Absolutely. The boldness of my reply was a shaky attempt at a tempered response to what I found to be an irrationally brusque defensive. I have friends who pirate and when the subject comes up, I am sure to let them know how I feel. I think the people who blow up at the mere assertion of wrong doing are those who must already feel a bit conflicted. Or not. I really don't know.
Actually, personally, I'm just sick of seeing Americans trying to tell Canadians that their way of life is best and that we all must fall into step behind them in every issue. You guys keep exporting bad economic theories up here, our copyright laws keep getting changed by the Disney lobbyists who pressure both the government and the American diplomats to Canada to muck up our laws so that Mickey Mouse never falls into the public domain, and you even tried (unsuccessfully) to drag us into that idiot war in Iraq. So maybe you'll forgive me if I'm a bit oversensitive to people declaring that they way they do things at home is the way things ought to be everywhere, especially when it carries the additional message that if things aren't the same way everywhere then the people who aren't getting with the program are reprobates.
Actually, personally, I'm just sick of seeing Americans trying to tell Canadians that their way of life is best and that we all must fall into step behind them in every issue. You guys keep exporting bad economic theories up here, our copyright laws keep getting changed by the Disney lobbyists who pressure both the government and the American diplomats to Canada to muck up our laws so that Mickey Mouse never falls into the public domain, and you even tried (unsuccessfully) to drag us into that idiot war in Iraq. So maybe you'll forgive me if I'm a bit oversensitive to people declaring that they way they do things at home is the way things ought to be everywhere, especially when it carries the additional message that if things aren't the same way everywhere then the people who aren't getting with the program are reprobates.Absolutely. The boldness of my reply was a shaky attempt at a tempered response to what I found to be an irrationally brusque defensive. I have friends who pirate and when the subject comes up, I am sure to let them know how I feel. I think the people who blow up at the mere assertion of wrong doing are those who must already feel a bit conflicted. Or not. I really don't know.
Some people will never be wrong because they'll just keep twisting reality until it suits them. You are one of them.
This is an international issue about international artists not getting paid for their work.
You won't lose sleep if some foreigner doesn't approve of blah blah blah? I'm a foreigner? Didn't think I was a foreigner. Didn't think you were one either. You rant on about the inadequacies of Americans to shift blame from your own penchant for file-sharing? Such faux nationalism. Where's your flag? I'll salute.
Methinks thou doth protest too much for someone who purports to not be losing sleep.
Is this actually a Canada vs. the US issue? No it really isn't. I never spoke of countries, I spoke of individuals. Though I didn't single anyone out, you were so taken aback that I didn't approve of something that you do that you weaponized the Iraq issue and your take on macro-economics in order to divert the conversation away from the fact that you, not Canada, is someone who does not respect intellectual property, and the consequences all this has on the artists.
You're so deadset on bringing up a blank media levy that there really isn't anything I can say that you can hear. I am only the ugly American with his bossy opinion. That's your predjudice. That's your blindness.
It's also odd that you'd assume to know my politics. I am not pro-war, I am a extremely long haired moderate with a strong history in the counter culture, but there are a lot of soldiers (in field) and ex-military on this wargaming site and this is a place they come to relax, not get riled by academic, contrarian minutia. I can respect that. Obviously, you cannot.
Go steal some Kyuss songs and don't worry about anyone else but yourself. By the way, I have a few Canadian friends, and they would seriously resent the way you fall back on national pride to back up your lack of personal responsibility.
You even stole your palindromes. Jeez.
Bob by Weird Al was on Poodle Hat.
Thank you. I'll give it a listen.
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As a Canadian - and a practicing lawyer - I can say that the poster above has seriously overstated the law in Canada.
Canada has not adopted a "file sharing is ok" policy. We have not adopted a tax on recording media as the fallback for all ills.
We have ruled that merely having a file in the shared directory of a P2P client does not prove mens rea to a quasi-criminal offence - which is a position that American companies are quite furious about. Our courts are not as sensitive as those in other countries to lobbyists which largely (though not exclusively) are American in origin.
We have imposed taxes on all CDR and DVD's with those amount going to Canadian music artists in accordance with market share. This has always to me seemed a little nutty - most especially given the purely FANTASTICAL numbers the Recording Industry of Canada put forward at Parliamentary committees to support the claim that 90% of all CDR's were used to record music. (My guess is that the large portion of them were used to pirate computer software, not music, but I digress).
Canada's tax on recording media stance was exposed as overly ambitious when the CRTC applied it to the hard discs (based on size) on Ipods and Creative hard disc mp3 players. The courts have now reversed it as being beyond the enabling regulation.
So the original poster is a little off on his facts.
For all that though - I do know where the original poster is coming from. The American RIAA has put a lot of pressure on Canada to come to heel and - so far - has done so without success. To go on top of a lot of other industry lobbying in this country - and yes - the Iraq War - the country has never - and I mean NEVER - been in such a downright virulent anti-American mood since "54-40 or fight" was a political slogan in Washington in the 19th century.
At the same time, the American government has imposed $5 billion on illegal duties on Canadian softwood and lumber over the past few years, raising the cost of a new home in the USA by about $3,000 unnecessarily. Even so, the American Gov't refuses to refund the money to Canadain businesses even though the Bush Administration has lost every single appeal on the subject. It seems that NAFTA is only good when it benefits American business.
Like governments everywhere, when it comes to "principles", the spelling ends with a "$".
So, I can understand where the poster is coming from - and to be blunt - I expect that if you are American - than you simply do not.
Putting that aside - I could see the RIAA and every major recording label go under tomorrow in a blaze of bankrupt glory -and out of business for good - and I would not be bothered by it in the least.
Recorded music is not going to stop because record labels stop making money off of it. The current market model won't work to make them money as it used to - that's all.
If a band uses recorded music to hype their product and make money off of concerts and merchandise - more power to em. But suing single moms and grandparents without a moment's pause has earned my enternal enmity and I wish nothing but permanent financial ruin and the death of their industry and the utter and complete loss of all value to their shareholders as a result. And I could care less whose interests that harms. Put whatever name you want to it: theft, stealing, copyright offence. Call it what you want: the argument from this particular industry sector is without moral authority to persuade me of the correctness of their position. Sorry. There are consequences to actions - and that works on both sides of the ledger.
While there are millions who consider this a very radical and comtemptible viewpoint - there are millions more who share it.
It does not matter much who is believed to be "right" and who is believed to be "wrong". Free music - like free e-mail - is a genie that is out of the bottle and isn't going back - ever.
So filesharing without paying is legal in Canada then?
'Cuz if it isn't, you're still trying to rationalize your illegal behavior to satisfy your consience. It's not a "foreign opinion" if you're breaking your own country's laws...I'm just pointing out the obvious. A law is a law, whether passed by Canadian parliament or the U.S. Congress.
Using the tired old line "I'm tired of Americans telling us what to do" is just dancing around the issue--you admitted to doing something illegal that harms artists and are now trying to rationalize it by blaming this Canadian tax.
Is this levy on blank media fair? Probably not, but unless your laws also permit free filesharing of copyrighted material, it's still illegal--fair or not.
Like I said though, lots of people I know do it and rationalize it as well and I don't think they're lesser human beings or whatever...it's their own conscience they have to deal with.
This isn't a Canadian vs. U.S. argument. I don't think any less of anyone who has a different opinion than me. It's just a vigorous discussion of differing points of view and I hold no disrespect for Dr. Awkward's opinion or on his morals....I just point out the black and white in this situation.
So the original poster is a little off on his facts.
For all that though - I do know where the original poster is coming from. The American RIAA has put a lot of pressure on Canada to come to heel and - so far - has done so without success. To go on top of a lot of other industry lobbying in this country - and yes - the Iraq War - the country has never - and I mean NEVER - been in such a downright virulent anti-American mood since "54-40 or fight" was a political slogan in Washington in the 19th century.
At the same time, the American government has imposed $5 billion on illegal duties on Canadian softwood and lumber over the past few years, raising the cost of a new home in the USA by about $3,000...
Thank you for your level headed insight into the legal particulars and the building resentment Canada feels toward the US. There are a good few lawyers in my family and have a great respect for those in your field.
I was confronted by an assertion that I was participating in anti-Canadian generalizations. This simply never happened and I'm growing weary of the roundabout. The only national generalization that has been proffered thus far has been, "You Americans think..."
I do not doubt these trade inequities that you have been mentioned, and many here in the states are often beside ourselves over just such matters, but I'm still not understanding their pertinence to my disagreement with the act of taking without paying. Canada despises recent US policy so it's open season on denying artists worldwide their hard earned royalties? Think of poor Alex Lifeson! ƒ¼ Does anyone remember the Lifeson?
As for disapproval over the Iraq war: if there is a political component as justifier for downloading, wouldn¡¦t it make sense to only take from artists who have a politic one disagrees with? Would never happen because it seems like Canadians wouldn¡¦t want to load up on Toby Keith tunes right now. You¡¦re only hurting the artists that probably agree with your political leanings.
This, what appears to me to be ethical relativism as justification for taking stuff, is why I used the term mob rules. I do believe, as far as most societal mores go, that stealing is considered wrong. Now if an artist doesn¡¦t get paid by a record company, the argument that ¡¥that¡¦s his problem¡¦ is just irresponsible. Jean Paul Sarte was French, not American. He said that by denying a certain great wrong our voice of opposition we have, in effect, supported it. I don¡¦t see this as being about record companies. I see it as being about the simple act of taking a product and not paying for it, and then coming up with a series of well thought out anesthetics to dull the pain of conscience.
I think what is critical to this issue is that you, my two Canadian contributors to this debate, understand that Americans, by and large, are very pro file sharing. Come on now. They steal and steal and steal some more and whenever I dare to express my anti-piracy views in public forum I am almost invariably assailed, from all directions, by my very own countrymen. That is why this Canada/US aspect is striking me as being beside the point. Let's face it, taking stuff for free is really popular, here and there apparently.
I see myself as the guy in the middle of a riot, clutching a copy of Being And Nothingness, staring on as an aggravated legion start tearing into stores to rob them of inventory. "Uh... guys, I know we're angry and all... but what does our cause have to do five finger discounts on HDTVs?"
::A brick hits The Jade in the head::
"I'll take that as a shut-up."
But you know I¡¦ll never shut up. I am the Lorax and I speak for the trees.
As for those in the US telling you guys what's wrong and what's right... if that were so don't you think we'd be all up in you over your recent legislation that legalizes sex clubs? Gang bang tuesdays? Oh, you folks are just saaaaaaaaaaucy. ;)
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As for those in the US telling you guys what's wrong and what's right... if that were so don't you think we'd be all up in you over your recent legislation that legalizes sex clubs? Gang bang tuesdays? Oh, you folks are just saaaaaaaaaaucy. ;)
[
It was not legislation. The Supreme Court of Canada last week changed the test to be applied when interpreting the word "indecent" in a provision of the Criminal Code.
We had previously used a "community standards" test. This was widely (and accurately) viewed by judges as just being nonsensical language to attempt to add the trappings of an "objective" viewpoint over what was really a "subjective" reaction to a given set of facts by the judge or the jury.
In its place - the SCC has now framed the test in terms of "harm". If what it going on in the club does not "harm" society in its proper functioning - and does not "harm" the participants - then it can't, by definition, be "indecent" in the legal sense.
And yes - the pulpits have been thumping and - as a matter of fact - the American Family Association is seething at this ruling.
Since you invited comment on it - the US Administration, American lobby groups like the AFA and members of Congress have *all* made a lot of comments, have donated money to domestic political opposition groups in Canada and have made threats over increased wait times at the border over the following Canadian social issues in the past eight years:
1 - Decriminalization of Marijuana;
2- Medical Marijuana legalization;
3- Gay and Lesbian Marriage;
4- BDSM sex clubs and conventions;
5- Refusal of Canada do deport anyone to the USA who faces execution;
6- Drug addiction programs;
7- Gun Control;
8- And now, in what promises to set the tone for a whole lot of additional "public morality" changes in the next ten years, the revision of the indecency test. Most lawyers agree this will lead to the formal legalization of brothels in Canada over the next ten years. (Prostitution has never been a crime in Canada - though common bawdy house, living off the avails and soliciting in a public place is illegal).
Put bluntly - the official legalities behind the underlying social values of Americans and Canadians have taken a rather sharp and radical divergence in the past ten years. At the same time, the religious groups that have political power in America are without the ability to have any real influence on electoral results in Canada.
The result has been that at the same time as the USA has veered sharply right, Canada has veered sharply left.
The right wing politicos in the USA hate this. It becomes very difficult to makes people afraid of a proposed social change when the supposed "Bugbear" they could have pointed to has not appeared north of the border where the change has been in place for many years.
And we'll end it right there. This has nothing to do with gaming in any way shape or form - let alone the Age of Worms.
Both of which are the reason that I come here to post and to read. So let's let it be.
Agreed...I just want to mention to the Jade that I still remember Alex Lifeson....and I'm not one of the officers that tased him at that New Year's party a couple of years ago...
I love Canada--Labatt's Blue, Rush, Neil Young, Triumph, Saga, legal Cuban cigars, super-clean streets, friendly people, SCTV, wonderful country! Politics and taxes are not issues for this forum and I'm very much at fault for making them one by mentioning that I never downloaded music from Napster until it became legal....(should have known that was going to start something...but then, I'm not the brightest tool in the shed).
I did not hear of Alex Lifeson's tazering. Poor man. He must have been so intoxicated that when the cops came through the door he accused them of being priests of Syrinx and began pelting them with Cheez Doodles and party favors.
Now, back to it:
A passing comment about downloading got off track from a discussion about a double bass drum pedaling thrash group. No one should have to apologize for talking about something off topic if enough people want to do so, and we did, so let's not. Believe me, this thread is likely to be entirely missed by anyone only visiting paizo.com to find out Balabar's cup size.
No one had a problem when, as Drunken Nomad said, we were talking about Skippy from Family Ties and the masterful Ronnie James Dio. So, getting off track is, and has always been, a heartily indulged misdemeanor. Apparently it might be controversy itself that is considered taboo but I have always held that controversy is vitalizing gold for a forum. It’s sometimes how we disagree and sometimes how we learn. I sure picked up a lot about Canada I'll tell you what. So a few of us disagree? No one was aiming for the groin or name calling. Well, except for all that "You Americans" business.
The scope of my disapproval with piracy was not political yet somehow it was read that way by some. I really cannot imagine how, but it was.
Steel Wind, with all politeness intended, I never let another person, immediately after they are done talking, decide for me that our debate has concluded. So, I guess it's up to me to end it by saying that although I was already aware of much of what you reported in your last post, that ideological gulf forming between our two countries still fails to address the only thing I was ever talking about: widespread intellectual property theft and the delusionary rationalizations of its proponents.
I've known people who steal, and they know that they steal. They don't tell me that what they were doing was not stealing followed by a bunch of irrelevant self serving statistics. For some reason, I can deal with that. It's unattractive but it's real. BUT AGAIN, Not Talking About Canada Here, Folks. I REPEAT: TALKING ABOUT MANY OF THE CITIZENS OF EARTH. NOT TALKING ABOUT CANADA. Way to barge into a spotlight.
That link I posted about the public sex club ruling (or whatever it was--my goal was humor, not accuracy) was just a lighthearted sidestep to ease the rigidity of our go 'round. If you folks want to chow down on Toklas brownies while carousing nude upon a hump mat in the middle of town... I wish you only the best and cast no judgments upon you. I'll even stand in the middle of the writhing love with a guitar in hand and serenade Oh You Pretty Things off Bowie's Hunky Dory album. I'm about as right as a left turn. If it heals the rift between our two countries, the rift that I single handedly created by bringing up file sharing, I will come up there and make sweet love in Moose Jaw then partake of your peace pipe ‘til I forget math.
As for the piracy issue having nothing to do with the AoW... it certainly will, the very moment the first person steals the coming AoW PDFs off Kazaa without paying Dungeon their fair due.
Let's dispense with this spiraling discussion of nations that is destined to never hit a valid mark. I know, well and good, that you want the writers on the Dungeon staff to be paid for their effort. Perhaps that, I assume true statement, might close the conversation?
How do you say 'not a chance' in Old Oeridian?
So, what do you think of Charlie and little Scottie Ian letting Danny and Frankie and Belladonna back into Anthrax?
Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
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So, what do you think of Charlie and little Scottie Ian letting Danny and Frankie and Belladonna back into Anthrax?
They still called it Anthrax without those guys?
Weak. I saw Anthrax twice. Once opening for Iron Maiden at the St. Paul Civic Center and once at the Clash of the Titans outdoor festival (with Slayer and Megadeth and "special guest" Alice in Chains). Both shows were incredible, especially when they were singing about some crazy Stephen King book or Judge Dredd. At some point after I stopped paying attention to metal I saw that Anthrax was basically just Scott Ian. And while Scott Ian is cool, he alone does not an Anthrax make.
--Erik
They still called it Anthrax without those guys?Weak. I saw Anthrax twice. Once opening for Iron Maiden at the St. Paul Civic Center and once at the Clash of the Titans outdoor festival (with Slayer and Megadeth and "special guest" Alice in Chains). Both shows were incredible, especially when they were singing about some crazy Stephen King book or Judge Dredd. At some point after I stopped paying attention to metal I saw that Anthrax was basically just Scott Ian. And while Scott Ian is cool, he alone does not an Anthrax make.
--Erik
Yeah. Anthrax mark II was different. But, it was good. Sound of White Noise had almost 80% good stuff on there. Stomp 442 took a couple dozen listens, but I ended up liking it-sorta. Volume 8 was the time that they came to Springfield MO and dubbed it "The real home of the Simpsons", which was pretty cool. Now, on that tour, they had to do 'medley' versions of the biggies. Like.. I am the Law/Madhouse/Caught in a Mosh, but it was reallyreally cool to be about 3 feet from the band and moshin' it up! And that cd has a song Piss and Vinegar, which is awesome! We've come for you all is the most recent before the reformation and it has a couple of really amazing songs, Cadillac Rock Box and something called Nobody Knows Anything that everyone should give a listen to. Charlie beats the living crap outta those drums. I do agree that Scott is the driving force...but I think that a band needs that kind of character-like Paul Stanley of Kiss, to make it last a while.
I saw that Clash of Titans tour. Geez! I think my ears are still ringing! WOW! Saw Megadeth again just before Dave smashed up his hand and disolved the band. He was soooo different, thanking the audience and acting all nice and stuff. It was weird. Dave is supposed to be pissed off all the time.
I saw Judas Priest last year. Black Label Society opened. Rob Halford was just incredible--those old geezers just blew everyone away....I was amazed at how many teenagers and twentysomethings were in the crowd. I thought they were there to see BLS, but they sang along to every Judas Priest song just like us balding fatbodies did.
I saw Judas Priest last year. Black Label Society opened. Rob Halford was just incredible--those old geezers just blew everyone away....
I just saw Halford for the first time a couple years ago. When he was still solo (opening for Iron Maidens' Brave New World tour). He did 'Electric Eye', and I was floored with how great those pipes of his sounded. Hats off to those guys.
I missed the Brave New World tour....still kicking myself because that is a great Iron Maiden record! It's much better than that stuff they put out in the late 80's and early 90's when they were drifting around a bit listless and heavy metal in general was trying to re-engage its gears.
To be complete, there is a group called Sonic Youth, if you spell it quick there is nearly no difference with..... Son of Kyuss!
Don't know if it was intended.
To be complete, there is a group called Sonic Youth, if you spell it quick there is nearly no difference with..... Son of Kyuss!
Don't know if it was intended.
That is a bizarrely astute nuance to pick on up, Christian. You have my eternal respect.
So, what do you think of Charlie and little Scottie Ian letting Danny and Frankie and Belladonna back into Anthrax?They still called it Anthrax without those guys?
Weak. I saw Anthrax twice. Once opening for Iron Maiden at the St. Paul Civic Center and once at the Clash of the Titans outdoor festival (with Slayer and Megadeth and "special guest" Alice in Chains). Both shows were incredible, especially when they were singing about some crazy Stephen King book or Judge Dredd. At some point after I stopped paying attention to metal I saw that Anthrax was basically just Scott Ian. And while Scott Ian is cool, he alone does not an Anthrax make.
--Erik
In 1985, at age 17, I was invited by the young manager of a record store in Yonkers NY to meet Anthrax during a signing. I had no idea who they were but my guitar player was eager, and so we went.
When I showed they were signing albums in a cramped record store basement. A cinder block dungeon so wall to wall with metal hedz that a fire wouldn't have had room to start. I couldn't get to the front of the denim clad ocean, so when Scott Ian, still having a head of hair then, entered and seemed to part the crowd in order to make his way to the elevated signing table in the back, I ambulance chased him. I'm 6'2" tall and Scott was... down there somewhere, so while walking behind him as entourage I played to onlookers by looking straight down at the top of his head.
When I knelt by the side of their table I studied them, trying to detect emanations of greatness as I wasn’t acquainted with their product. They were just normal guys, except for Joey Belladonna… he was chiseled, tan, and posing. ALWAYS POSING. The entire time I was there he barely moved… it was like he thought he was in a video and needed to stay studly at all times. He looked like a permed iguana. You know how sometimes you photograph well, and sometimes you don’t? Belladonna was never going to let a bad picture happen, not on his watch.
I got a band-signed copy of spreading the disease (I think I had my choice of four albums and that one had the best artwork)and then gave it to my guitar player so he could have two.
A reporter from the NY Times was there interviewing people and she took me for a quick bite. We talked about metal this and that for over an hour but in the end the paper only quoted my theory that anybody who kills themselves over a less than epic Ozzy song was a deeply disturbed individual just looking for an anthem to go out on. Coulda been the Care Bears suicide. Who can ever know?
I really wish people contemplating ending it all would stop playing my RPG and stop listening to my Rhoades era Ozzy. T'anari? I can't even spell that right! THANKS!
That is a bizarrely astute nuance to pick on up, Christian. You have my eternal respect.To be complete, there is a group called Sonic Youth, if you spell it quick there is nearly no difference with..... Son of Kyuss!
Don't know if it was intended.
Thanks:)
(though that is more about WWI, but still very gritty and D n D -ish)...and my fav! THE TROOPER!
I always thought this one was based on The Charge of the Light Brigade from the Crimean War in the 1850's. .....and the song ROCKS! As I get older, Maiden just gets better!
--Ray.
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To add to the evil-undead-god rock part of the thread. Here are some lesser-known bands that play some pretty sinister stuff. I know there are others I'm forgetting, but for starters:
Univers Zero (Belgium) - often called "chamber rock from hell", heavily influenced by Bartok. Instrumental, and atmospheric enough to be good background music for a game. Check out Heresie for their most sinister.
Sleepytime Gorilla Museum (USA) - wonderfully discomforting artsy metal. The opening two tracks of Natural History - "Hymn to the Morning Star" and "The Donkey-Headed Adversary of Humanity Opens the Discussion" - fit really well with the evil god theme, though the latter is likely to be distracting in a game setting.
Shub Niggurath (France) - part of a type of prog rock called Zeuhl (the band Magma basically invented this). I have "Les Monts Vont Vie" which is angular and dark. Sounds like it could have come from with a cult's lair.