Okay, so grappling itself isn't THAT confusing, but then they throw in the Improved Grab ability in some monsters and that makes it complicated.
The rhagodessa I'm done with. They fought it twice, and both times I tried to make it grapple according to the rules, and I still don't know if I'm getting it right. And even if they manage to find the nest of 3 of them, I probably won't actually put them there because I don't want to deal with it.
Now I have to deal with the crocodile. I know the AP doesn't actually specify that it uses grapple, but it has Improved Grab, and I would figure that a crocodile would use such a tactic anyway. And, well, maybe I just want another shot at getting this right.
So this is how I think I will use it:
On a successful melee attack the crocodile attempts to grapple. If it wins, it automatically pulls the PC underwater and attempts to pin it. On each successive turn, once the PC is pinned, it deals 1d8+6 dmg with a successful grapple check.
I know that's not exactly to spec with the rules (for example the Improved Grab only works on creatures smaller that it unless otherwise noted). But honestly, the Improved Grab ability seems so vague in its description, plus reading the description of the Rhago's Improved Grab (which incidentally doesn't note it can be used on other medium creatures, although it seems to imply such, since that's its main type of attack and most PCs are medium), it seems like one could make a good argument for a crocodile to be able to do this.
I know it's not a big deal. Perhaps I should just ignore the croc's grappling ability (it's only +6 anyway). Really, I just want to be able to understand grappling enough to make use of it. But could someone please give me some advice about this? Does it seem fair how I plan on using it? I'm a new DM and still struggling to figure many things out.
Thanks so much :)
I'm sure most people ignored or forgot that improved grab only works against creatures smaller than the attacker. How about giving the rhago Improved Grapple. If it hits with the touch attack it gets the bite.
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The rhagodessa can grapple creatures the same size as itself; that's official Dungeon-brand errata.
The monstrous crabs can't. Since they're so little, you can probably avoid the whole grapple scene with them unless you have a wizard or sorcerer who fancies having a combat familiar...
straight from the EIC's PC to yours
So this is how I think I will use it:
On a successful melee attack the crocodile attempts to grapple. If it wins, it automatically pulls the PC underwater and attempts to pin it. On each successive turn, once the PC is pinned, it deals 1d8+6 dmg with a successful grapple check.I know that's not exactly to spec with the rules (for example the Improved Grab only works on creatures smaller that it unless otherwise noted). But honestly, the Improved Grab ability seems so vague in its description, plus reading the description of the Rhago's Improved Grab (which incidentally doesn't note it can be used on other medium creatures, although it seems to imply such, since that's its main type of attack and most PCs are medium), it seems like one could make a good argument for a crocodile to be able to do this.
I know it's not a big deal. Perhaps I should just ignore the croc's grappling ability (it's only +6 anyway). Really, I just want to be able to understand grappling enough to make use of it. But could someone please give me some advice about this? Does it seem fair how I plan on using it? I'm a new DM and still struggling to figure many things out.
Thanks so much :)
Here's what the SRD has to say about moving while in a grapple:
Move
You can move half your speed (bringing all others engaged in the grapple with you) by winning an opposed grapple check. This requires a standard action, and you must beat all the other individual check results to move the grapple.
Note: You get a +4 bonus on your grapple check to move a pinned opponent, but only if no one else is involved in the grapple.
From the SRD Crocodile entry:
If it wins the grapple check, the crocodile establishes a hold on the opponent with its mouth and drags it into deep water, attempting to pin it to the bottom.
So, here's how I'd run the crocodile.
Round 1: It hits with a bite attack. The crocodile can forego the touch attack to establish a grapple, since it has improved grab. It then makes an opposed grapple check with its opponent. If the crocodile wins this, it moves into the opponent's square, as it has established a hold.
Round 2: Assuming the opponent did not escape the grapple during its turn, the crocodile would now attempt to do one of two things: either pin the opponent, or move to the bottom of the water. It makes another opposed grapple check.
If it's attempting to move, and this succeeds, it can move half-speed (15 ft. if swimming, 10 ft. if on land), bringing the grappled opponent with it. If it submerges, the character will need to hold their breath or begin to drown (don't have the page handy for these rules).
If it's attempting to pin, and this succeeds, the opponent is pinned. It is held motionless (but not helpless), its Dex score drops to 0 (-5 penalty) and other melee attacks against it are at +4. Ranged attacks are at -4 vs. a pinned character. On the opponent's turn, it can make an opposed grapple, or escape artist check to break free of the pin (but not the grapple). Also, when attempting to move with a pinned opponent, the crocodile gets a +4 on its grapple check.
Basically, crocodiles are smart (instinctual) enough to drown their prey by pinning them to the bottom of a body of water. They do this in real life. Watch nature videos of crocs hunting gazelles that are watering themselves at the shore.
For more on grappling check out:
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/specialAttacks.htm#grapple
Also, Sean K. Reynolds has a nice breakdown of grappling on his website:
http://www.seankreynolds.com/rpgfiles/misc/grappling.html
I think it was written for 3.0, but as far as I could tell, it matches the 3.5 rules, and goes into a good amount of detail on some of the gray areas of the rules as written.
Grappling is one of the hardest parts of the combat system to really master as a DM, but it's well worth the trouble. It's very effective in certain circumstances, both for players, and for their opponents. Some of my players have nightmares about swarms of kobolds grappling, pinning, and then poking holes in their favorite characters.
To add to the above post, the croc can also choose (instead of moving or pinning) to make a grapple check on its turn to do bite damage to its opponent.
And to add to James Jacobs' post, if I read the SRD correctly, the crabs can still use their constrict ability if they make a successful grapple check--they just don't get a free attempt to grapple anything that's larger than tiny. Given their constrict damage, a viable tactic against halflings and gnomes might be to make a grapple check first round and make another grapple check on succeeding rounds to pinch them. 2d4 lethal damage--might pinch a 1st level halfling rogue's leg off in a round or two!
Okay, so grappling itself isn't THAT confusing...
Yes, it is. You'd think it wasn't playtested :/
Grappling has never been easy. I remember in the old green boxed set, the Companion Set, they brought out wrestling rules which had about 3 steps to it and took your AC into account. It was complicated then and still is 20 years later.
Sean K Reynolds' webpage says that monsters with Improved Grab don't count as grappled. However, the Monster Manual entry for Improved Grab says that they need to take a -20 penalty to grapple checks in order to not be considered grappled. This makes a big difference because if the monster the PCs are fighting is their only opponent, it is almost a disadvantage for it to grapple a PC and lost its Dex bonus to AC and all additional attacks, as all it really gains is the incapacitation of one PC. Anyone know which is correct?
Sean K Reynolds' webpage says that monsters with Improved Grab don't count as grappled. However, the Monster Manual entry for Improved Grab says that they need to take a -20 penalty to grapple checks in order to not be considered grappled. This makes a big difference because if the monster the PCs are fighting is their only opponent, it is almost a disadvantage for it to grapple a PC and lost its Dex bonus to AC and all additional attacks, as all it really gains is the incapacitation of one PC. Anyone know which is correct?
I would imagine that you'd go by the core rule book - as a rule if something contradicts the core rule books - go with the core rule book. You could always send it in for sage advice ;)