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Has anyone come up with some alternate ways for players to identify magic items? The identify spell seems A) very expensive in the long run and B) very limiting -- it seems odd to me that only wizards (realistically) can identify magic items (Yes Bards and Sorcerers can if they want to waste a spell slot).
Any suggestions on alternate ways of identifying magic items?
There is an article here that deals with some alternate methods of identifying magic items you may find useful.
I thought of using the spellcraft check in my campaign, but the trick is doing it in such a way that it didn't step on the Artificer's toes (they get pretty much that exact ability - to ID items with a spellcraft check).
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I only allow Wizards to Identify in my campaigns. I love it when the player-characters take risks when in dire situations. ...having flashback to 1st edition...
Who ever said they should know anyhow?
Nothing is more exiting that telling your DM, "okay-i drink it; am i healed? Uh-oh, what just happened?"
Believe me when i tell you, that when a character is lost in a dungeon, being followed by who-knows-what, and low on hit points, that mysterious magical potion he pilfered starts to look mighty tasty. Desperation, to me, always adds a bit of ambiance to the game.
Two examples from past gaming experiences:
1...broke sword and grapped one found a couple of rooms back. Turns out the sword was a +3 Cursed. After killing the enemy, the sword turned on the party and the wielder wasnt able to release it. This unfortunate scenario is still talked about today. LOL
2...a desperate theif in the party got caught stealing from another party member(barbarian CN). The thief, realizing he wasnt going to escape, then took a risk and drank the potion hoping it would allow him to escape but it turned out to be an oil of slipperyness, or something to that effect. This gave him the runs big-time(soiled his breeches for the rest of the day). Out of pity, the barbarian felt he got his due punishment. We had quite a laugh.
Sorry for getting off topic.
Thoth-Amon
Check the new rules under the appraise skill in the Complete Adventurer, I belive with that combined with the feat Appraise magical value from that book, you should be able to identify some properties of the item. A bard can also use his bardic knowledge to identify items.
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I normally allow my players to roll spell craft to identify magical items, which allows clerics to identify divine items and wizards to identify arcane while both can identify more general use things. I only allow one attempt per level however, and I set the DC's fairly steep based on both the item type and the relative power of the item. I actually have altered the identify spell to suit this method, because I want items to have a hint of mystery to them sometimes, so instead of identify being a sure thing I allow my players to re-examine a previously failed item when they cast the spell and give them a +10 bonus on the check.
This lets the players find what simple items are based on just a few minutes of examination in a dungeon, but it also still leaves them needing to spend the time and the money to do occasional identifies. It also results in the occasional horrible roll where players just aren't sure what something does. I know I have had a player put on a ring and start jumping up and down and the like to see if it did anything.
I normally allow my players to roll spell craft to identify magical items, which allows clerics to identify divine items and wizards to identify arcane while both can identify more general use things. I only allow one attempt per level however, and I set the DC's fairly steep based on both the item type and the relative power of the item. I actually have altered the identify spell to suit this method, because I want items to have a hint of mystery to them sometimes, so instead of identify being a sure thing I allow my players to re-examine a previously failed item when they cast the spell and give them a +10 bonus on the check.
This lets the players find what simple items are based on just a few minutes of examination in a dungeon, but it also still leaves them needing to spend the time and the money to do occasional identifies. It also results in the occasional horrible roll where players just aren't sure what something does. I know I have had a player put on a ring and start jumping up and down and the like to see if it did anything.
I have done something similar for a while as well. I allow a Spellcraft check in conjunction with a detect magic spell at a difficulty of 20 plus caster level of the item. I also allow a knowledge arcana check at 25 plus the CL of the item. I also allow only one check of each kind until more ranks are put into the skill in question.
I find that with the time and money that it takes from the party to cast identify, they were frequently leaving dungeons in order to identify items, and it killed the pace of the game.
I also allow them to know the enhancement bonus of weapons and armor without a check. The caveat in that case is that they will not know if the item is cursed unless they use spellcraft or knowledge arcane.
If its a basic +1 magic item or potion, the spells and skills work fine. If its a weapon with more than one effect I give the item a name. The PCs must do research on the item to figure out the name and what it is.
I just make them cast Identify and then tell them everything about the item. They have also been known to use Alchemy or some such for potions.
Mainly my goal is to keep the IDing of magic items from slowing down the game. Another reason for fast tracking is that I always got annoyed in video games if they did not let me ID magic items. In the end most of the time I'd rather just know or be able to find out fairly easily then have to think to much about the secrets of the magic item.
There needs to be secrets in a D&D campaign (in fact I think I could argue with some conviction that a good campaign is all about its secrets) but there are better ones then 'what is the potion?' and its these ones that should be concentrated on.
I use spellcraft and the table in the 3.5 DMs screen I got from dragon mag or was it dragon. The table kinda of reveals a bit of the type of magic (abjuration, conjuration etc.) with that and other clues size shape who had it, the players can sometimes but not always figure it out. As mentioned before in this string, it is exciting to hear "Okay I drink the potion, what happens?". But, I have know problem with the use of identify spell, but remember it requires a 100gp pearl. Identify spell does take away from the mystery and the fun of discovery through the examining of a magic item, but that is a part of the game and I will reward in kind for players thinking about caring pearls for just such an occasion.
I agree with Jeremy Mac Donald-- while secrets are good, and the "will it blow" is suspenseful every once in a while, the practical effects of difficult identification are bad.
Either the PCs use the item and the GM has to mentally adjust every attack roll for the item until they finally get it IDed, or they never use items til they get out of the dungeon. That takes a lot of the joy of treasure away from the discovery and displaces it to the tired, end of session loot divvying.
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Thank you all for your responses and ideas.
For what it’s worth, here are my thoughts and what I will probably plan on doing.
I never liked that a 20th level cleric was at the mercy of at least a 1st level wizard to identify their amulet of natural armor +1. I really feel that there needs to be something in place for other classes especially, but also I feel that at some point, wizards should be able to just pick up an item and say “Leather armor +1 with lesser fire resistance” or something similar without spending 100 gp to do it.
I thought that the wizards article mentioned above had some really good points, but I disagreed with some of it.
This is what I will probably start doing in our campaign – Let me know what you think and if you see any problems with it.
Potions: I will most likely be giving out potions of spells at levels higher than 3rd level. For that reason, I didn’t feel that a fixed DC of 25 was sufficient for all potions. I will do a Spellcraft DC of 20 plus the spell level of the potion. If they have already identified a potion of the same kind using the method from a different adventure I will reduce the DC by 5. (I didn’t feel like there is that much variation between different cure light wounds potions.) I will allow a Craft: Alchemy to be used in this case instead of Spellcraft if better.
All magic items besides scrolls and potions: The person will need to take 1 hour for each item and the Spellcraft DC for each item will be 25 plus the caster level of the item. If a person has the appropriate craft feat, they may add a +2 competence bonus to the roll. Up to one additional person may assist in the attempt. If anyone in the group fails, it cannot ever be attempted again by that group in the same way – they will need to find a different way to identify the item – either by spell or some other sage type person. It didn’t feel right that the identify spell took an hour to cast but someone could just pick up a sword and after a minute of looking at it knew what it was. I will allow the Appraise skill to be used instead of Spellcraft in the case of Bards, Rogues and Artificers.
The Identify Spell: I will change the spell to the following – One casting of Identify can identify a number of items equal to the caster’s level. Casting time will be 10 minutes + 5 minutes for each item more than the first item. The material cost will be gemstones (I never limited it to pearls) equal to 100 gp plus 50 gp for each item after the first item.
Cursed Items: I feel that if I will be allowing the PCs to identify items without a spell, then there should be a potential negative effect. The Identify spell will automatically identify a cursed item. The Spellcraft DC will be +10 to identify the curse without a spell to do so.
The way I see it, I can include cursed items without too much difficulty. The PCs can identify more items quickly with spells at a reduced cost or they can attempt to identify the item(s) for free for a longer period of time.
Let me know if you see any flaws in my logic and thanks again for your ideas and comments.
Bill
Not to mention the negative health effects of drinking countless elixirs of powdered pearl. Kidney stones must be a major issue for older diviners.
I use spellcraft and the table in the 3.5 DMs screen I got from dragon mag or was it dragon. The table kinda of reveals a bit of the type of magic (abjuration, conjuration etc.) with that and other clues size shape who had it, the players can sometimes but not always figure it out.
Yeah, another Spellcraft user here, particularly for relatively simple magic items or common potions. My players in particular tend to never use their potions/scrolls/whatever, so if they can't identify something right away, it goes into the bag of holding and gets forgotten. Then months later, they get back to town and spend the money to have something identified, and I no longer have my notes on what it was 'cause it was three dungeons ago.
If something is cursed or an interesting "plot item," on the other hand, I make it more difficult for them to figure it out. When the fighter was dominated by the evil, intelligent greatclub, the party had a heck of a time dealing with the problem!
-The Gneech
Potions: I will most likely be giving out potions of spells at levels higher than 3rd level. For that reason, I didn’t feel that a fixed DC of 25 was sufficient for all potions. I will do a Spellcraft DC of 20 plus the spell level of the potion. If they have already identified a potion of the same kind using the method from a different adventure I will reduce the DC by 5. (I didn’t feel like there is that much variation between different cure light wounds potions.) I will allow a Craft: Alchemy to be used in this case instead of Spellcraft if better.
Your going to keep track of every potion they have IDed at one point or another?
What if the Wizard that made the succsessful ID has died and another has replaced him? Do you then erase your old notes? What do you do if there are two wizards in the party? Keep track of seperate lists for each wizard to see who does and does not get a bonus to their DC to ID a given potion?
Down this road lies madness.
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Your going to keep track of every potion they have IDed at one point or another?
What if the Wizard that made the succsessful ID has died and another has replaced him? Do you then erase your old notes? What do you do if there are two wizards in the party? Keep track of seperate lists for each wizard to see who does and does not get a bonus to their DC to ID a given potion?
Down this road lies madness.
Great points -- thanks for the comments.
One way I got around the problem is to assume that many items are self-identifying, or are otherwise readily identifiable by anyone with rudimentary training. In game terms, this means I allow Knowledge (arcana) to identify relatively common magic items. I would also allow, say, the fighter to be an excellent judge of how good a magical weapon is.
Most of the mundane magic items in my campaign are labelled by the person who created it. I can't see someone creating a bunch of potions and not labelling them to figure out what they are. Therefore, if the wizard used some personal code to secretly label the magic item, a "decipher script" roll might identify what the label says.
I house rule that if you have 5 ranks in Knowledge-Arcana or Use Magic Device (wands, rings, amulets etc only), you can use Appraise to identify some lower power magic items by making a DC10 + level of caster who created the item Appraise check.
RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
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I would also allow, say, the fighter to be an excellent judge of how good a magical weapon is.
I can't help but think of the Dead Alewives skit now:
"I go outside and swing the sword around!"
"...why?"
"To see if its MAGICAL!"
"Wha...?! You can't tell if a sword is magical just by... swinging it around!"
"Wha...?! You can't tell if a sword is magical just by... swinging it around!"
You can in my game. You just have to make a successful Craft (Weaponsmith) check. Keeps the skill useful in the dungeon, y'know? Say, DC20 to tell a masterwork from a normal weapon without using it for a while, and add double the enhancement bonus to the DC.