Whispering Cairn TPK


Age of Worms Adventure Path


Bearing in mind that this is mostly my fault for not scaling the adventure properly, I really miss the "Scaling the Adventure" sidebars. What ever happened to those? I just wiped out my entire 3-person party.

Here's what happened (minor spoilers, but intentionally vague): after a brief scuffle in town, the PCs (Cleric of Wee Jas, Fighter, and Monk) made their way to the Cairn. They handily dispatched the first encounter, explored a bit more, and experimented in room 7. The first PC arrived in area 9, but refused to step foot off the platform. The remaining PCs above switched to a different platform, triggering an encounter. They ringed themselves with torches in the 2 rounds they had, which I decided gave them an intimidate check against the non-intelligent portion of the encounter... the check succeeded, and that portion of the combat was avoided. Unfortunately, the abberration then tore the remaining party to shreds, taking the monk to 0hp in one strike, and eventually whittling the cleric down as well. The hit rolls just weren't coming for them, and the monster suffered only a single hit in retaliation.

Ah, well. Better luck next time, hopefully.


I believe the "Scaling the Adventure" sidebar will be in the online supplement. Sorry, dude.


Is your party 1st level? I don't think a Scaling the Adventure sidebar would help you here, as there is not much downward scaling available for a 4-member party of 1st-level characters. Judging by the average EL of the encounters in this adventure, I'd say at a minimum you need 4 PCs for them to have a chance of survival. Try running an NPC with them next time, maybe Melinde from the chapel of Heironeous.


Before your cleric went down would have been a perfect opportunity for some 'fudge rolls' and great acting on your party. Rather than have the party completely go down give the characters a chance to escape or have the monster 'miss' a few times. I know it sounds like cheating and against the spirit of the game but nothing spoils a great fun game more than having to throw all your/their hard work down the drain and start again. At first level a few 'terrible rolls' by the DM at key times is almost mandatory due to the ease of death for such groups.

Anyway just my opinion.

I haven't recieved my copy of the adventure yet but is it particularly difficult? Is there a good likelihood of TPK?

Delvesdeep

Paizo Employee Chief Creative Officer, Publisher

I think with an inexperienced group with fewer than four players with some cold dice there is definitely a potential for a TPK. You'll definitely want a cleric, and it pays to stock up on cure potions and the like, or to take the dungeon _very cautiously_.

This is a dungeon in the grand tradition of Dungeons & Dragons. If your players have not yet learned to be careful, they will probably have a few difficult lessons during the course of the adventure.

Sorry about the TPK. They should be proud of being the first one in the world, though. ;)

--Erik Mona
Editor-in-Chief
Dragon & Dungeon


That aberration got trounced by the party's Barbarian... It only took one hit.... I was sooooooooo disappointed, they didn't even flinch, just swatted it like a bug. But that IS a party of four and he did roll a natural twenty.

Honestly I'm not sure this is an adventure I'd want to take on with a group of three first level PC's... maybe second level, brave group you have there!

Contributor

I've been trying to talk my wife into playing it; at first, I wasn't as impressed with it as I thought I would be - but it certainly got better the further I read into it. I chalked up my initial dislike to being tired when I read it.

Anyway, this could become a good "advice" thread. If I do run this for my wife, it'll most likely be "solo." I've already decided I'd allow her to have two gestalt rules characters of her own, and I'd most likely send the paladin with her as well - which could create all sorts of fun, since my wife favors the ever-popular "CN morally vague rogue" type of character. :)

What are some suggestions - from Erik or other DMs - to sort of scale the adventure slightly for smaller parties? I'd hate to talk my wife into putting in the effort to make two gestalt characters, only to TPK her.


Zherog wrote:


What are some suggestions - from Erik or other DMs - to sort of scale the adventure slightly for smaller parties? I'd hate to talk my wife into putting in the effort to make two gestalt characters, only to TPK her.

Dude, I learned the hard way! Never kill off the first character that your significant other spent hours creating, until your loved one is hooked to the point that they are making up other characters on their own. That is, if you ever want them to play again.

In a new gamer's first game, they should be a hero that "wins", as much as you can win in D&D. You want them to have fun, and losing a character that they spent lots of time on is usually not what new players consider fun.

ASEO out

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Running adventures for only one player opens up a host of issues. For one thing, it turns relatively minor effects like short-term paralysis into instant kills. For another, it means that battles with lots of bad guys are going to be a LOT more difficult.

As a general rule, I'd replace most combat encounters with multiple enemies with encounters with one or maybe two enemies at a time. And monsters like ghouls should be used carefully; maybe even replacing a paralysis attack with a slow effect?

Growing up, I ran a fair number of single player campaigns, in which I adopted a different approach—I ran several NPCs to aid the single player. I ran my younger sister through all 14 of the Dragonlance adventures in this manner, and it was a blast!


Honestly I think you'll have much more fun in any D&D adventure playing in a group with at least 2 players. You don't want to upset your relationship with your wife, as could easily happen in a game where you have the final word on the rules and she has no one to co-operate with. I never liked playing D&D one-on-one because there is no collaboration, which is what makes D&D fun.

Look on bulletin boards (online or at your local hobby store) for players seeking a game, I guarantee you will find some. Tell your friends you are starting a D&D game and ask them if they know anyone who would be interested in joining. This will be a lot more fun (and less game balance hassle) if you have a group of players to enjoy this fantastic adventure rather than just one trying to juggle several characters while you juggle the CR of her opponents.

Contributor

Aseo wrote:
Dude, I learned the hard way! Never kill off the first character that your significant other spent hours creating, until your loved one is hooked to the point that they are making up other characters on their own. That is, if you ever want them to play again.

Oh, my bad. She's not new to gaming - we've been gaming together since we met in 1988. I meant new, as in, just made - not new, as in first time.

As a DM, I generally avoid first level just because of the lethality of it. Typically, I opt to start around 3rd level or so - still low level, but a crit from a random orc won't put you six feet under.

I suppose one thing I could do is start her off with 2nd level gestalt characters rather than 1st level. This'd at least give her the HP to absorb a hit or two. Any other suggestions? I roll dice out in the open, so while fudging is a great idea with first level PCs, it won't work for me.

Contributor

James Jacobs wrote:
Running adventures for only one player opens up a host of issues. For one thing, it turns relatively minor effects like short-term paralysis into instant kills. For another, it means that battles with lots of bad guys are going to be a LOT more difficult.

Yeah, been there, done that, got the bruises to prove it. :) That's why I'd allow her to have two PCs - it makes things such as paralysis effects and hold person spells a little less deadly.

JJ wrote:
Growing up, I ran a fair number of single player campaigns, in which I adopted a different approach—I ran several NPCs to aid the single player. I ran my younger sister through all 14 of the Dragonlance adventures in this manner, and it was a blast!

Yeah, I've done the DMPC thing in the past too - and, honestly, I'm not opposed to it again.

QBert wrote:
Look on bulletin boards (online or at your local hobby store) for players seeking a game, I guarantee you will find some. Tell your friends you are starting a D&D game and ask them if they know anyone who would be interested in joining. This will be a lot more fun (and less game balance hassle) if you have a group of players to enjoy this fantastic adventure rather than just one trying to juggle several characters while you juggle the CR of her opponents.

I agree - but conflicting schedules keep us from gaming with most of our friends. She's currently DM'ing a City of the Spider Queen campaign for me and a friend of ours; she and I have talked about possibly running Age of Worms once a month as a break for her, but she wants to wait a little while before making that decision. So, really, I'm just gathering advice in case I end up running her solo through it.


Erik Mona wrote:

I think with an inexperienced group with fewer than four players with some cold dice there is definitely a potential for a TPK. You'll definitely want a cleric, and it pays to stock up on cure potions and the like, or to take the dungeon _very cautiously_.

This is a dungeon in the grand tradition of Dungeons & Dragons. If your players have not yet learned to be careful, they will probably have a few difficult lessons during the course of the adventure.

Sorry about the TPK. They should be proud of being the first one in the world, though. ;)

I don't blame you for the TPK, Erik. :) I don't think the module was poorly designed; I like it (or I wouldn't have picked it to run), and the players had fun right up to that last fight.

The group is not inexperienced, and I think they were appropriately cautious, but the split party (one person at a time on the platform) and the smaller group hurt them. An unlucky first attack by the abberration halved the remaining party strength, and the cleric simply wasn't strong enough to take on a CR 2 encounter by herself.

PS -- One other factor plays in, which is that the group was not designed goal-oriented, but RP-oriented, so they didn't try to fill the classic roles. No rogue, no mage.

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