So I have some interest in how DMs that use level adjustmented (and other ECL adjusted) PCs deal with initial experience.
It seems at this point that I have seen three different systems.
The first method is as follows:
From my understanding the core rules are such that if you take a Lizard Folk PC you would would be 1st level (in whatever class) and would have a ECL of +3 (+1 level adjustment, +2 from Lizard Folk initial HD).
That means that the character will become 2nd level when he earns 10,000 XP - he'll be third when he gets another 5,000 XP for a total of 15,000 XP.
The second method is oulined in Savage Species - which I don't own but my understanding of the gist would be to divide the Lizard Folks abilities among 3 levels and have the player earn 3 levels of Lizard Folk before finally moving on whatever class he wanted to go into.
The third method is apparently from Eberron and I have really not seen much on it - if my understanding is correct (and my source is an biased Player) essentially what would happen would be that the Lizard folk would start with 6,000 Xp as a first level Lizard Folk and have earn 4,000 XP to make 2nd and another 5,000 to make third.
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So I'm just curious which systems other DMs use and why as I'm currently using system one but I have a PC who feels that system 3 is more fair - of course any system were he gets 6,000 XP for free is going to seem more 'fair', on the other hand his claims that he has to pay more XP at every level just for starting out with that 6,000 XP and needing 10,000Xp to get to 2nd and is this already being forced to pay lots of XP for his abilities over the long run.
The only "fair" method is your 2nd option, the method that began with Savage Species. It keeps the character the same as the other PCs at all points. So that's what I use.
The only "fair" method is your 2nd option, the method that began with Savage Species. It keeps the character the same as the other PCs at all points. So that's what I use.
To throw in my two cents, I agree that taking racial levels first before moving on to class levels is the only fair thing to do.
However, it does present the peculiarity that a Mind Flayer 3 (or whatever) is supposedly an immature mind flayer. The presence of such a young creature, and the erratic, quick maturation (leveling up) seems, to me, odd.
My practice has been to allow (at low levels) only characters of ECL 1-3, and just to cope with power differentials as best we can. I benefit from having a group of players that don't try to take advantage of this approach :)
Regards,
Jack
OK I actually think that the third system I mentioned might be from one of the Forgotten Realms books. Maybe Players Guide to the Forgotten Realms - of course I'm not 100% on that - it kind of has to be either Ebberon or Forgotten Realms because I know its not Dragonlance and I don't think there are any other campaign books from WotC out there.
The second method is oulined in Savage Species - which I don't own but my understanding of the gist would be to divide the Lizard Folks abilities among 3 levels and have the player earn 3 levels of Lizard Folk before finally moving on whatever class he wanted to go into.
I know that the 3rd option is not from Eberron, but as for the second option, if you were to go with that, this is what I would use:
Lvl HD Special
1 ~ 1 ~ +2 Con, -2 Int, +1 natural armor, 2 claws (1d3), hold breath, +2 Jump, Swim, Balance; simple weapons & shields
2 ~ - ~ +3 natural armor, claws (1d4), bite (1d3) secondary, +4 Jump, Swim, Balance
3 ~ 2 ~ +2 Str, +5 natural armor, bite (1d4) secondary
I use a variation of the savage species one, in which a character can alternate between 'monster' levels and player character levels until he completes his monster levels.
In my system, he has to include one level advance in his monster class in each 'rotation'. In other words, he cannot advance more than one level in any player character class without advancing in his monster class as well by at least one level. In this way, he will complete the monster levels in reasonable rotation, and the player still has the chance to try to develop his other class abilities. One should determine the monster levels using the savage species system, however, because they do keep it balanced, and it does keep the players motivated to complete their monster levels quickly.
I use lizard folk in my own game and I opted for your second method. I actually posted my variation on the lizard folk pc levels on these boards and recieved some great input. If you're interested a search should locate the thread.
Cheers
Llowellen
However, it does present the peculiarity that a Mind Flayer 3 (or whatever) is supposedly an immature mind flayer. The presence of such a young creature, and the erratic, quick maturation (leveling up) seems, to me, odd.
On the other hand even if your willing as a DM to allow players to start with +4 level adjusted creatures such as Half-Celestials your players won't go near them. They need 15,000 XP just to get to 2nd level - there going to die long before then because the 1 HD they got as a 1st level (insert a class here) won't be enough when they start facing CR5 challanges.
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If you have a character with an ECL of 4, they are suppposed to begin play with the same XP that a 4th level character would begin with. In this case, 6,000 XP.
However, normally if one player is starting out with an ECL of 4, it is assumed that all of your players will do the same. Essentially if the game begins at level 4, one player could take an ECL race, and another could create a 4th level human.
Now, the problem only arises when one character wants to play an ECL adjusted race in a game that essentially begins at level 1.
If that is the case, I usually start them with 0XP. They get the benefits of having the ECL adjustment at those early levels, but they won't level for a long time.
Sometimes my players have opted for that, but often they're interested in being more powerful than the other characters, not just more powerful in general, so decline.
Anyways, I have made characters take levels in their race before using the rules in Savage Species. That also works well. It does keep the character from being more powerful at 1st level relative to the other PCs without making him weaker at higher levels.
Though I will point out that characters with racial hit die don't get the advantages of taking a first level in a PC class. For example, they don't get x4 skill points (instead getting that with their first racial HD). That can be a huge disadvantage. I'll generally allow a character with racial HD to wait until their first class level to get the x4 skill points.
The first method is as follows:
From my understanding the core rules are such that if you take a Lizard Folk PC you would would be 1st level (in whatever class) and would have a ECL of +3 (+1 level adjustment, +2 from Lizard Folk initial HD).That means that the character will become 2nd level when he earns 10,000 XP - he'll be third when he gets another 5,000 XP for a total of 15,000 XP.
Actually, won't the character in this example be ECL4? 1 for the class level, +1 level adjustment, and +2 racial HD?
I don't like to let starting characters to begin with anything greater than +2 LA, since until they accumulate enough XP to level up, they're not as strong as the rest of the party. At higher levels, it's not much of a problem if you handle it right. I ran into this problem when I ran an evil game and we had lots of werewolves and half-dragons mixed with regular characters.
M@