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I am not a Powergamer. My idea of powergaming is a feral, shifter monk, or a Githzerai Ranger. Maybe these ideas are not to shabby, but I know that there are some of you who are veritable fonts of Powergaming goodness, so here goes......
I am thinking of partipating in a Battle-Royale type of contest. Here are some of the guidelines.
15 total character levels
Use any campaign nuetral official wizard's product
No henchmen, but animal companions and such are allowed
100,000 gold spending money
There are a couple more, but these are the big ones.
So give me some ideas. I will be in a dungeon populated by other characters, traps, tricks and wandering monsters. I need staying power as I will have to survive multiple combats.
Can't wait to hear your suggestions.
Tam
Well, it's been a while since I flexed my powergaming muscles in the cause of righteousness... or something... mostly I've been using them to buff up NPCs without drastically increasing their treasure. Here are a couple of the builds I've been kicking around in my head off and on.
The Fighter-Rogue (or Fighter-Swashbuckler) Master of Opportunity is a tried and true killer -- EWP (Spiked Chain), Combat Reflexes, Improved Trip, Deformity (Tall), and Karmic Strike/Robilar's Gambit (depending on your preference) will almost guarantee you as many attacks in one round as you can get from high dex. With a decent strength score, your two-handed weapon will deal out an acceptable amount of damage per hit, and you'll be getting *lots* of them. "You referenced that skit... I get an attack of opportunity!" Pick up Hold the Line, and pity the poor fool who charges you and your 20' reach.
While it's only negotiably, a Sirine Battledancer can be lethal if you can get your attack bonus high enough-- you'd get seven levels of good BAB, so with Weapon Finesse you'd have a fair chance to being competent in melee, would get Dex+Cha*2 to your AC (with respectable racial bonuses to both of those), DR 5/Cold Iron to compensate for your low hitpoints and your unarmed strike damage would be equivalent to that of a seventh level monk, +1d4 points of intelligence damage per hit. Your Charming Song would have a good chance of turning the fighter types to your side, especially if you picked up Combat Charm. The downsides: low hp, and the writers flubbed it up and didn't give them an innate ability to breathe on land, despite the flavor stating that they go onland to amuse themselves with people. (What, they chat for two minutes at a time and then run away?)
In the realm of truly off the walls stuff, if invisibility worries you, be a Wereporpoise. ECL 5 for DR 10/Silver in Hybrid and Animal forms, and Blindsight 120' in all forms.
In a more general sense, (and some of this may be obvious) bear in mind that spellcasters will be somewhat less powerful because you can't just unload your highest levels spells on the first thing you see. If you are one, expect high save bonuses, and pick up a few good no save spells (Ray of Enfeeblement is your friend; also Scorching Ray). Use Illusion to your advantage, and use it deviously -- "move" the bridge ten feet to the right, or stalk an enemy invisibly and occasionally sneak ahead to see if there's a dragon napping that you can cover up with an illusion of an empty room (or a duck). Nystul's Magic Aura, if it's a dungeon with treasure, could lead to some entertaining shenanigans reminiscent of the "Head of Vecna" incident. Also, make sure to have the means to escape your enemies if at all possible -- freedom of movement is an obvious choice for avoiding those pesky grapplers, but expeditious retreat should do it against anything but a monk. Ethereal Jaunt should be able to get you out of pretty much anything.
Consider, if you can get away with it, playing a Harbinger (from an issue of Dragon a while back, in the days of the old class acts) a variant bard who imposes penalties on their enemies. You could pull off most of the aforementioned tricks with illusions, heal yourself, and use Use Magic Device to cover up for your lack of overt destructive power.
RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
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I am thinking of partipating in a Battle-Royale type of contest.
I need to know a bit more about the specifics in order to optimize a killing machine for this. Is it going to be you and a bunch of other people in a pit killing each other and the last one standing wins or is it tournament-style one-on-one combat in a ladder setup? These are very important facts because dealing massive damage to one opponent and fighting MULTIPLE opponents require very different builds. The more input from you we get, the better output we can provide.
For example, if it were a last-man standing competition, I would advocate a wizard for their area effect abilities like delayed blast fireball and horrid wilting but if it were one-on-one, I would say fighter or barbarian all the way.
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It will be a dungeon made of those Dwarven maze tiles I think. All the characters will start at random locations and there will be other creatures and traps involved. Could potentially face multiple opponents at once. Last man standing wins. No attacks dealing greater than 120 points at once allowed.
Tam
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No attacks dealing greater than 120 points at once allowed.
What the hell kind of limitation is this?! I guess that rules out using the Sudden Maximize feat on a disintegrate then doesn't it? What about critical hits? Let me tell you, a barbarian wielding a dire pick or a scythe with x4 criticals can CRANK out some damage when they crit. I had a fighter who used a scythe put out over 200 damage in one swing on a critical hit (there was a lot of Power Attack involved, but still).
If there are other creatures and traps involved, I would look into doing a cleric with the tyranny (or Charm) and travel domains (I can't think of a single god that offers both, but you said it was 'setting neutral'). Tyranny (or Charm) will let you use dominate monster on the baddies and then turn them against the other competitors. Travel prevents you from getting entangled, slowed, paralyzed, etc. Being a cleric means you've got the ability to heal yourself and the find traps spell so at least you know where NOT to step and it also allows you to lead other people on top of them (or just dominate person them and MAKE them walk on it). You might even want to go the wizard/cleric/mystic theurge route. With your arcane spells, you can make sure to have plenty of enchantments since most people will likely choose to play scary fighters with lots of HP. Dominate person will be your friend. Make sure you use your cash on periapts of wisdom, headbands of intellect (if you do arcane as well), and some rods of metamagic to maximize your punch. A maximized delayed blast fireball deals 90 damage to everything in an area. Even if they save for half they're taking 45. Use your dominated monsters to cause problems for everyone and blast away with scorching ray, ice storm, and flame strike and this competition should be cake for you. Also consider getting an item that gives you SR just in case someone else goes the spellcaster route. As a cleric, silence will be your first weapon to employ against them. Most people don't think to take feats like Silent Spell for things like this. Plus, as a cleric, your Fort and Will saves will be high enough to stand up to most of the nasty arcane spells and the ones that call for a Reflex save can likely be negated by a timely use of protection from elements. Your worst nightmare is going to be a monk. If someone makes a monk, use ray of enfeeblement at the beginning and rely on touch spells that don't allow saves to do the rest. Shocking grasp, things like that. Alternately, you could just true strike like crazy with a weapon, but that won't be nearly as effective. Thankfully, the Travel domain should keep you largely safe from grapples, but monks will definately be a threat to this concept.
Hope it helps! Let us know how this thing goes when it happens!
Edit: Just realized, dominate monster is a 9th-level spell. You won't have those. You'll have to make due with animate dead and create undead for your minions. If there's no alignment restriction (and I assume there wouldn't be), go evil and tap into some nastiness from the Book of Vile Darkness.
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From a metagame standpoint, make yourself innocuous. Try to let the others weaken each other first, then kick them when they're down. Try to be the LAST one to wade into battle.
I'd suggest some kind of halfling to maximize this ploy, but that's just me.
And whoever talks the MOST IRRITATING smack, everybody will gun for. So don't gun for him. Let them all take him out, and then you kick them when they're wounded.
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RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
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From a metagame standpoint, make yourself innocuous. Try to let the others weaken each other first, then kick them when they're down. Try to be the LAST one to wade into battle.
I'd suggest some kind of halfling to maximize this ploy, but that's just me.
And whoever talks the MOST IRRITATING smack, everybody will gun for. So don't gun for him. Let them all take him out, and then you kick them when they're wounded.
Oh, absolutely. Following my character idea from above, I would spend most of your time under an invisibility spell while you wait for the proverbial smoke to clear.
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These ideas are awesome guys, keep 'em commin. Maybe a halfling cleric, or arcane caster hiding behind invisibility or a wall of illusion.
Tam
I'd lean away from casters, unless this is going to be long and drawn out. You run out of spells. You want to hit hard and bail out quick.
Plus--low hit points. Badbadbad.|
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These ideas are awesome guys, keep 'em commin. Maybe a halfling cleric, or arcane caster hiding behind invisibility or a wall of illusion.
Tam
I'd lean away from casters, unless this is going to be long and drawn out. You run out of spells. You want to hit hard and bail out quick.
Plus--low hit points. Badbadbad.
The low hit points thing is not so much a problem if you go with my earlier idea of a cleric. A d8 hit die and the ability to wear heavy armor is certainly a competitive character. Something that would benefit us all... how many competitors are there going to be? Running out of spells shouldn't be a big deal unless there's going to be 8 or more people, then you might have an issue.
Also, unless there's a time limit of some sort, get yourself a Mordenkainen's Magnificent Mansion memorized (or have a scroll) so if you do run out of spells, you can disappear into a pocket dimension, sleep, rememorize spells, and come out swinging. Granted, the survivors will have had enough time to do the same, but if the survivors are not casters, it won't help them much.
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Ranger or rogue with ring of invisibility. Is there still improved invisibility in the new edition? I havn't checked yet.
Yes, improved invisibility still exists.
Another thing to note, just because you can't CAST 9th level spells doesn't mean you can't use ITEMS with 9th level spells in them. If you go the arcane caster route, get a scroll of power word: kill to finish someone off. If you stay divine with the cleric idea, get yourself a scroll of implosion if possible. Make sure your Spellcraft skill is high or you'll blow yourself up.
I like the idea of a 1/2 fiend ogre warlock
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I like the idea of a 1/2 fiend ogre warlock
Your eldritch blasts lack the range and hitting power of a full caster, your hit die is not all that impressive, and your invocations are very limited. Pretty much any melee class will tear you to shreds, damage reduction or not, and you can do absolutely nothing about the traps.
Warlocks really do not make good standalone characters in my opinion. They're certainly unique and have a distinct flavor, but if we're talking knock-down, drag-out beatdown deathmatches, warlocks are probably not the way to go.
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I like a high number of attacks - how about a Fighter/Dervish? Dervishes treat scimitars as light weapons, so get two keen ones... At level 15, you'll have at least six attacks per round, and probably at least two critical hits.
Also, Dervishes should have high Dex, so you'll stand a chance against traps and such - especially if you have a Rogue level or three (which will of course include level 1...).
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I just had another really sick idea...
A fighter with some sort of undead template (gives immunity to crits and sneak attack), a big two-handed weapon with improved weapon focus and specialization, and enough armor to make himself tough to hit. Take some archery feats, carry a bow (to deal with ranged threats), and have only one magical item (and a rogue level to use it with): a wand of antimagic field. Stand in one spot. You will be immune to all magical effects due to the field. As a fighter, you will have lots of feats and the ability to dish out massive damage in melee. Most people will depend on their +4 vorpal greatsword to do the dirty work. Inside the field, it will be a normal masterwork weapon. Get yourself an adamantine weapon and Improved Sunder. Adamantine is a non-magical bonus, meaning it'll function normally in the field. Sunder things like crazy. Deprive the melee people of their weapons. Rangers and the like will pick at you with their bows. Return fire. You're immune to crits and have a d12 hit die (undead, remember?), thus you will probably outlast them and, with a composite bow and a high Strength mod (you're a FIGHTER, remember?) you should probably be out-damaging them too. Turning will not work either, since that ability cannot function inside an antimagic field. Take Improved Critical with your weapon and carry a spare (just in case). Improved Critical will function in the field. A keen weapon will not. Load up on the heaviest, cheesiest mundane armor you can find (adamantine full plate gives DR 3/-). That wand is all you really need. Make sure you take abilities to get your Use Magic Device up to the level you need to use the wand reliably. Spend as many skill points as possible in it and consider getting Skill Focus in it too. Most of your ranks will be cross-class ranks, but that should be enough. In the end, assuming an undead template with LA 2 or 3, you should end up as a ftr 12/rog 1 with 2 LA or just eliminate the rogue level entirely and go full-out cross-class on Use Magic Device if you take a +3 LA template. Level 12 Fighter is needed for Improved Weapon Specialization and that will matter. Make sure you get plenty of adamantine-tipped arrows too. Might as well make them +5 arrows since they'll be getting fired OUT OF the field at people. Besides, with nearly everything else being mundane, what else are you going to do with all that cash? ;)
Edit: Make it an undead dwarf. Just in case someone gets clever and tries to bull rush you out of the field, that racial +4 will help.
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I have absolutely loved your suggestions until now Fate but this last one is absolutely brilliant. I am already looking forward to creating this character. What do you think the best Undead template would be? Maybe a maul or hammer to fit the dwarven theme.
Tam
I would actually go with a falchion. You want to make the most of that Improved Critical feat. Sure, you're only doing 2d4 base damage, but the base damage doesn't matter as much as the strength mod, power attack, and weapon specialization bonuses do. When you're criting, you're doubling all that. Either that, or a scythe. Make those crits HURT when they happen. Normally, I'm an advocate of roleplaying concepts and yes, the hammer or maul would be good for flavor. If we're talking about a slaughterhouse cheese-fest, though, concept goes out the window, imo.
Weapon Math:
Assuming you use 5 points of Power Attack with these weapons and have an 18 Strength (will probably be higher, but bear with me), these are the figures for rolling MAX damage:
Falchion - 2d4(8) + 6 (1.5xstr) + 4 (imp. weap. spec.) + 10 (power attack x2) = 28 (56 if crit)
Maul - 1d10(10) + 6 + 4 + 10 = 30 (60 if crit or 90 if its x3 and my memory is bad)
Scythe - 2d4(8) + 6 + 4 + 10 = 28 (112 if crit)
Falchion imp. crit. chance = 15-20 (30% chance)
Maul - 19-20 (10% crit)
Scythe - 19-20 (10% crit)
So, with the falchion, you do 56 dmg on a crit, but you're doing it 3 times as often as you are with the scythe. The maul... is just not worth it. Consider taking Power Critical from the Complete Warrior to make sure you're making these threats matter.
As far as the templates, I'm not really sure what all your options are as I'm not sitting at home with all my books in front of me. Check out some of the options in the Book of Vile Darkness. I know there's a few decent low-LA undead templates in the back of it somewhere.
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I just realized something... I'm not sure if you can put antimagic field in a wand because it is a 6th level spell. If not, you'll need some other item to replicate the ability. Perhaps scrolls or a wonderous item of some sort would suffice. Again, I don't have my books in front of me but as long as it is something that can be used with Use Magic Device and has multiple uses, you should be golden. The reason for multiple uses is, inevitably, something will require you to move. Do so as little as possible, however, because you have no defense against traps (unless you manage to get that 1 rogue level I mentioned earlier with a 2 LA template).
Wild suggestions thus far. This arena set-up reminds me of that movie Mean Guns with Christopher Lambert and Ice-T.
...if anyone actually stats these builds out, put 'em on the Stat Block Bank!
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...if anyone actually stats these builds out, put 'em on the Stat Block Bank!
Woe to anyone who would ever have to FACE my antimagic field-using undead dwarf war machine.... it's just not fair.
Does an anti-magic field affect psionics? If not, then you would fall prey to my Psion (Telekinetic), Fatespinner. A Soulknife would be fun to play in this one, but I think the lack of feats would hurt in the long run. A Mantis Warrior Ranger would be dangerous too!
Tambryn, would we be using a point buy system? If so, then what would be the point spread? If not, what stat system would we use?
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Does an anti-magic field affect psionics? If not, then you would fall prey to my Psion (Telekinetic), Fatespinner.
Depends on how the GM runs it. In the Expanded Psionics Handbook, it lists two different ways of managing psionics. There's the 'psionics as magic' option and the 'psionics differ from magic' option.
In the former (which is what I use), spells like detect magic and antimagic field work normally on psionics as well as true magic. In the latter, dispel magic would only work on MAGIC and dispel psionics would only work on psionics. I use the former system because, to me, all 'supernatural' abilities that violate the laws of physics whether they call it 'magic' or 'psionics' are the same thing in essence. Plus, it simplifies things a lot and makes it so that the party wizard does not have to prepare a detect magic AND a detect psionics JUST IN CASE. Way too tedious, imo. I treat them as one and the same, but other DMs certainly differ. This would be a crucial flaw in my concept if the DM decided to do them as separate entities independant of one another. Either everyone will gear up to be anti-magic and the psions will rule the table or everyone will plan on psionics and the sorcerer will dominate. That's why I hate doing them differently, but to each his own.
As a side note, I really hate psionics in general and typically don't allow them in my games except in extremely narrow circumstances, but that's a topic for a different post entirely. Let's just cheer Tam on and hope this pans out for him!
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32 point buy, and I think that BoVD is 3.0, and only 3.5 material is allowed. Checking for undead templates now.
Just remember, since you're using point buy, don't put ANYTHING into Constitution because its all gonna disappear once you slap that 'undead' sticker on there. ;)
More points for Strength!
Fatespinner, I can understand why you dislike psionics, but for me it is just plain fun. I was at one time leaning towards psionics is different, but lately, I am leaning more towards psionis is similar. Also, if the undead template us used by one person, then I would think that everyone would have to take it just to survive.
P.S. - Yes! A psion would RULE if the psionics is different rule is used!
~wistles~ Damn! A vampire Dwarf?!? I thought the LA was +6 or something like that.
Edit - Yep, A LA of +8 is a little too much for what you are needing.
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Vampire Dwarf
Energy Drain
Dominate
Fast Healing
Damage Reduction
+6 Str +4 Dex
+6 armor, but the LA is 8
Not worth it, imo. Your dominate ability is a spell-like ability and will not work in the antimagic field. I believe the energy drain suffers from the same restriction. The stat bonuses are certainly nice, but not worth the loss of 8 HD in my opinion. With LA 8, your character will only be level 7, giving you a serious disadvantage in things like BAB and feats. Consider something more conservative. As I stated, LA 3 at the most. I know they're out there. All you really need is the undead template to give you the d12 hit dice and the immunity to crits and sneak attack. Anything else is overkill.
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But I have yet to find a way to get Antimagic in a portable magic item.
Like I said, if nothing else, get scrolls. Surely he's not going to forbid the use of scrolls in this thing! One-shot disposable magic items are going to be the mainstay in this event. You get the most use out of the least amount of gold if you buy a disposable item. If you end up with extra cash after all your adamantine gear, buy some potions of inflict serious wounds to heal yourself after a tough fight. You'll have to step outside the field to do this, so make sure the coast is clear before you do.
Tam, the pixie is located in the Monster Manual I.
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100,000 gold no single item worth more than 57,000
Antimagic Field Scroll = 1,650
Plenty of Scrolls
Two things:
The field moves with you so this is going to rock.
The first PC to get a kill is going to gain a serious upper hand, maybe doubling in power with regards to magic items. But I don't think this will matter to me.
Tam
Actually, if you're going Ghost, shoot for Master of the Unseen hand -- Complete Warrior, I think. It's a 5 Level Prestige Class which is all about the Telekinesis. Play a Grey Elf (Incorporeal Undead = No Strength or Constitution scores) and you've still got 10 Class Levels to play with. Warmage capitalizes on the Grey Elf's Intelligence Bonus *and* the Ghost's Charisma Bonus nicely, and with Ghostly Grasp (Libris Mortis) you can manipulate objects manually if you really need to. Warlock might actually be well suited to the ghost as well, as the Good BAB on Master of the Unseen Hand would give you an edge in hitting things with your eldritch blast, and when you're possessing one enemy, it doesn't really matter if it takes you a few extra rounds to blow up the other guy. Don't forget that the Ghost's Telekinesis is Supernatural, and thus unaffected by Spell Resistance. The ghost also can't be disarmed or sundered, ,though if the DM puts your body in the dungeon, you can get really screwed over. But yes, Malevolence and Telekinesis are your friends.
Ok, I thought on it a bit, trying to figure out a good charisma based class for a Ghost-Master of the Unseen Hand, and the best option I'm finding is the Marshal. Motivate Dexterity would allow you to add your charisma to initiative, almost guaranteeing that you get to go first against most of your opponents, and then Art of War would let you add your charisma to Disarm, Trip, Bull Rush, and Sunder attempts.
With an 18 starting Charisma (not unreasonable when you only have four ability scores to consider and 32 points to spend), you're looking at a final score of 30 (+2 from levelups, +4 from Ghost, +6 from a cloak), for a +10 Modifier. That's +20 to Trip when using Telekinesis. Pick up Combat Expertise and Improved Trip, and with the Master of the Unseen Hand giving you a Caster Level of 17 for Telekinesis (and thus four "attacks") you can Trip and Disarm somebody in one attack (+24 and +37, respectively,) and then start beating them to death with their weapon with a minimum of +18 to hit with your secondary attack -- assuming that you're nonproficient and wielding a mundane weapon, and not calculating in the -4 penalty to their AC for being prone. For your third minor aura you could pick up either Watchful Eye or Force of Will, depending on whether you were more concerned with Reflex or Will saves.
And, of course, you can do all of this while incorporeal or while possessing one of your enemies. Builds like this are only part of the reason that I laugh at people who scorn high charisma characters.
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That is golden Toy Maker, and there are two total competitions, one pre-con and the other at con, so I can work both these builds and trick them up.
Is there a feat that allows a x-class skill to become classed. I thought I saw this somewhere, but cannot remember.
Tam
The only one I know of is the Cosmopolitan feat, but that is from the Forgotten Realms campaign setting and you stated that only setting-neutral books are usable in this competition.
As for your thing about Will saves, you're absolutely right. Undead are immune to charm, sleep, fear, and just about anything else that messes with their head. However, inside the antimagic field, it won't really matter since you'll be immune to ALL magic.
Make sure you've got enough cash to deck yourself out in adamantine. Adamantine weapon (with backup, just in case), adamantine armor, adamantine arrows (these can and should be magical), the biggest Strength-mod composite bow you can handle, and lots of scrolls of antimagic field.
Power Attack, Improved Sunder, Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization, and the 'improved' versions of the last two are CRUCIAL to this build. Point Blank Shot and Far Shot are highly recommended as well just in case someone plays the range game with you. As for Use Magic Device, take Skill Focus in it to help yourself out if you can't find a way to get it in-class. Really, none of your other skills are going to matter much so I would just put as many points in Use Magic Device as possible and spend the leftovers (if any) in the other skills. Fighters are not exactly skill-heavy to start with and things like Jump and Climb are going to be seriously hampered by the full plate anyway.
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Ok, I thought on it a bit, trying to figure out a good charisma based class for a Ghost-Master of the Unseen Hand, and the best option I'm finding is the Marshal. Motivate Dexterity would allow you to add your charisma to initiative, almost guaranteeing that you get to go first against most of your opponents, and then Art of War would let you add your charisma to Disarm, Trip, Bull Rush, and Sunder attempts.
With an 18 starting Charisma (not unreasonable when you only have four ability scores to consider and 32 points to spend), you're looking at a final score of 30 (+2 from levelups, +4 from Ghost, +6 from a cloak), for a +10 Modifier. That's +20 to Trip when using Telekinesis. Pick up Combat Expertise and Improved Trip, and with the Master of the Unseen Hand giving you a Caster Level of 17 for Telekinesis (and thus four "attacks") you can Trip and Disarm somebody in one attack (+24 and +37, respectively,) and then start beating them to death with their weapon with a minimum of +18 to hit with your secondary attack -- assuming that you're nonproficient and wielding a mundane weapon, and not calculating in the -4 penalty to their AC for being prone. For your third minor aura you could pick up either Watchful Eye or Force of Will, depending on whether you were more concerned with Reflex or Will saves.
And, of course, you can do all of this while incorporeal or while possessing one of your enemies. Builds like this are only part of the reason that I laugh at people who scorn high charisma characters.
One cleric would seriously ruin your fun, though. I'm sure a ghost is an LA of at least 3 if not more so even with Turn Resistance +5 you're only 2 levels higher than the cleric is (assuming all equal). You get turned when he rolls even moderately well, he blasts away with his searing light, heal, and any other number of undead-smiting spells you can think of and its game over for you since you can't touch the cleric's high Will save with your crazy tricks.
If you're possessing someone, Turn Undead will kick you out too. Even worse, if its an evil cleric, he rebukes or commands instead and then you spend the rest of the game as his de facto minion.
Are options from Dragon and Dungeon magazine allowed? Because that's where I find a lot of my "power gaming" stuff from.