...or perhaps the same ones again.
I think one of these has been answered already, but I can't find it so let start by apologizing for the repost.
I'm prepping 3FoE (we finally finished WC) and haven't been able to decide how to address these two issues.
#1. the commoners - I believe we decided that there are 9 (technically 7-9, but my group is a bit overpowered, I fear, so it's 9); did we ever decide why they are proficient with two weaps? Also, they are listed as lvl 1, but their BA and skills seem to indicate lvl 2; should I lose the BA, or make them lvl 2 (if they're level 2, what does thay do to their CR?)
#2. the clerics - so it's been established that they should not have heavy flails and shields, since the dmg listed is for light flails, did everyone make that change or did you adjust the damage and lose the shields?
Thx
#1. the commoners - I believe we decided that there are 9 (technically 7-9, but my group is a bit overpowered, I fear, so it's 9); did we ever decide why they are proficient with two weaps? Also, they are listed as lvl 1, but their BA and skills seem to indicate lvl 2; should I lose the BA, or make them lvl 2 (if they're level 2, what does thay do to their CR?)#2. the clerics - so it's been established that they should not have heavy flails and shields, since the dmg listed is for light flails, did everyone make that change or did you adjust the damage and lose the shields?
I made them proficient in longspear and nonproficient in dagger. According to the DMG, 1st-level commoners are CR 1/2, so increasing them to second level would be a bit overpowering.
The clerics' stat blocks are written as if they had flails, including the damage they do. I just assumed "heavy flail" meant "flail". Flail is Hextor's favoured weapon, after all.
I went with 6. I don't know why, I thought I read it as 6 at one point. It didn't really matter for me since their main goal was bait. They never attacked as a group, since some went to the main arena right away to draw the group into the trap (which they did).
I used the damage listed in the text. To tell you the truth I didn't even notice it had flail damage and was listed as a heavy flail. ;)
I wound up taking the daggers away, figuring that with the tactics they "drill" on, the cultists would use the longspears (which have reach) and keep 5' stepping down the hall or grapple. Of course, with their allotment of hit points I don't see this thing as a running battle anyway.
Next question: any thoughts on the Grimlock 1st level fighter with +9 Handle Animal?
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I made them proficient in longspear and nonproficient in dagger. According to the DMG, 1st-level commoners are CR 1/2, so increasing them to second level would be a bit overpowering.
While I hate to contradict the DMG often, I've personally found that while an expert/aristocrat/warrior/adept NPC level is worth approximately 1/2 CR, a commoner simply doesn't measure up. With no good saves, 1/2 BA, and d4s for hp, these poor individuals appear to be CR 1/4... 1/3 at best. As far as I have found, a human commoner and a kobold are about even, so 2nd level commoners would be approximately equivalent to 1st level warriors.
Just my 2c
I wound up taking the daggers away, figuring that with the tactics they "drill" on, the cultists would use the longspears (which have reach) and keep 5' stepping down the hall or grapple. Of course, with their allotment of hit points I don't see this thing as a running battle anyway.
Next question: any thoughts on the Grimlock 1st level fighter with +9 Handle Animal?
Well... class skill, so figure 4 ranks. Skill Focus [Handle Animal] would be good for 3 more points. Then he'd need a Charisma of 14/15 (on a Grimlock fighter?). I suppose it's do-able, but it doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Probably just another of the MANY typos and basic numerical errors in 3FoE. Unless, of course, Grimlocks have a couple of racial hit dice (can't remember at the moment). In which case, he might have more skill points invested, or another feat like the one that grants +2 on Handle Animal and Ride checks (don't remember the name).
Well... class skill, so figure 4 ranks. Skill Focus [Handle Animal] would be good for 3 more points. Then he'd need a Charisma of 14/15 (on a Grimlock fighter?). I suppose it's do-able, but it doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Probably just another of the MANY typos and basic numerical errors in 3FoE. Unless, of course, Grimlocks have a couple of racial hit dice (can't remember at the moment). In which case, he might have more skill points invested, or another feat like the one that grants +2 on Handle Animal and Ride checks (don't remember the name).I wound up taking the daggers away, figuring that with the tactics they "drill" on, the cultists would use the longspears (which have reach) and keep 5' stepping down the hall or grapple. Of course, with their allotment of hit points I don't see this thing as a running battle anyway.
Next question: any thoughts on the Grimlock 1st level fighter with +9 Handle Animal?
Yeah, I sorta chalked it up to a typo, myself. he's got no modifier for Charisma, and although I forgot about Skill Focus (which I don't think he has, I don't have the book in front of me), Handle Animal isn't a Grimlock racial skill. I was actually thinking about multiclassing him as an Expert, but I'll probably just knock down the skill since I don't see him ever needing to beat my characters in a contested Handle Animal or anything bizarre like that.
I made them proficient in longspear and nonproficient in dagger. According to the DMG, 1st-level commoners are CR 1/2, so increasing them to second level would be a bit overpowering.
While I hate to contradict the DMG often, I've personally found that while an expert/aristocrat/warrior/adept NPC level is worth approximately 1/2 CR, a commoner simply doesn't measure up. With no good saves, 1/2 BA, and d4s for hp, these poor individuals appear to be CR 1/4... 1/3 at best. As far as I have found, a human commoner and a kobold are about even, so 2nd level commoners would be approximately equivalent to 1st level warriors.
Just my 2c
well, commoner or no, my group has learned to fear 3 kobolds and a scorpion, took out 7 lvl 5's without a problem, so i doubt that a commoner would make much of a difference.
i'd say that commoner is worth a 1/2 CR, at least the way i DM...
--Destroyer
"Fear the meat sandwiches!"
OK, I sat back down with the book an abacus and a sliderule and it has to be a typo or an oversight (the +9 Handle Animal). Let me know if I've missed anything:
*no Charisma modifier
*+3 for Skill Focus
*conceivably, he hcould have cross-classed 2 levels as a Grimlock (since it's not a Racial skill), the total number of skill points would seem to bear this out (for a + 5)
*in theory, he could have then taken four ranks as a 1st lvl fighter (which would account for the +9), but he only has a +1 modifier for Intelligence and therefore only would have gotten 3 skill points
I wound up making it +8 for Handle Animal and dividing the remaining skill points between Climb, Spot and Listen
The text also doesn't say anything about him having a shield (like the others) and he has a longbow, along with his battle axe, so I changed the AC 20 to 18 (10 +1 (Dex) +3(studded leather) +4(racial))
Lest it seem like I'm "piling on" the adventure (now that I'm prepping it for my group), I really like it overall. I had a hell of a time getting the information in the "Whispering Cairn" to my players because we have some hack and slashers. The half-orc and his band, as well as Filge, are all dead so I had to wing it. The cleric at the garrison who was helping them (since they had no cleric) has since cut them off (since their under investigation by the sheriff and his crew for the murders) and Smenk is going to start leaning on them hard so hopefully I'll be able to rein them in before things get completely out of hand. I'm hoping this old-school dungeon crawl will help our hack n' slashers get it out of their systems.