Dragon magazine really needs to stop accidentally naming their feats the same thing as existing [url=http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#improvedWhirlwindAttack]epic feats[/i] ;)
I would say yes; the character has spent the feats to gain the benefit. Who says Fighters aren't good past level 4?
I would vote no on the off-hand attacks.
The version of IWW from the epic SRD (presuabably a 3.5 version) doesn't make the slightest bit of sense when read, and actually comes off as sounding like a worse option then useing a normal WW, not to mention there is contradictory information in the feats wording in places, and it is confusing to read to say the least. (this is not an excuse for same name syndrom, more of an explanation, although personaly I would have named it something else to aviod confusion, but in all honesty IWW, while cool was not one of the feats that I submitted, and I can only suppose that it was added by an editor).
I just thought as you guys were discussing improved whirlwind attack, i would bring up my question. I am still thoroughly confused by the prerequsiites for Whirlwind attack. So whirlwind attack is a feat that lets you get 1 huge sweeping attack against several enemies surrounding you, by sacrificing a full move for the round. Yet the person who (by the prerequisites dodge, mobility spring attack) is best trained to do this is someone whose feats make him good at dodging through enemy squares and making a single springing attack at an enemy. While the fighter ( with power attack cleave and great cleave) who is great at putting all his might into one big swing and then hitting multiple targets with that swing as it fells his first target, isns't trained at all in standing still and hitting multiple targets with this whirlwind attack.
I just never understood why the movement tree oif feats was a prereq for the not moving and making one big swing feat? can anyone explain this to me?
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Often the rules don't necessarily adequately describe the action that is taking place.
I find it unlikely that your enemies will simply stand in place while you make a single sweeping circle and catch each of them.
Rather, you're more likely jumping through your enemies and slashing them all in a frenzy of violence before returning to your original spot and watching them fall dead.
Sort of like Lancelot in Monty Python's Holy Grail. Well, not necessarily the best example, but I hope you know what I mean.
In any case, how you choose to desribe the action can be more important than how the rules say the action occurs.
I would say yes; the character has spent the feats to gain the benefit. Who says Fighters aren't good past level 4?
No, fighters aren't good past 12th-level. You're forgetting about Greater Weapon Focus at 8th-level, and Greater Weapon Specialization at 12th-level.
Of course, in my homebrew ice age campaign the fighter level requirement for these feats are replaced by an attack bonus of equal value, so they are open to anyone who has the prerequisite feats and required attack bonus.
By the way, I disagree that you can't be dramatic when describing static battles using the rules of D&D. You use something called "the imagination".
Also, I can certainly imagine a big guy in blood-splattered full plate whirling his maul above his head and smashing foes too and fro about the battle mat. Can't you?
I would say yes; the character has spent the feats to gain the benefit. Who says Fighters aren't good past level 4?No, fighters aren't good past 12th-level. You're forgetting about Greater Weapon Focus at 8th-level, and Greater Weapon Specialization at 12th-level.
It's a joke, actually. Apparently the Character Optimization boards over at WotC have decreed that it's useless to take more than 4 levels of Fighter. Though this is secondhand knowledge, as I have only taken a look at some of the more amusing threads there, like the angry midget (using a cleric domain plus the festering anger disease to gain infinite Strength - over time).
Hmm, actually i believe the term whirlwind attack comes from the idea that the sword is being spun in one big circle like a whirlwind, not that the character is moving like the wind. If it was at you say that the fighter was darting around making different attacks wouldn't he be making more than one attack roll. I still think the whirlwind attack is a natural progression of cleave. You learn to put all your strength into one strike then, you learn to push that strike through to another target after killing your first, then multiple targets, then you finally learn to make one big attack that spins around and hits everyone surrounding you. If it was a progression of dodge mobility spring attack then the final feat would be the character gets to make a an attack against every target within a straight line of 15 feet( assuming he has 30 ft speed) and ends up back in his original square or soemthing liek that don't you think?
If it was at you say that the fighter was darting around making different attacks wouldn't he be making more than one attack roll.
uhm... he does make more then one attack roll, he makes one attack roll at each opponent with in reach.