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I wasn't really sure where to put this thread, but anyways here it is....
Does anyone else here think that "CR" is designed really poorly?
I recently ran part 2 of the "Istivin City of Shadows" arc (Spoiler ahead), and my party had a very hard time with a certain Hill Giant Cleric Level 12.
Now the challenge rating he was given is 13. *scratching head*
The Illithid Sorcerer in the Monster Manual had a CR of 17 (old CR + Sorcerer levels)
So shouldn't the Giant's be 19?
The Eldritch Giant from MM 3has a base CR of 15, but the 11th lv cleric has a CR of 19.
How do the developers justify one and not the other?
Any monster with levels in a spellcasting class is assigned a lower CR than simple math would warrant. The reason is that the added challenge of spellcasting abilities doesn't compliment a monster's base challenge the way that a fighting class does. I.E. less spells and lower save DCs. I'm not sure how WotC does it but I believe they halve the caster levels and then add that number to the monster's CR. Personally, I would think it's easier to give a spellcasting monster a racial bonus against the spells it casts (comensurate with its new CR) and then add all of its caster levels to CR.
I know Tequila Sunrise has posted a response, but it's not showing up. So this may be repetitive...
The cleric's CR is lower because when a monster adds non-associated class levels they 1/2 per level to the CR, up to the monsters HD. That means a fighter type creature adding 2 spellcaster levels only adds 1 to its CR. Since the Hill Giant is better suited to wailing on people than curing them the cleric levels count as 1/2. This is because a creature like the Hill Giant is primarily there to do damage. Any time it uses a cleric spell, it isn't do what it's best at. Thus it isn't as tough a fight as a Hill Giant with the same number of fighter levels.
This rule can be found on page 294 of the Monster Manual.
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Any monster with levels in a spellcasting class is assigned a lower CR than simple math would warrant. The reason is that the added challenge of spellcasting abilities doesn't compliment a monster's base challenge the way that a fighting class does.
This is true for brutes, like the giant in the example, but when the creature is primarily reliant on its spell-like abilities, I am sure its effective caster/manifester level is increased accordingly.
I don't have the book to hand, but I seem to remember the Psionic variant Mind Flayer was much more dangerous than the wizard/sorceror variant from the MM, since its Psion abilities stacked and enhanced its exisiting Psionic powers, rather than starting again from scratch.
I.e. a level 5 Mind Flayer Psion was manifester level 14, with 7th level powers, while a level 5 Mind Flayer Wizard had caster level 5 (arcane) and manifester level 9 (psionic), using 3rd level spells and 5th level psionic powers, which makes a huge difference.
I know which one I'd rather face!