Hi All,
Is anyone else thinking about using their Gargantuan Black and Colossal Red dragon miniatures in the Age of Worms campaign? I used the Huge Red from Giants of Legend for Hookface and Moltenwing in Shackled City, but it would be great to put one of these monsters on the battlemat.
The biggest drawback seems to be that in the rules as written black dragons are not Gargantuan until they are wyrms (CR 20) and red dragons are not Colossal until they are great wyrms (CR 26). Ilthane is only a Large adult. Dragotha is only a Gargantuan wyrm, and a dracolich to boot. I haven't checked the main dragons in Kings of the Rift, but I bet most of them are a little smaller.
However, I'm certainly willing to play with the rules a bit in order to use these minis. I'm considering making Ilthane a larger dragon using the advancing a monster by size rules rather than just increasing her age. Dragotha would be just +2 CR as a great wyrm, but he might not even need to be upped to use the colossal mini. Dragotha could be using illusion of some sort to appear as a red dragon in spite of his skeletal nature.
What do you think?
Derek
In my campaign, I'll be swapping one of Dragotha's 5th level spells for Enlarge Monster (hombrew, but the level seems right, duplicates Enlarge Person, but no type restrictions). Dragotha really doesn't need the boost to strength, additional reach, size penalty to AC or boost to grapple checks from the spell, but then I get to use the Icons collosal red.
For Ilthane, I just used the Paizo repaint Sorcerer on Black Dragon, and didn't madify the stats at all. She had the same space and reach as a large (the pc's didn't know this since she was on the wing and they are all ground-pounders), but I wanted to use a cool lookin black dragon, even if it wasn't the right size, instead of the Large Shadow or Fang dragons WotC recently released.
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 6
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In my campaign, I'll be swapping one of Dragotha's 5th level spells for Enlarge Monster (hombrew, but the level seems right, duplicates Enlarge Person, but no type restrictions). Dragotha really doesn't need the boost to strength, additional reach, size penalty to AC or boost to grapple checks from the spell, but then I get to use the Icons collosal red.
Have you considered using Righteous Might (Clr5) instead, since red dragons can chose spells on the cleric spell list? Grants DR 9/good, +4 Str, and +2 Con, only drawback is duration rounds instead of minutes.
Russ
I'd be tempted to use the Black Dragon for Ilthane just to put the 'Fear of DM' into the players ;) (If only I had the spare $$$)
Have you considered using Righteous Might (Clr5) instead, since red dragons can chose spells on the cleric spell list? Grants DR 9/good, +4 Str, and +2 Con, only drawback is duration rounds instead of minutes.
Awesome Idea! I highly recommend using the CRD for the Dragotha (I know I will). To my knowledge, there is no larger, scarier, or more imposing miniature created than this one (Cthulu is a close second IMHO), and if you want the fight to seem epic, nothing sells it like a mini ten times the PC size. I recommend increasing the area of Dragotha's lair by about 10-20 feet all around if you use this mini since it takes up so much of the battlemat that it hardly needs to even move (and that's not very exciting).
Good luck! Let me know how it turns out
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I'm considering cheating. I'll use the gargantuan black for Ilthane's size but use huge stats for everything else. Just the thought that this thing really is a Gargantuan black will scare my players to no end.
As for Dragotha, a guy in our group painted up a collector's Dracolich that is of Gargantuan size. I'm not too sure which exact model this is but boy does it look scary! I think ther were only 500 of them produced or something.
As for the Big Red, That may just have to wait until next campaign. :)
Best Regards
Herremann the Wise
Have to admit I'd like to use the Colossal Red as Dragotha but its so huge and not to D&D scale. I was very upset to open up the mini and find out that the first colossal mini for the D&D line doesn't even follow the basic rules of the game!!! Sure it looks cool but I'm annoyed that it doesn't fit on the game board the way a colossal should. I'll probably use it anyways for coolness factor but wish they'd made it a 30 x30 base.
Shade325
Have to admit I'd like to use the Colossal Red as Dragotha but its so huge and not to D&D scale. I was very upset to open up the mini and find out that the first colossal mini for the D&D line doesn't even follow the basic rules of the game!!! Sure it looks cool but I'm annoyed that it doesn't fit on the game board the way a colossal should. I'll probably use it anyways for coolness factor but wish they'd made it a 30 x30 base.
Shade325
It's to scale. Collosal creatures take up space from 30' x 30' or larger.
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 6
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It's to scale. Collosal creatures take up space from 30' x 30' or larger.
It's actually not to scale. If you check out the miniature's manual, it tells you that the base should be considered to be 30x30 for RPG play. Basically, minis could stand one square into the base on each side, so it isn't so bad.
Russ
my party is about 1 session away from facing Ilathane and I'm DEFINATLY using the Icons Black. for as powerful as black dragons are the sizes seem off for me anyways. The Col. Red will be Dragotha as well. I don't care about the size difference.
I'm just hoping they make more huge and bigger dragons before the group hits kings of the rift sometime next year. The two Aspects in War of the Dragon Queen (bahamut and tiamat) were a depressing replacement for actual dragons.
Yes but the aspect of bahamut will make a great Lashonna whent the time comes.
Shade325
Yes but the aspect of bahamut will make a great Lashonna whent the time comes.
Shade325
I was thinking the same thing as well. She'll feel tiny after a Gargantuan Ilthane, but I'm sure she'll make an impression. Now the only concern is a properly frightening Kyuss...