The DMG rules that when facing several NPC encounters, doubling the number of foes adds 2 to the encounter level (page 37)
i have several questions about this:
1. is encounter level (EL) the synonym for challenge rating (CR)? if not, what does it signify?
2. does the cited rule only apply for enemy-npc encounters or for all battles against more than one foe of one "category". example: if one orc (without npc-levels) is cr 0.5, are two orcs cr 2.5 because of that rule?
3. how do you handle this xp-award question?
1. is encounter level (EL) the synonym for challenge rating (CR)? if not, what does it signify?
Encounter level is a guage to tell the DM if the encounter is appropriate for his/her party of adventurers. A party of four seventh level adventurers should have a good time going up against an EL 7 encounter. Challenge rating is how the characters get experience points. Two challenge rating five creatures work out to be a EL 7 encounter, and once defeated earn each party member experience seperately.
2. does the cited rule only apply for enemy-npc encounters or for all battles against more than one foe of one "category". example: if one orc (without npc-levels) is cr 0.5, are two orcs cr 2.5 because of that rule?
To my knowledge it works for everything with a challenge rating, though it might not be so for traps. Also, two challenge rating 1/2 creatures is a EL 2 encounter. It goes, in order: 1/8, 1/6, 1/4, 1/2, 1, 2, 3, ect. No such thing as a 2.5 encounter.
3. how do you handle this xp-award question?
You award experience for each individual monster (I'm pretty sure anyway, this is how I and everyone I've ever played third edition took the rule). If the party kills two challenge rating one creatures, you figure out the experience based on the average party level versus a challenge rating one and divide that by how many members were in the party and award this to each member twice (once for each creature). Another way (the way I prefer) is to go on a player basis as opposed to the average party level. Say you have a party that contains two first level characters, a second level character and a third level character, they kill some monster which is challenge rating three, so you compare a first level character versus a challenge rating three creature to figure out their experience (dividing by four due to the party size), then figure out a second level versus challenge rating three for that character (again dividing by four), and lastly the third level character versus CR3 (dividing by four). This allows lower level characters to catch up to higher party members after long enough.
Hopefuly that made sense, if not, feel free to call me a crack head and ask that I re-explain.
thanks a lot!
XP is awarded for each creature encountered. Also, I don't believe that ELs work the same for traps. When fighting creatures, it is assumed that all the creatures will be in the combat at once. If each one was fought piecemeal, then the EL would equal the CR of each. Traps are generally encountered in such a way: one at a time. When determining an EL for a room or area or some such thing with traps, just use the highest CR present. If several traps were stringed together, so as to trigger each other or otherwise function more or less simultaneously, then you would add the CRs together as if they were creatures when determining EL, I supose.
I like the idea of determining each character's XP separately based on level. My party is always going to great lengths figuring up how to reduce the party level so they get more XP, and I really wish they wouldn't focus on such metagame systems so much. The game IS designed to level them up, they don't need to try to "cheat" it (and yes, that is their mentality) to succeed. This will stop that concern.
My party is always going to great lengths figuring up how to reduce the party level so they get more XP, and I really wish they wouldn't focus on such metagame systems so much. The game IS designed to level them up, they don't need to try to "cheat" it (and yes, that is their mentality) to succeed. This will stop that concern.
I (regrettably) completly understand. All the powergaming, imps, and template crazy characters drive me nuts. My PCs just don't realize how fun "normal" characters can be. Hopefully, the upcoming campaign being DMed by someone else in my group, which will be focused on RPing and exploration should hopefully alleviate this.
WaterdhavianFlapjack
2. does the cited rule only apply for enemy-npc encounters or for all battles against more than one foe of one "category". example: if one orc (without npc-levels) is cr 0.5, are two orcs cr 2.5 because of that rule?
Actually, EL for encounters EL 2 or lower works differently. To double the EL, you double the number of creatures. So one orc is EL 1/2. Two orcs are EL 1. Four orcs are EL 2. Eight orcs are EL 4. Sixteen orcs are EL 6.
Dsan1, you should read pages 48-51 of the DMG to get a full understanding of how this works. I don't think it could be explained any better than the writers have done in those sections. The table found on pg. 49 shows you exactly how to figure the EL of an encounter based on the CR of what you want to use. In the case of orcs, for example, they are a CR 1/2. If you look on Table 3-1: Encounter Numbers you'll find that two orcs would be an EL 1 encounter whereas 12 orcs would be an EL 5.
You may also notice that some of the CRs are found on more than one line in the same quantity. This reflects a varying degree of difficulty for some of the listed CRs. For example a single orc (CR 1/2) is not quite as challenging as a single zombie (also CR 1/2) by virtue of the zombie's damage reduction. So looking at that table you can see that 4 CR 1/2 zombies could reasonably be a EL 3 encounter, but 4 CR 1/2 orcs would be a EL 2.
In the case of traps, the EL usually equals the trap's CR, but sometimes a trap can affect the EL of an encounter with other creatures if all are encounted together and the danger it presents has a direct impact on the encounter. For example, a large room with a deep spiked pit in the center is quite dangerous when the party has to fight a party of gnolls that are trying to Bull Rush them into it. In this case, you could use the very last column on the above mentioned table (Mixed Pair) to determine what the appropriate EL is. If the pit trap is a CR 2 and thus an EL 2 and a party of 4 gnolls (CR 1s) is a EL 4, you would combine the two (EL 2 + EL 4) to get a EL 5 encounter.
Other things can factor into determing the EL of an encounter as well. Hampered terrain can make things significatnly more difficult when the PCs are fighting creatures that can move freely through the terrain. This could increase the EL by 1 or 2. While by the same token, an encounter that is extremely favorable for the PCs (reverse the roles of the example above) can decrease the EL by the same amount.
Again, I suggest reading the sections of the DMG I mentioned above.
Understanding the rules is always a good idea - once you grasp them you can save yourself the trouble of actually having to figure out the nitty gritty most of the time by going here:
I've done away with all that calculating XPs vs Party Levels. I use the alternate rules for character and encounter XP found in the Unearthed Arcana. It resembles a lot the old 2nd Edition version of XPs.
A Cr3 monster is worth 900 points, and five such monsters are worth 4500 points, no matter what average level the group is at. The xp/level advancement chart for the PCs is modified to take more xp to go up a level, so in the end a CR1 (300 xp) orc is more valuable to the 1st level PC (who only needs a total of 1000 points to gain a level) than the 10th level PC (who needs about 34000 xp to gain a level).
I know it sounds primitive to use this way to give XP, but I find it saves me the trouble of cross checking levels vs CRs and then calculating XP vs the number of creatures... I say it saves time and effort, and it still works pretty good.
Ultradan
thanks a lot everybody, now i've got it. i must have skipped the page 48ff. of the DMG without noticing...
see you!
I've done away with all that calculating XPs vs Party Levels. I use the alternate rules for character and encounter XP found in the Unearthed Arcana. It resembles a lot the old 2nd Edition version of XPs.
A Cr3 monster is worth 900 points, and five such monsters are worth 4500 points, no matter what average level the group is at. The xp/level advancement chart for the PCs is modified to take more xp to go up a level, so in the end a CR1 (300 xp) orc is more valuable to the 1st level PC (who only needs a total of 1000 points to gain a level) than the 10th level PC (who needs about 34000 xp to gain a level).
I know it sounds primitive to use this way to give XP, but I find it saves me the trouble of cross checking levels vs CRs and then calculating XP vs the number of creatures... I say it saves time and effort, and it still works pretty good.
Ultradan
This works if your players don't die much - or if they get some set of the remaining players experience when they do.
Otherwise the new system works better becuase it allows weaker characters to catch up with stronger ones. This is a real benifit in that its a kind of disguised. Player dies and gets lower level replacement - thats a pretty major insentive not to die so players work their asses off to avoid it much of the time (and they pay when they act careless) but once you have dished out the penalty the new character starts to close the gap pretty quickly and will eventually be almost as powerful as the rest of the party so the DM is not perpetually faced with dealing with the nunundrum of having partys of very different levels.
This works if your players don't die much - or if they get some set of the remaining players experience when they do.
Otherwise the new system works better becuase it allows weaker characters to catch up with stronger ones. This is a real benifit in that its a kind of disguised. Player dies and gets lower level replacement - thats a pretty major insentive not to die so players work their asses off to avoid it much of the time (and they pay when they act careless) but once you have dished out the penalty the new character starts to close the gap pretty quickly and will eventually be almost as powerful as the rest of the party so the DM is not perpetually faced with dealing with the nunundrum of having partys of very different levels.
When one of my players' character dies, I make him roll a new one at one level below the lowest party member level. I know it's tough, but it really keeps my players in check. As I calculate the experience earned, I use the 'pool' system... I distribute three quarters of all Xp accumulated equally among those present at the encounter (be it monster/trap or situation). The remaining quarter Xp goes into a pool. This pool is distributed as shares. Players get one share each for being present at the game, and additionnal shares for good role-playing and/or ideas. This gives the players totally different Xp totals, and different levels. Witch is one of the things that bugged me with the original way to calculate Xp. Everybody was on the same level (or almost). When one character would go up a level, so would all the others. Now, there's about three levels between the highest level and the lowest level in a five person group. It's fun to see the higher level fighter comming to the aid of the lower level ranger (and sometimes vice-versa!). I know it's not perfect, but damn does it save time and effort during a game... No cross referencing, no tables, I think it's great.
Ultradan