Halls of Harsh Reflections--heading off a problem.

[Twinsun]

The party has not finished this one yet but last night they got to the room in sodden hold with planks over the water. Dm's having read this module will know where I am talking about. I realized right at the start that it was going to be a nasty room but I ended up putting the 2 invisable stalkers in the well room instead of in this room. The DC for the Balance checks alone had the party at a huge disadvantage in that only the rogue and wizard has any chance of making them after armor penalities. The stalkers are just nasty (besides a 50% miss chance from concealment), 2 attacks at 10 (+12 because they are invis, +14 when flanking) for 2d6 +4 points of damage each on characters that are trying to balance on the beams, or be knocked into the water for the spike/weapon damage and then get the fight them if you survive from the water....
The highest ac in my groups party is a dwarven warrior with a 25 , sans buffs, but even if I group the stalkers on him they would have hit 50% of the time so 4d6+8 , sans crits, per round oh and did I mention the balancing checks....

All in all its a great encounter design for a unusual room, for a group of 10th maybe 11th level characters, not 7th...

I avoided all this by moving the stalkers to the well room. Here its cramped, movement is restricted for both the pcs and the stalkers, they can smack the snot outta someone with flank still but the party can bring to bear enough force to deal with them without death to members, there will be plenty of that in the two "boss monster" encounters coming up.

[Big Jake]

This encounter nearly ended with the death of two PCs, eventhough none of them ever fell in the water.

What made the encounter particularly difficult was the lack of a wizard that might have been able to cast farie fire on it or something. None of the PCs were able to see the invisible stalkers, so the gathered into two groups, and held actions until someone was attacked, then they would all attack into the same square and roll a miss chance.

Finally one of the PCs remembered that he had a tangle foot bag, and successfully used it against one of the invisible stalkers. As soon as it was visible, the two rogues tore it apart, and the second one fell shortly after.

The encounter had the players worried, annoyed, anxious, and whatnot. Enough so that they decided to take the prisoners out before continuing down the well.

I think that the time the use to re-group will be useful. They now know about the dopplegangers, and can start to prepare for the next round of attacks.

[Modera]

The group had troubles with this one but due to the fact you can "see" the stalkers with a DC 20 listen check if they are in a fight my group was able (with lucky rolls, save for the gith psion) to defeat them. I think it's a pretty group specific fight. I mean, one person with blindsense or blindfight and these things are done.

Also, a cleric with the earth domain and a decent knowledge check after a turn check and voila, two scard invisible things.

[Twinsun]

I am just cutious how you fighter class that tend to wear armor that effects balance checks managed not to get knocked to the water during the combats? If I remember for my group and they fighters they would have had base check balance 12, armor and shield mods around -8-10, so balance check DC for half movement and no fighting on the beams at 20-22. Now my "tanks" did not have much in the way of points in balance but still. Shrugs either way was just trying to bring it to DM's attention before they got themselves a TPK and some very upset players.

[Big Jake]

When the party entered the room, the two rogues went out first to check out what was around the corner they couldn't see. When they got attacked, they both made their balance checks and quickly went to "dry ground." The rest of the part never stepped foot on the planks.

This is pretty much standard for the group... so far they haven't rushed into any situation, and eventhough they couldn't see any enemies, they weren't about to step out onto the planks without making sure they were sturdy and whatnot.

So, I placed the invisible stalkers in position to attempt to bullrush players into the water, but it never happened. Eventually I gave up trying to push them in, and simply tried to beat 'em down. Since they didn't fight from the planks, no balance checks were needed.

I thought they handled it well. They were quite frustrated trying to fight an enemy they couldn't see, hear (until they attacked), smell, or otherwise track. Several of them took quite a beating, but I think the difficulty of this encounter will prepare them for some tough fights.

[Twinsun]

Yup I would have to say that they handled it well.

I guess part of the fault was in my opinion of how the action in the room should be ran. such as waitting on the tanks to get get onto the planks, flanking and striking a single opponent on the planks for force the balance checks, etc. However on thing that I dont remember is how intelligent the invisable stalkers are, so maybe they would not have used such tactics.

[Big Jake]

I don't think you're at fault for anything. I think that many players will be wary of the room, knowing that they could fall, even without combat to murk things up. By taking the combat to another room, you can let the players worry about it, figure it wasn't a big deal, only to be hit hard behind the next door, which still could have poured back into the previous area.

At one point I was really worried that the room might have turned to a TPK, and I was hoping that they would turn tail and run. I was glad to see your post, because I thought that my group was the only one that had some trouble with it. I wasn't going to start a thread about it, but I'm more than happy to join in on yours!

I think these posts will be helpful to other DMs, as well. I didn't think much about this encounter, so I didn't change anything. Had I really considered how difficult it was, I would have been better prepared overall. There have been some encounters I've changed throughout the adventure path, either to play to the party's strengths (or weaknesses), I just didn't realize how bad this one could turn out.