So, here's my problem: I've been a DM for a long time now, and I've come across very hard decisions to judge upon for myself, and I've come across yet another troubling topic; two-weapon fighting and extra attacks!?!
(ex. Drake, Elf Ranger uses his Longsword and his Shortsword to attack, and his total attack bonus is {+9/+4}. What happens attack wise? Does Drake, Elf Ranger get to attack four times for each attack bonus (-2 for two weapons of course), or what? PLEASE TELL ME BECAUSE IT IS VITAL FOR ME TO KNOW WITH A SAMURAI AND A RANGER NEARING LV. 6!!!!! ^.^
-Thanx
PH p. 160 PH.96
If you wield a second weapon in your off hand, you get one extra attack with that weapon. If you have the Improved Two Weapon fighting feat, you get another attack with the secondary weapon, but at -5. Since the normal prerequisites for that feat are a BAB +6, you'd get +6/+1 anyway as base attacks.
So here goes my math (please correct me if I'm wrong or interpreting the rules wrong):
Full round action attack: Primary weapon +4/-1 Secondary Weapon: +4/-4 (yes, four attacks per round)
Standard action attack: Primary weapon +4 Secondary Weapon +2
If the fighter or ranger doesn't have the improved two weapon fighting feat yet, the math would be:
Full round action attack: Primary Weapon +4/+1 Secondary Weapon +4
Standard Action attack: +4 primary, +2 secondary
Yes, no, Buehler?? Anyone? All my math is based on the Base Attack bonus of +6/+1 only.
PH p. 160 PH.96
If you wield a second weapon in your off hand, you get one extra attack with that weapon. If you have the Improved Two Weapon fighting feat, you get another attack with the secondary weapon, but at -5. Since the normal prerequisites for that feat are a BAB +6, you'd get +6/+1 anyway as base attacks.
So here goes my math (please correct me if I'm wrong or interpreting the rules wrong):
Full round action attack: Primary weapon +4/-1 Secondary Weapon: +4/-4 (yes, four attacks per round)
Standard action attack: Primary weapon +4 Secondary Weapon +2
If the fighter or ranger doesn't have the improved two weapon fighting feat yet, the math would be:
Full round action attack: Primary Weapon +4/+1 Secondary Weapon +4
Standard Action attack: +4 primary, +2 secondary
Yes, no, Buehler?? Anyone? All my math is based on the Base Attack bonus of +6/+1 only.
SO! Drake, Elf Ranger can attack a total of eight {x8} times at level 20 with two-weapon fighting, ambidexterity, and (of course) two weapons?!? That's....wicked!!! GO DRAKE!!! >.<
Now, say Drake had "Improved two-weapon fighting"...? {I know you get an extra attack with your "off-hand weapon", making the total x3 attacks.}
Minor corrections here. The big one is this: no character can make multiple attacks in a round without using a full attack action, even with two weapons, while hasted, using a weapon of Speed, etc. To attack more than once per round, you have to use the Full Attack action.
Secondly, when using Improved Two Weapon fighting at 6th level, a character with a base attack bonus of +6 and wielding two weapons would be able to attack with these base attack numbers:
Without Two Weapons - +6/+1
With Two Weapons - Primary hand: +4/-1, Off hand: +4/-1
Basically, when the Improved Two Weapon Fighting feat says "a second attack at a -5 penalty," that's the same difference between the warrior's first attack at highest base bonuse (+6) and his next attack, which is always five points lower. So, he can make four attacks when taking Full Attack action with two weapons: one primary hand and one off hand at his highest base attack bonus, -2 for two weapon fighting (assuming a light weapon in the off hand); then one primary hand and one off hand on the next sequence of attacks allowed by his base attack bonus, 5 points lower than the first two attacks and also suffering -2 for two-weapon fighting. Yeah, it gets ugly, and will only get uglier around 11th level when you're looking at Greater Two Weapon fighting and a full-attack action for 6 attacks. Slap on five levels of the Tempest prestige class, and you don't have a character anymore, you have a meat grinder.
20th level (good base attack bonus) with Two Weapon Fighting Feat and Improved Two WEapon Fighting Feat, I read as follows:
Full attack
Primary Weapon
+18/+13/+8/+3
Secondary Weapon
+18/+8
Ambidexterity? Is that an old feat or trait? 3.0 maybe? Anyway, I don't know what effect that would have. I don't recall where it was written, but I've read somewhere that no one can get more than 4 attack rolls per round no matter what, but I may be wrong.
20th level (good base attack bonus) with Two Weapon Fighting Feat and Improved Two WEapon Fighting Feat, I read as follows:
Full attack
Primary Weapon
+18/+13/+8/+3Secondary Weapon
+18/+8Ambidexterity? Is that an old feat or trait? 3.0 maybe? Anyway, I don't know what effect that would have. I don't recall where it was written, but I've read somewhere that no one can get more than 4 attack rolls per round no matter what, but I may be wrong.
Sorry, but I'm still slightly lost. Let me straighten things up by saying, "What do you do with your off-hand?" Does that hand get AS MANY or 1/2 AS MANY or just ONE MORE attack or what? I get the penalties, just not the attack sequence...^.^'
-Sorry
Ph 160 "If you wield a second weapon in your off hand, you can get one extra attack per round with that weapon." I'm sure they didn't mean that you get an extra attack on top of all the attacks you get on the attack chart, just one wattack with your second weapon, period.
If you have the Improved Two Weapon Fighting Feat, you get another one. No more than two, ever.
That's how I read the rules, but I may be wrong. The attack table applies only to your primary weapon, that's why you can't get more than 2 attacks with your off-hand weapon.
I emphasize that I may be wrong, but that's how I read the rules.
It's confusing to everyone, I think.
It's confusing to everyone, I think.
Have you ever gone up to a woman after you've rehearsed what you were going to say, and then totally lose, then when she leaves for whatever reason, you get it? That's just waht happened; "Your Ranger has gained a level!!!"
THANK YOU! NOW it makes sense. So the primary weapon gets the Atk.Bon. as usual, but my off-hand weapon gets only one more for {Two-Weapong Fighting}, and a third for {Improved Two-Weapon Fighting}....right? Just one more thing! {OH GOD NOT ANOTHER ONE?!?} So what ATK BON> do I give the (Off-Hand) weapon?THANKS AGAIN YOU GUYS!!!
Well, hopefully I'm right. The attack bonus your off hand weapon gets is either -2 off your first base attack bonus, or
-5 for the second off-hand attack.
So if your primary attack bonus +6/+1, your attacks with the secondary weapon, assuming you have both feats, is +4/-4
I'm probably wrong, but you're welcome anyway. Have fun.
The above numbers are all a little off. Here's some examples:
Fighter, with Two-Weapon Fighting and a light weapon in the off hand, using a Full Attack Action:
Level : Attacks : Off Hand Attacks (Description)
1st: -1 : -1 (Two attacks each round)
4th: +2 : +2 (Two attacks each round)
6th: +4/-1 : +4 (Three attacks each round)
9th: +7/+2 : +7 (Three attacks each round)
11th: +9/+4/-1 : +9 (Four attacks each round)
14th: +12/+7/+2 : +12 (Four attacks each round)
Fighter, with Two-Weapon Fighting, Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, and a light weapon in the off hand, using a Full Attack Action:
6th: +4/-1 : +4/-1 (Four attacks each round)
9th: +7/+2 : +7/+2 (Four attacks each round)
11th: +9/+4/-1 : +9/+4 (Five attacks each round)
14th: +12/+7/+2 : +12/+7 (Five attacks each round)
16th: +14/+9/+4/-1 : +14/+9 (Six attacks each round)
20th: +18/+13/+8/+3 : +18/+13 (Six attacks each round)
Fighter, with Two-Weapon Fighting, Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, Greater Two-Weapon Fighting and a light weapon in the off hand, using a Full Attack Action:
11th: +9/+4/-1 : +9/+4/-1 (Six attacks each round)
14th: +12/+7/+2 : +12/+7/+2 (Six attacks each round)
16th: +14/+9/+4/-1 : +14/+9/+4 (Seven attacks each round)
20th: +18/+13/+8/+3 : +18/+13/+8 (Seven attacks each round)
And, the above examples are only if the fighter can make a Full Attack Action. If the fighter ever has to move (more than a five-foot step), then he only gets one attack, at his highest attack bonus.
Examples:
Level : Move : Attack Bonus
1st : 20 feet : +1
6th : 20 feet : +6
11th : 20 feet : +11
16th : 20 feet : +16
20th : 20 feet : +20
The -2 penalty for using an off hand weapon does not apply if the fighter does not use the off hand weapon.
It is very common, during high-level skirmishes, for an opponent to attack and move so that the fighter is denied using a full attack action.
Fighter, with Two-Weapon Fighting, Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, Greater Two-Weapon Fighting and a light weapon in the off hand, using a Full Attack Action:
20th: +18/+13/+8/+3 : +18/+13/+8 (Seven attacks each round)
And to him I say, "Good day, sir." And hopes that he slips in my sh*t as I run like heck in the other direction. lol
It is very common, during high-level skirmishes, for an opponent to attack and move so that the fighter is denied using a full attack action.
Unless the fighter also has Quick Draw and a ton of daggers. The fighter would be able to throw daggers at the same bonuses.
I had a player who played a Kensai (the fighter variant in Dragon #310, not the Complete Warrior) that specialized in daggers. Very effective, except when he needed to overcome some steep DR, like a Dragon. Or even an animated chain, very much like the one in Life's Bazaar. :)
I forgot about Greater Two Weapon Fighting...so that's where the third attack with the off hand weapon comes from....thanks Big Jake! (My son's name is Jake--but he ain't big yet)
Just to confirm - Big Jake's numbers are correct.
Save yourself the killer headache and feed the character through PCGen.
Just to confirm - Big Jake's numbers are correct.
Yep, this post helped me learn something too.
He slices, he dices; he makes Julien fries!!! ^.^ Thanx guys. I get it now! {I kept forgetting the main rule on "two-Weapong Fighting"; 'You may make ONE extra attack with your off-hand weapon'.}
THANX EVERYONE!!!
It's confusing to everyone, I think.
Very often... and this is just the simple questions about TWF. It gets more confusing as you add different natural abilities or class abilities along with it.
I'd say more, but I'm not sure if we want to open that can of worms here.