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Now, I know a good party doesnt really need in-combat healing. The healing doesn't keep up with damage. Now, I'm talking about a paldin handling some in combat (lay on hands) the out of combat healing, and status removal. Can they handle int in lieu of a cleric? What archetypes would you use? Hospitaler? Sacred Servant? I'm curious if it can be done and how you guys would do it. My stats are (i rolled pretty good) 17, 15, 14, 13, 13, 8. Any help you can suggest would be appreciated!
paladin still needs another secondary healer. good candidites are a life oracle or a cleric.
Hospitaler (APG) with an Oath of Charity (UM) would be a pretty good healer. Might not need the oath, necessarily. However, any character with cure light wounds on their spell list can use a happy stick (Wand of CLW) if they are readily available.
I'm going to be in a group that is going to have a paladin, witch, lorewarden fighter, and arcane trickster in it. Both paladin and witch will be healers. I'll let you know in a couple months how it goes. :-P
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We rolled with a paladin as a primary healer in our Carrion Crown campaign up until just recently when we picked up an oracle. A wand of CLW and eventually CMW turned out to be an absolute must for us. We were up to our third by the time we got our oracle, and almost everyone in the party would have been dead at some point if not for those wands.
(the paladin being a dhampir and having to rely almost exclusively on his Lay On Hands to keep himself up admittedly added a bit to that need, but things still worked out great as is)
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Going healing first and offence second? I would still focus on preventing damage first, but here's my thoughts on it.
Str 14, Dex 13, Con 15, Int 13, Wis 8, Cha 17
Assuming that is before racial adjustment, I would increase your strength to 16 so that you're still relevant in melee.
I would take a look at the hospitaler archetype. There's also the sacred servant if you would prefer a domain to a lot of extra channeling; both have merits but you will only be able to take one. There's also the sword of valour archetype from Inner Sea Magic that allows you to get a boost on your initiative (handy for protecting others) and allows you to pre-pad your allies hit points with temporary ones that last for an hour.
If you go with a 13 intellect, that qualifies you for Unsanctioned Knowledge, which you can use to pick a number of great support spells, letting you be much more cleric-like than your party may expect.
EDIT: If you want truly versatile status-removal with a paladin, you probably can't beat the Oath of Charity.
I'm using my paladin as primary healer in the group. Halfling archer with favored class bonus helps, using shield other and paladin's sacrifice liberally. Greater mercy for the extra 1d6 if they don't have status problems, distant mercy from divine hunter archetype. Going for the ultimate mercy eventually.
Yes, he can, we do so routinely.
If you live in a world where wands can be obtained or produced without much trouble, then yeah, a paladin can be a fine primary healer. The ability to heal as a less-than-standard action, even if only on themselves, actually makes the paladin one of the more impressive combat healers in the game, and they're about as good at out-of-combat healing as anyone else. They don't get the full compliment of affliction removal spells, but you can't have everything. (And they do get restoration.)
The less other healing the party has access to, the more I would look into specialized healing options, but in me experience a paladin is adequate as a group's main healer.
If you live in a world where wands can be obtained or produced without much trouble, then yeah, a paladin can be a fine primary healer. The ability to heal as a less-than-standard action, even if only on themselves, actually makes the paladin one of the more impressive combat healers in the game, and they're about as good at out-of-combat healing as anyone else. They don't get the full compliment of affliction removal spells, but you can't have everything. (And they do get restoration.)
The less other healing the party has access to, the more I would look into specialized healing options, but in me experience a paladin is adequate as a group's main healer.
Agreed. If you can get the stuff, a Paladin is a fine party healer. You don't even need to build for it, just keep your spellcasting.
Now, I know a good party doesnt really need in-combat healing.
That very much depends on your enemy.
Yesterday we had to fight some incorporeal undead that caused bleed damage and hid in walls between attacks.On top of that the bleed damage healed the enemy.
I don't think winning that fight without in combat healing would have been possible.
As for suggestions:
You could look at the holy tactician. He is a good supporter that can contribute to the fight even if he does infight healing.
If you want to further buff your party you could take the flagbearer talent (unless you have a bard).
All in all he can buff the party, use teamwork feats to prevent damage and can heal if need be.
And all that without losing much damage potential.
Now, I know a good party doesnt really need in-combat healing. The healing doesn't keep up with damage. Now, I'm talking about a paldin handling some in combat (lay on hands) the out of combat healing, and status removal. Can they handle int in lieu of a cleric? What archetypes would you use? Hospitaler? Sacred Servant? I'm curious if it can be done and how you guys would do it. My stats are (i rolled pretty good) 17, 15, 14, 13, 13, 8. Any help you can suggest would be appreciated!
I've been running a game without a cleric in it for the last year or so - they started with a bard that had cure light wounds, and a paladin. The paladin soon took over as party healer, and has done a great job ever since. You do not need any particular archetype, as long as you keep your spells.
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My Kingmaker game is nearing its end. We have a paladin hospitaler and a bard. A wand of lesser restoration is very handy for dealing with stat damage, and wands of cure light wounds were used early in the game.
Now that we're almost done, our paladin almost never runs out of healing, and if there's enough widespread damage, the bard uses his soothing song.
In an undead heavy campaign, the lack of restoration might get painful, but my players have generally had enough time to get such spells paid for in the nearest town when they had need.
I think it's going to depend a lot on the combats.
For example, I'm currently in 3 games.
In the 3.5 game, we're 19th level, and in most combats, we need at least one heal cast. Not healing in general, but the heal spell, simply because we take so much damage that nothing else will suffice during the fight. (Or at least, we believe we need the heal; it's quite possible that in general the enemy will drop before they finish off the person who lost 1/3 of his health in each of the first two rounds, but we can't be sure.) This is obviously frustrating for the Ur-Priest, who has to spend 1/3 to 1/2 of his standard actions healing the party (and he didn't enter the game intending to play pure support).
In my Kingmaker game, we're only 3rd level, and healing needs have varied greatly by combat. We've had encounters where we need no healing, encounters where we had to exhaust all our healing resources including potions, ones where just one person needed healing, and ones where we all needed healing. A paladin would probably be ok for most of them, at least once he gets Channel Energy.
In the third game, Pathfinder in Eberron, we just lost our healer. Our party healing is now the ranger and my magus' UMD skill. Based on the combat encounters since the cleric's player had to quit the game (time issues), the GM has adjusted the combats to reduce the damage we take. He's also just given us some low-level healing wands to replenish our health with out of combat.
As a general rule, damage potential outscales healing potential (except for heal), but so much can be adjusted by the DM that it's going to be hard to judge overall. For out of combat healing, anyone who can use a wand of cure light wounds, and ideally, also a wand of lesser restoration is going to do the trick, but for in-combat healing, it depends greatly how much damage is being taken.
I've been working on a little spreadsheet to investigate various paladin healing options. Some of my findings:
* Sacred Servant using Divine Bond to gain more Lay on Hands has quadratic scaling (all other options are linear as far as I'm aware).
* Hospitaler gets the best scaling from Charisma
* Fey Foundling is a potent feat and well worth taking
* Greater Mercy is slightly better than Extra Lay on Hands
* In terms of healing power Sacred Servant > Hospitaler > Regular paladin.
Now, I know a good party doesnt really need in-combat healing. The healing doesn't keep up with damage. Now, I'm talking about a paldin handling some in combat (lay on hands) the out of combat healing, and status removal. Can they handle int in lieu of a cleric? What archetypes would you use? Hospitaler? Sacred Servant? I'm curious if it can be done and how you guys would do it. My stats are (i rolled pretty good) 17, 15, 14, 13, 13, 8. Any help you can suggest would be appreciated!
For what its worth, I've always seen the Paladin's role as 'healer' to be making sure he gets attacked instead of his teammates and then using Lay on Hands as a swift action. The fact that cure spells are on his spell list would make him an effective secondary out of combat healer if you got him a wand.
Check out my post here.
I have always though of Paladins as good healers in a pinch, which they still are. The mercy added on to a lay on hands especially helps by killing two birds with one stone, and channeling energy as a Cleric lets everyone else feel the love too. The main thing to watch out for as a dedicated healer is the secondary things such as ability damage and drain. Paladins have access to restoration spells, so picking up a scroll or wand every now and then never hurts.
Be prepared, work together, and you may live to see the end of the dungeon!
I don't force party's to have a healer but i don't baby them if they don't. If their clever enough to get along without a traditional healer then good for them but depending on your game/party that can be hard. Its their party though and I don't like forcing people to play one thing or another. Lots of ways to heal if you've got the experience in the party only new players need a dedicated healer for most party's though its just nice to have.
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Aasimars with the Hospitaler and Warrior of the Holy Light Archetypes
Stats
Str 15, Dex 14, Con 13, Int 13, Wis 10, Cha 19
Make ur charter middle age so u can get a -1 on all physical stats an a +1 on all mental the new stats would be the following
Str 14, Dex 13, Con 12, Int 14, Wis 11, Cha 20
That stat array will greatly increase the amount of LoH u get and Channels u can do with nice saves on top of give u decent skill points. Thanks to archetypes u wont use spells so u can focus on cha and str instead of thinking about wis.
paladin still needs another secondary healer. good candidites are a life oracle or a cleric.
Actually done it with a paladin + bard and paladin + druid in the past.
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Paladins make excellent healers. They have access to a lot of mercies that cures status effects, as well as getting Lesser Restoration early. They can channel in a pinch, and lay on hands to stay in the fight, without losing offensive power. Grab a wand or two, and you serve ALMOST as well as a cleric on the healing front.
I played a Warrior of Holy Light. His ability to cancel 1d4 ability damage later on was golden. But the lack of spells limits your out of combat potential. And there are so many spells on the pally list that simply are gold.
I contemplated doing the sacred servant for the healing domain, to empower the healing done, and grabbing the restoration subdomain, to get even more debuff removal.
paladin still needs another secondary healer. good candidites are a life oracle or a cleric.Actually done it with a paladin + bard and paladin + druid in the past.
I'm not convinced a Hospitaler or Sacred Servant paladin really does need a secondary healer, so long as they have access to wands of lesser restoration etc...
Sacred Servant paladins in particular can pump out crazy (out of combat) healing figures especially at high level, and there's the planar summons too, some of which can cast Heal and other powerful spells.
Paladins can be decent healers, but are behind Cleric/Oracle or a Witch with the healing patron. Below is a breakdown of the minimum I think is needed for a healer. The problem with the Paladin is that although he can handle almost all of the healing he gets it latter than the other classes. About the only thing he may have trouble with is raising the dead. I think there is a feat that allows him to do this but blows all his Lay on Hands.
Primary Healers
Cleric, Oracle, Witch (Healing Patron)
Secondary healer
Paladin, Alchemist, Inquisitor, Witch
Minor Healer
Bard, Druid, Ranger
Neutralize Poison Bard4, Cleric4, Druid3, Paladin4, Ranger3, Alchemist4, Inquisitor4, Witch
Raise Dead Cleric5 Witch6
Remove Blindness/deaf Cleric3, Paladin3, Alchemist3, Witch3
Remove Curse Bard3, Cleric3, Paladin3, Wizard4, alchemist3, witch3, inquisitor3
Remove disease Cleric3, druid3, Ranger3, alchemist3, withch3, Inquisitor3
Restoration Cleric3, Paladin4, Alchemist4, Inquisitor4
Restoration Lesser Cleric2, Druid2, Paladin1, Inquisitor2, Alchemist2
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Do you have to be a paladin?
I've been tossing around the idea of playing a Bard Archetype -
Dawnflower / SongHealerThe stat requirements wont be as bad as a paladin, you're still able to cast cures and at (I believe 8th level) can cast a cure spell as a swift action a limited amount. Songhealer allows you to use your level when using cure items instead of the crafted item up to your CHA mod.
All the above and still able to deal out good damage with your Dervish Dance.
sorry if this rambled a bit. Working on other stuff while typing this up, but take a look at the Dawnflower/songHealer Bard Archtypes if you need a healer but not looking to actually play one.
I only have two PFS characters; Malachi Silverclaw is a vanilla paladin with Fey Foundling who'll take Greater Mercy at 3rd.
The other is Niamh Snowmane, a halfling bard Dawnflower Dervish/Songhealer! She has the racial traits Fast Movement and Adaptable Luck, the traits Sacred Touch and Flame of the Dawnflower, the feat Fey Foundling and the spells CLW and Hideous Laughter.
Her stats are:-
STR 5 DEX 20 CON 8 INT 7 WIS 7 CHA 20
There's more to her than this, of course! I'm having enomous fun playing her!
In the Tide of Morning PFS scenario she took out the quickling in one round!
After researching (stealing) some ideas I found on various other boards...
I went with a Paladin/Oracle
Currently Paladin 2/Oracle 3
My party consists of a barbarian, sorceress, fighter (archer)... making me the primary/only healer.
I was amazed at how well this works.
The rest of my levels will be paladin. Might even go hospitaler. This is the cheese...
Oracle 3 (Life) gives life link for my entire party (3 others), additional mercy gives me channels.
- Life link lets me suck up 5 hp from damage each party members take. Lay on hands is a swift action to heal myself, leaving me a standard and move to do some damage.
- Channel lets me put out extra healing to the entire party as needed, but this is a standard action.
- The oracle levels get me heal spells (usually out of combat)
Add a wand of cure wounds, and the heals are covered while also being a flanker for the barbarian or a defender for the sorceress.