
halfling...no...death-ling |

I am so confused right now.
What is all this talk about polymorph being revised. I need help, I didn't see anything wrong with it when i read through it a while ago, but I guess that says something about me as a D&D player.
Could someone please shed some light on this for me, or at least just tell me what is wrong with the rules that are outlined in the PH.
Thanks
The DH

Jonathan Drain |

Essentially, there was nothing wrong with polymorph. They've just given up trying to fix it.
In 2nd edition AD&D it was two spells, polymorph self and polymorph other - one to turn yourself into a fearsome creature, another to turn your enemies into frogs. Monster statistics changed drastically in 3rd edition, so certain monstrous forms were overpowered. Tome and Blood fixed the major abuses with an errata'd version, but it still had gaps - notably, polymorph other was as good as an insta-kill on enemies, and (since third edition removed system shock) a permanent buff to allies.
When 3.5 came out, they renamed the spells to polymorph and baleful polymorph, and completely rewrote them. However, 3.5 was bumped ahead of schedule and rushed, meaning that they did a rushed job of replacing polymorphs which created more problems that it fixed and didn't fix half of the perceived problems it should have.
By now, polymorphing spells were infamous over the internet, with everyone and his dog finding flaws in the spell and demanding fixes. Polymorph hate seemed to explode out of control. A rules-lawyer reading of the rules let you apply free templates again (broken!), and an FAQ entry mistakenly backed it up. In any case, the spell was as powerful as monsters, which weren't written with player balance in mind, and the spell gets more powerful and versatile the more monster books you buy. In short, one good monster form can make the spell broken.
Rather than release yet another errata to create a "perfect" polymorph, the development team utterly gave up on it and split it into multiple spells. This way they can appease the internet masses with a quick-fix while also giving themselves extra content for future books.

Robotech_Master |
Even in the D&D Classic Rules Cyclopedia, polymorph seems oddly out of balance. With fourth-level spells, you can either polymorph self, for a limited time but not getting any of the special abilities of the creature in question--or you can polymorph other, which is permanent and does grant the special abilities.
Even the ninth-level spell "shapechange," which is a polymorph self WITH special abilities, only lasts for one turn per level of the caster.
So you can't turn YOURSELF into a fire-breathing dragon (unless you're super-high-level and even then it won't last very long)--but you can turn your buddy into one forever. How much sense does that make?

pming |

Even in the D&D Classic Rules Cyclopedia, polymorph seems oddly out of balance. With fourth-level spells, you can either polymorph self, for a limited time but not getting any of the special abilities of the creature in question--or you can polymorph other, which is permanent and does grant the special abilities.
Well, in basic D&D, Polymorph Other had a save vs. spell to avoid it, the creatuer polymorphed into couldn't have more than the original targets HD x2 (and, all humans had at most 9HD, do no more than an 18HD monster....and the monsters in basic D&D, lets just say that 18HD isn't "all that much"). The newly polymorphed character also 'became' that monster...in mentality, desires, etc. In effect, they were no longer themselves, ergo, the DM basically takes them over as an actual monster. It was basically a 'end of PC' spell, unless the DM felt the player capable of playing said new form "corectly".
Honestly, I never saw anything wrong with the 3.x Polymorph spells. I think what people were upset over was the fact that anyone could then be turned into something that was as effective as a normal fighter. And, well, one of the cardinal rules of 3.x is that NOTHING is as effective, combat wise, as a fighter. So, giving a druid the ability to become as effective as a fighter is a *BIG no-no*...as the poor widdo fighter would feel all equal and get pouty because the druid can now get the same number of attacks as him. Boo-frickin' hoo.

Peruhain of Brithondy |

I think the bottom line is that polymorph and its variants are quite open-ended. They can lead to some really creative roleplaying and problem-solving, but in the hands of a powergaming, rules-lawyering munchkin can be a DM's nightmare. Ultimately, the DM has to have a good idea of what limits to set on the spells, and that is hard to do except by making post-hoc rulings each time you get completely burned.
I just rolled up a druid character, and following the errata wording for the druid's wild shape (a related problem) was very convoluted, and as I read it, the rules require essentially that you stat up each form you want to change into, since druid's BAB stacks with the strength bonus of the acquired form, and since you get special attacks but not special qualities or any supernatural abilities. This is a major chore compared to opening the MM and just using the stats of the standard creature, and makes playing a druid less attractive.
Rich Burlew has also published an alternative fix on his website. However, he divides the polymorph spell into a number of spells, each providing a narrow range of creature types to change into. I'm not sure this helps much either. Time to revisit and decide what my house rules will be.

DrakeMoonsilver |

I don't know how others will feel about this, but I ran into this problem the other night while running AoW. The Wizard of the group, who out-of-character had been rummaging through the MM to find a good polymorph form to use, decided to turn into an Annis Hag, due to their +10! Natural Armor bonus, 2 claw attacks, each with a free grapple, a rending attack if both claws hit, and the ability to continue to claw/claw/rend, while maintaining the grapple.
After making short out of what was rest of the encounter, I think I decided on the following...
As the DM, I'll hold on to the MM, and make hopeful-polymorphers/wild-shapers make appropriate Knowledge checks to see if they know about a particular creature's abilities, let alone if it even exists! The Wizard's player, however, felt that he would then have to spend too many of his skill points on the appropriate Knowledge skills.
Also, that would pull the game to a standstill, as every form he wants to ask about, I, personally, would have to stop, and decide what he'd know based upon his check.
Anyways, does anyone have any thoughts on how I might be able to balance the power of the spell, without crippling it, and/or slow down playtime? Or just any thoughts in general as to how this course of action sounds?
Thanks in advance everyone!