At least definitely not enough to directly do anything about it. It's the same with the Marut- he gives you the power, but if you use it in such a way as to anger higher powers, then it's your own dang fault. There's a reason Maruts are around, after all, and there's a reason they do what they do.
Besides, if a god gave you the power to cause the anger of a Marut, he sure gave you the power to get out of your situation, didn't he? And if you're not able to get out of it, obviously you did something wrong.
I see what you're saying, and it makes sense, but I'm just not feeling it. :P
Well, not all gods would acknowledge the authority of a marut. Kord (for instance) would probably not be too happy about some agent of ultimate law messing around with his clergy. It doesn't mean that your god would intervene (Kord in particular would appreciate you solving the problem by yourself) but it does give you the moral authority to render the marut unto dust for questioning your god's wisdom in granting you the relevant magics.
But I guess we're getting a bit off topic. This discussion seems like it should go in some more general thread.