So I've decided to implement some more *drastic* changes to my homebrew. I like the fairly "standard" D&D world, such as Greyhawk and Forgotten Realms, but there are just some directions I want to go to help differentiate it. Note: These changes will not come into effect for the online game I plan on running.
Anyway, one thing that I was looking at is the halfling race. I don't like them. They rarely have any real culture to speak of in a setting, and they are so intwined with Tolkien. They're just kind of... there. So I'm considering axing them from my games.
What I'm posting here for is thoughts from the Paizonian populace over the wisdom, or lack of, in this decision. If a player wants to be a small race, there's certainly still gnomes, and if a player wants a race with a Dex bonus, there are still elves. Both of these classes can easily perform the halfling's traditional role of Rogue. So I don't necessarily think that removing the halfling destroys an essential component of the game.
The halfling's most "essential" ability seems to come from their small size (+4 to Hide checks) and their +2 Dex (another +1), which allows Halfling rogues to have Hide modifiers 5 points higher than most other races. Some might initially balk at this, but the gnome carries the same +4 bonus as the halfling did, meaning that the maximum possible Hide modifier of rogues from "standard" races drops by a whopping 1 point. I don't see that as being a big deal.
Thoughts?
The halfling's most "essential" ability seems to come from their small size (+4 to Hide checks) and their +2 Dex (another +1), which allows Halfling rogues to have Hide modifiers 5 points higher than most other races. Some might initially balk at this, but the gnome carries the same +4 bonus as the halfling did, meaning that the maximum possible Hide modifier of rogues from "standard" races drops by a whopping 1 point. I don't see that as being a big deal.
Thoughts?
I love my Forgotten Realms, and I definately wouldn't do this there, as there have been many interesting and fun halfling characters in the setting, but with that disclaimer out of the way, were I to make a setting from scratch, I think I could definately deal with your idea.
Gnomes always seem to get overshadowed, because they are a little bit of everything. They some of the long lived and magical traits of elves, and they have crafting traits of dwarves. This is in addition to the "tinker" qualities that have been tacked onto the race from DL influences. There is a lot in the culture that COULD be used to make them stand out, but for some reason, gnomes and halflings always kind of get lumped together and ignore, and if they aren't wholly ignored, halflings get the better end of the deal.
In the Forgotten Realms, the elves in Myth Drannor used to tease gnomes that they were the offspring of dwarves and elves because they have traits of both. You might make this more of a fact and less of a joke, although this pairing could have happened long ago, in days long past, so that no one is REALLY sure if this is the truth or not.
Considering that gnomes now have the favored class of bard, and the fact that they have various racial traits associated with other major races, you might consider the niche that gnomes fall into in the campaign is that of natural diplomats. Gnomes understand other cultures, and are naturally talented at bardcraft, so they may be the "buffer" that gets human, elven, and dwarven nations working together.
I think I want to move somewhat away from that tinker image, too. I want gnomes to be a more "respectable" race, and that is even more important if halflings are out of the way. More people will be looking to gnomes to fill their role. I just don't think they hold up and can be taken seriously in their current depiction.
I deffinately want to play up their connection with magic, but also keep that association with the elves. I also want to emphasize their connection to gems. I'm thinking of focusing on gnomes not being so much illusionists, as much as they are creators. Masters of earth magics, using unique rituals invovling gemstones to work powerful, primal magic, not the artistic, convoluted spells of the elven folk. Closer to arcanist dwarves, really, though I don't want to actually realize that oversimplification. I'll probably need to make a gnome-specific prestige class or something.
This might be a good time to mention my PC in your campaign is *was* going to be a rogue/barbarian.
I've always liked halflings and gnomes. Never thought that either was without a place and like their racial abilities and culture.
Races only lack a place or purpose in a world if you don't make a place for them. Whic if you don't think their is a place for them and they don't fit your idea of your world, thats fine but It's a flavor descrepancy and I wouldn't say it can be based on their usefulness as a race.
The halfling's most "essential" ability seems to come from their small size (+4 to Hide checks) and their +2 Dex (another +1), which allows Halfling rogues to have Hide modifiers 5 points higher than most other races. Some might initially balk at this, but the gnome carries the same +4 bonus as the halfling did, meaning that the maximum possible Hide modifier of rogues from "standard" races drops by a whopping 1 point. I don't see that as being a big deal.Thoughts?
Halflings
+5 to hide +3 on move silently
Small size
Cultural affinity to thrown weapons
+2 dex without con penalty
+1 to all saves +2 against fear
Nomadic lifestyle and penchant for relying on luck, guile, and crazy bravery to overcome challenges.
Thats what I like about halflings
This might be a good time to mention my PC in your campaign is *was* going to be a rogue/barbarian.
I've always liked halflings and gnomes. Never thought that either was without a place and like their racial abilities and culture.
Races only lack a place or purpose in a world if you don't make a place for them. Whic if you don't think their is a place for them and they don't fit your idea of your world, thats fine but It's a flavor descrepancy and I wouldn't say it can be based on their usefulness as a race.
Well, as I noted, this change won't affect the online game, so you're safe!
As I have noted in other threads, and even on http://www.dmtools.org/, I am creating a campaign totally centred around halflings. I have been running D&D campaigns for my homebrew world for the past ten years or so and I have run campaigns based solely on Elves, Orcs and Dwarves. Now is the turn of the Halflings. I have given each of the races a radically different culture from the norm in my homebrew. The Elves are an ancient egyptian/crusading christian blend. The Orcs are Jewish Romans and the Dwarves are very Islamic. My Halflings will be based primarily on medieval Chinese culture, foregoing all links to tolkien and traditional fantasy stereotypes.
Maybe if you could find a real world culture (from any era) that you adapt you could tweak it as necessary for a race in your homebrew.
Also, thanks to Thanis for the great warbeasts he has posted in the Stat bank.
I just remembered that someone here had a comment once about making halflings like gypsies, and I ran with it for an adventure idea (which I have yet to run). Hmm, I'll look into that aspect. I may need to retool or completely scrap Yondalla, but that's not a big deal, I think, since I've yet to encounter a player who actually gave a hoot about her. I'm scrapping Corellon and instituting my own elven deities, anyway!
If you made Dallah Thaun a more prominent deity among the halfling pantheon, and downplayed Yondalla's role, it might work out nicely for a "quick fix" to make gypsies the archetypal halflings. A race whose primary deity (the Lady of Mystery) "moonlights" as a guardian and defender is one that you want to tread cautiously around, but one which could still function well if they lived as nomads.
I'm not familiar with Dallah Thaun- can you post a little more info?
Halflings in my campaign are always crusading for equal rights: they're smaller and weaker than all the other intelligent races (exc. gnomes) and less intelligent than all the other intelligent races (exc. orcs and their ilk). So, the non-adventurers tend to be field hands, servants, or prostitutes. Is it any wonder they make good rogues?
I also have modified them cosmetically, making many of them piebald, etc.
But, halflings can wield battle axes too ... or eat hearts ... or conduct obscure rituals from mouldering tomes of eldritch lore ... or otherwise butcher PCs, NPCs and monsters just as well as anyone else can ... all because of a 3ft difference in hieght and a 10ft drop is base speed... where's the love ... *sniff sniff*
But, halflings can wield battle axes too ... or eat hearts ... or conduct obscure rituals from mouldering tomes of eldritch lore ... or otherwise butcher PCs, NPCs and monsters just as well as anyone else can ... all because of a 3ft difference in hieght and a 10ft drop is base speed... where's the love ... *sniff sniff*
That's IT! I am immediately introducing a tribe of heart-eating halfling cultists. Sweet!
But, halflings can wield battle axes too ... or eat hearts ... or conduct obscure rituals from mouldering tomes of eldritch lore ... or otherwise butcher PCs, NPCs and monsters just as well as anyone else can ... all because of a 3ft difference in hieght and a 10ft drop is base speed... where's the love ... *sniff sniff*That's IT! I am immediately introducing a tribe of heart-eating halfling cultists. Sweet!
You can name the head cultist after yours truly if you like ^_^
I'm not familiar with Dallah Thaun- can you post a little more info?
In Races of the Wild, it discusses how Yondalla made halflings by stealing small portions of the other races(orc's bravery, elves'free spirits and grace,etc.) The other gods became quite upset and forced her to 'exorcise' her wicked. thieving side. Thus Dallah Thaun was born from Yondalla's darkness. CN Goddess of Luck and Trickery.
Slightly of topic but related to this post was when i first ran my group through a DragonLance campaign back in the early 90s. No one wanted to play a Kender, so I provided an NPC Kender (just for comic relief...eventhough in general i don't like to play the extra member of the party). All I can say is I MUST have played them right because the players LOVED the setting, but HATED the Kender...lo and behold, the next 2 times others Dmed in DragonLance, they BOTH mysteriously had the Kender wiped out! LOL
Slightly of topic but related to this post was when i first ran my group through a DragonLance campaign back in the early 90s. No one wanted to play a Kender, so I provided an NPC Kender (just for comic relief...eventhough in general i don't like to play the extra member of the party). All I can say is I MUST have played them right because the players LOVED the setting, but HATED the Kender...lo and behold, the next 2 times others Dmed in DragonLance, they BOTH mysteriously had the Kender wiped out! LOL
I found that Kender worked much better as a DM NPC then as a player. The DM can really play up their comic side while players just tend to get angry at each other if one of them is an obsessive compulsive thief.
I've been running a home made campaign world for about the last 15 years, with new player groups adventuring in later time periods to earlier groups (giving a 'living' history). Right from the beginning it has had no halflings at all, and no PC elves - there's a cold war between elves and everyone else,even half-elves are unpopular (but available as PCs). This has all been about flavour, not stats. Gnomes have worked well as the 'small' race.
Reggie
Lately I have had a thing for playing halfling characters. I am not so sure what attracts me to the race. As for them not having much of a racial history, all you have to do is look in books that cater to the races( such as races of the wild, or the complete book of gnomes and halflings from 2nd ed.). In my personal opinion, gnomes usually do not get played in the games I attend. More from the fact that gnomes have that little trickster streak in them that comes out at inappropriate times. I know the same has been said about halflings, but after seeing a halfling paladin ride through a closed door on his warpony, I will never laugh at these small folk again.
I've never been fond of halflings-- all the non-dwarf short races tend to get overlooked in our group. However, I did just create a Halfling Sorcerer for the Xen'drik RPGA game, so it'll be interesting to see how I feel after a few levels adventuring.
I hear ya. I replaced Halflings in my homebrew with goblins - little jawa-like goblins in hoods and ratty robes who scavenge and live in ghettos and nomadic caravans.
That said I think 3 Ed has greatly improved halflings and made them much more original, but it's a fine line. They are one of those things that you know are only there because they were in 1st ed, but at the same time, would it still be D&D if they were no longer in the PHB at all?
Part of the structure of D&D now is that there are I think many things that would make the setting more consistent and frankly better if they were removed, but they've been there since the beginning and you can't really have D&D without 'em. Part of the fun in a new edition is seeing how they justify the dated 70s fantasy staples beside the latest MMORPG-style spiky haired anime guys. Halflings and Paladins are the two most obvious to me at this moment.
Just my opinion of course. I think everyone knows how I feel about paladins by now...
Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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No halflings. Bummer.
For whatever reason, halfings are my favorite race for bad guys. Maybe it's because they are not supposed to be threatening. In my thieves guild campaign, there was a whole group of nasty halfings that ran a rival gang. Mean little buggers. I do like them a lot better than gnomes.
Do I think it will effect game balance to remove them? Nah. I think the gnome is a better choice for spellcasters due to the Con bonus, and humans are better choices for rogues due to the skill points and feat. I'd almost go so far as to say the game might run better if there weren't any small races whatsoever. It would remove a lot of unnecessary detail (weapon damage based on size, whether armor fits, etc).
I once had a homebrew in which I reimagined each of the core races. Gnomes were gypsies; good at heart but often mistrusted. Halflings were akin to the mafia; they had no communities of their own but lived mostly within human cities. They took care of their own because their small stature forced them into hard positions.
As an aside, my only problem with Small races in purely mechanical; why do they have to have 5 ft. reach?! I know it's for game balance, but it's just not internally consistent within the rules framework; there are other ways to make Small characters cool.
I actually wanted to get elves out of my homebrew. Well the elves that mimic Elrond anyway. I did keep elves, but more in the Elfquest (cynics would say Keebler/North Pole :) vain (read: small). Which means they ended up being pretty close to halflings. I also think the dino-riding halflings of Eberron are done well. And a small creature is the only one who can ride a mount in most dungeons (due to size). (My first 3e was a gnome druid with all the riding feats and a medium sized owl.) So I guess there is an advantage/reason. (and almost everyone wants to play a Belkar if even for just a short while). My alternative might was to keep halflings but treat them as (pre-Tolkein) fey of the woods.
I actually wanted to get elves out of my homebrew. Well the elves that mimic Elrond anyway. I did keep elves, but more in the Elfquest (cynics would say Keebler/North Pole :) vain (read: small).
Yeah I stole the elves from Elfquest too. I like em better than the Tolkienian ones and you only have to shave 6 inches to a foot off their height anyway to make em 4 footers...
That way they can see eye to eye with a dwarf.
It seems most people are looking at halflings and gnomes from a min/max standpoint. Forget the stats and bonuses and play the game.
It seems most people are looking at halflings and gnomes from a min/max standpoint. Forget the stats and bonuses and play the game.
Just to clarify, my objection isn't from a min/max standpoint. All the races have specific roles and lores, and I've made a point to really develop those things even more in my games. Halflings just don't seem to fit. As has already been said, they probably wouldn't be around officially anymore if it wasn't for them being in 1st edition, which took them from Tolkien. I delved into the stats because I didn't want to inadvertantly screw up my games by removing something that might be an essential option, which it's looking like most people don't think they are, so the halflings' fates are still up in the air for me.
But, halflings can wield battle axes too ... or eat hearts ... or conduct obscure rituals from mouldering tomes of eldritch lore ... or otherwise butcher PCs, NPCs and monsters just as well as anyone else can ... all because of a 3ft difference in hieght and a 10ft drop is base speed... where's the love ... *sniff sniff*
Take a look at the Jerren in BoVD. Nasty, vicious halflings that even goblins and orcs are repulsed by.
If I were going to play a small race it would be a halfling or goblin. Backstory can be made to work for any character, with proper thought, and some of the racial abilities of Gnomes (and Dwarves even more so) are a bit too situational for my tastes. My preference is for racial or class abilities (ie. cleric domains being the prime example) that are always available and usable in many situations but possibly lower power, sort of like the wider crit range versus higher multiplier argument. I like the backstory elements of dwarves but the loyalty and proud tradition can also exist among other races as well including the Elves, etc.
It seems most people are looking at halflings and gnomes from a min/max standpoint. Forget the stats and bonuses and play the game.Just to clarify, my objection isn't from a min/max standpoint. All the races have specific roles and lores, and I've made a point to really develop those things even more in my games. Halflings just don't seem to fit. As has already been said, they probably wouldn't be around officially anymore if it wasn't for them being in 1st edition, which took them from Tolkien. I delved into the stats because I didn't want to inadvertantly screw up my games by removing something that might be an essential option, which it's looking like most people don't think they are, so the halflings' fates are still up in the air for me.
What makes the dwaves, elves, and orcs so special? The races section of the PHB just has a paragraph or two on culture and personality. The halflings have just as much backstory as any other race. They only lack a "lands" section because they are nomadic. Their clearly defined role is to be dangerously curious wanderers.
It seems most people are looking at halflings and gnomes from a min/max standpoint. Forget the stats and bonuses and play the game.Just to clarify, my objection isn't from a min/max standpoint. All the races have specific roles and lores, and I've made a point to really develop those things even more in my games. Halflings just don't seem to fit. As has already been said, they probably wouldn't be around officially anymore if it wasn't for them being in 1st edition, which took them from Tolkien. I delved into the stats because I didn't want to inadvertantly screw up my games by removing something that might be an essential option, which it's looking like most people don't think they are, so the halflings' fates are still up in the air for me.
I think the biggest problem with halflings is that half the places they appear they are still semi-Tolkienian--roly-poly little fellows who like a good pipe and a mug of ale and stay close to their farms. Yondalla the lawful good goddess of plenty fits this version of the halfling, but not the nomadic paradigm that 3E has tried (incompletely) to put into effect.
In my homebrew I took my cue from the 3E idea of halflings as nomads, but instead of making them wilderness nomads I've turned them into gypsy-types, symbiotic (or maybe parasitic) with human society. Their fortes are entertainment, scavenging, and thievery--they are beloved by human society for the dramas they stage at temple fairs and the displays of jugglery and gymnastics. At one time halfling jesters were a fashionable addition to a nobleman's retinue. But people also distrust halflings because valuable things tend to disappear when they come around. They travel in small clans, pulling miniature wagons with their ponies. I've invented a totally different set of deities for them that focus on guiding them on their travels, inspiring their performances, and helping them scavenge up enough to survive in a harsh world. A halfling in my world is as likely to be a bard as a rogue.
One of my key campaign NPCs is the son of a jester who received a land grant for saving his lord's life in a battle. The family is trying to integrate into the local gentry, but meets with considerable prejudice. Bannamir is a paladin who aspires one day to serve as a member of the Order of Justiciars, dispatched by the king to right the wrongs they find in his realm--in doing so he hopes to bring justice to his oppressed people.
So, I think if you have an interesting vision of what the race's niche is, they can be an enjoyable part of the game. If not, they become just miniature humans who hide well, move slowly, and don't add much character to the game. If you don't have any players who want to play a halfling, it's easy to get rid of them, I think. On the other hand, if you plan on using your homebrew for a while, it's nice to have a halfling culture, in case someone comes along and wants to play one.
(Saern, if you're interested in seeing my halfling material, I'd be happy to e-mail the files.)
It seems most people are looking at halflings and gnomes from a min/max standpoint. Forget the stats and bonuses and play the game.Just to clarify, my objection isn't from a min/max standpoint. All the races have specific roles and lores, and I've made a point to really develop those things even more in my games. Halflings just don't seem to fit. As has already been said, they probably wouldn't be around officially anymore if it wasn't for them being in 1st edition, which took them from Tolkien. I delved into the stats because I didn't want to inadvertantly screw up my games by removing something that might be an essential option, which it's looking like most people don't think they are, so the halflings' fates are still up in the air for me.
I did not mean you Saern. I noticed your arguments for removing halflings was informed and well thought out. However, I did notice a trend to quote information from the stat blocks in peoples arguments for not including halflings with no thought to the roleplaying applications of the races they are replacing it with.
From another standpoint, if you truly do not like the parralel between the Tolkien halflings and the the ones in the players handbook, change it. In my homebrew, I have the normal nomadic caravans for the halflings, but they hail from a specific homeland that is very militaristic (based on the faith of Arvoreen, the halfling god of war and protection), and does not appreciate the interference of the kingdoms of the bigger races(mostly human) into their affairs. I developed a whole 20-something page racial background for every race(20 or so pages each) in the world. This allowed me to move on to develope a much more beleivable story for how each race came about and what its purpose in the campaign world is. But that is me. I like to write ;)
I love to write and world build, too. The idea of gypsy halflings is really growing on me. It accentuates their landless nomad status while leaving them right there in the mix with humans and other races. I'd really like to play up the mystery card. Everyone loves their skillful performances, but everyone also *knows* that they lie and steal and worship strange gods who give them dark magic. They carry large, curved knives so frequently, they are almost iconic to the race; the weapons are needed, since they spend so much time in the wilds on the fringe of nations and civilization. Some might consider them unscrupulous traders, who are willing to traffic with orcs and goblins and their ilk.
Despite this, within their own culture, halflings actually run the gamut. They love drinking and festing and dancing and music, and live to travel just around the next hill, the next bend in the road, and see what's there. They have a very close bond with their clansmen and other halfling groups, and if they have to do something for the good of the halflings that the other races find offensive... well, that's not their problem.
I also like the thought of them making frequent appearances as villainous characters, somewhat like the gypsy minions Bram Stoker described as serving Dracula.
Ooo, I likes! Feel free to e-mail me, Peruhain. I'd love to read your ideas. You can reach me at williebiel@epowerc.net.
One of my ideas was to have the halfling homeland be a blasted wasteland. Why? They failed to give proper homage to the gifts of Yondalla and she removed the verdant green for as far as the eye can see. Now the halflings wander, seeking to regain favor in Yondalla's eyes and once again earn a homeland of their own.
I am another halfling detractor. For whatever reason, I just don't like them. The only setting that had likeable halflings in my opinion was Dark Sun.
A large part of what made halflings tolerable character concept for me whatsoever was due to the carnivorous " if we can cook it, we can eat it " halflings of Dark Sun. Until then, at least in D&D, the closest my personal gaming experience before then was a halfling thief (1st edition) who founded a thieves' guild built VERY deliberately along the lines of the RL Mafia - or, at least, the movie versions of same. The Don was an intelligent short sword, as was his consiglieri Bugsy. Much fun was had RP'ing the voices of the two swords in question, the thief in question backstabbed giants (boots of striding and springing were awesome) and the tall folk quailed at the sight of a Ride-By with magical light crossbow-wielding halflings ... especially with Bolts of the Hornet's Nest (instead of Darts) being fired ... good times ... good times ...
I, personally, would never get rid of halflings, but if you really want them out of your campaign, I wouldn't see a problem in it...unless you're my DM! (Which you're probably not, since he's not on these boards...)