This bit of text is from Pathfinder #4
It might be that male and female shining children are sexually dimorphic, or there might be other poorly understood differences, perhaps between juvenile and adult forms, molting forms, or larval and pupated forms. The answers to such questions are unlikely to ever be discovered, as shining children are notoriously unwilling—sometimes murderously so—to discuss themselves.
I'm a DM. I like knowing everything about my world. Reading a monster description that says that no one knows something about the monster just irks me. I'm paying for a monster write up and I get stuff like 'the answers to such questions are unlikely to ever be discovered'. I don't care if shining ones are unwilling to discuss themselves. I want hard information in my write up. It's okay to say that no one in the game world has that information as background flavor, but give it to me, damn it! Otherwise I tend to think that the creator was too lazy to think it up.
I know I can make up my own reason for it. Having to not make up reasons for things is why I buy game material. I can't help feeling shortchanged.
this should carry a spoiler warning.
Done.
Creative Director
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I agree, actually. Introducing a new monster or location or item and then saying "nobody knows how this thing works" DOES seem a little lazy. And normally, we won't be pulling this type of stunt in Pathfinder. But in the case of this particular monster, I felt the ambiguity worked well. Partially because it's such a strange monster, but also partially because at the time we were working on Pathfinder, we didn't quite have the way Golarion's multiverse works all figured out. Rather than nail this monster down to an as yet unfinished multiverse, I decided to go with Wolfgang's original description so that we can fit it in later if need be without TOO much retconning.
So you can probably chalk this one up to "New Campaign Setting Growing Pains" or some such.
** spoiler omitted **
I don't know. Sometimes I like this sort of thing. Some parts should forever be left in the DM's hands and never be explained explicitly in the published material. Shouldn't be the norm, but I find it adds flavour to the whole thing.
How does the DM knowing mean that some NPC somewhere knows? Maybe the PCs will be the first people to discover the terrible secret of blahdeblah?
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You've nailed my point. If they were SUPPOSED to know, they wouldn't be designed such that "no one knows." There'd be a stated Adventure Hook if someone knew, or if there was a way to find out. The information isn't there because of laziness or because no one knows and no one is ever supposed to find out.
Does the creature know? If the creature is not immune to mind control or mind reading, then theoritically, if it knows, then it is possible TO KNOW for someone else. I would be more satisfied with the explanation if it was made clear that the creature itself does not know.
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I suppose you could if you wanted to talk to a chaotic evil outsider and find out where it came from.... though why you would is beyond me. The information is so vague about them and how they were discovered, so unrelated to anything you might do, it doesn't matter.
But simple fact is, in an encounter such background information is irrelevant.
The creature is shrouded in mystery. That's the whole point. You're not supposed to find out and the description says they won't talk about themselves. Not to mention this creature isn't even part of the AP so who cares. :P
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I suppose you could if you wanted to talk to a chaotic evil outsider and find out where it came from.... though why you would is beyond me.
You've never worried about where the nasty came from, how many of them there are, whether there might be more along soon... I've played with other people who ran geeked out monster-hunters who tried to dissect and take samples every time we squished a giant bug, let alone having the chance to magically interrogate the mind of a previously unheard of outsider!
I thin ktoo much thought has gone into this :p
I personally don't think every question needs to be answered. If the DM knows, then someone in the world knows, which means "no one knows" isn't true.
If you think the DM is a small ugly guy running around in the game world giving advice to the kids, you've watched that D&D cartoon show one time too often!
I personally don't think every question needs to be answered. If the DM knows, then someone in the world knows, which means "no one knows" isn't true.If you think the DM is a small ugly guy running around in the game world giving advice to the kids, you've watched that D&D cartoon show one time too often!
HA! That made me actually laugh out loud.
You know, somebody geekier than I told me that they picked up the DVD set of that.. And there's actually a final episode that wraps things up (I don't know if it was ever aired on TV.)
You know, somebody geekier than I told me that they picked up the DVD set of that.. And there's actually a final episode that wraps things up (I don't know if it was ever aired on TV.)
** spoiler omitted **
There was never an actual final episode...at least not at the time. Cartoons were not made with endings at the time. I think one of the lead writers eventually wrote an ending (and that was what was included) when he kept getting asked about it, but it was after the show went of the air.
There was never an actual final episode...at least not at the time. Cartoons were not made with endings at the time. I think one of the lead writers eventually wrote an ending (and that was what was included) when he kept getting asked about it, but it was after the show went of the air.
Ah! I stand corrected but blame second hand information.
Yeah, I recall cartoons of 'that time'. ;)
This is something thats been croping up here abouts quite a lot latelly - "Give me an answer, and make sure its canon".
I dunno, I know the OP said they bought supplements so that they dont have to make stuff up, but isnt that kinda where the fun comes from? Making stuff up with your buddies?
There's more than enough info out there for people to build and run entire campaigns without ever having to make anything up, and thats if you limit yourself only to Paizo's stuff - I have years worth of game sitting on my shelf, and I'll probably never get 'round to using it all up - not least because I love making up stuff.
I'm rambling - I guess what I was trying to say is there's plenty of material out there that doesnt need any extra work - this is one small thing, if its no good to you, pass it by. And if its cool or intreaguing to you as far as it goes, then maybe its worth filling in the blanks on, at some point.
Sorry for the double post -
I also meant to say - I find supplements that fill in all the blanks, even if the players are never going to uncover the information, leave me a little cold. Its all there, on the slab, so to speak. I like a little mystery - keeps me coming back for more :-)
I personally don't think every question needs to be answered. If the DM knows, then someone in the world knows, which means "no one knows" isn't true.If you think the DM is a small ugly guy running around in the game world giving advice to the kids, you've watched that D&D cartoon show one time too often!HA! That made me actually laugh out loud.
You know, somebody geekier than I told me that they picked up the DVD set of that.. And there's actually a final episode that wraps things up (I don't know if it was ever aired on TV.)
** spoiler omitted **
I think there's a difference between having all monsters having vague-contrasting ephemera or only having such questions relegated to very few. I think Pres has a good test: if the creature knows, then the answer can be revealed. Of course, just what the creature believes to be true might still be an ignorant falsehood ("But my sister-mamma always said my pa was the goat.").
Coming soon "The Census of Cthulhu".
I dunno, maybe it's just my scientific background, but to me there is "what people know" and "the truth", and the two are not necessarily the same thing. As a DM, when I read a description I like to know both. Even if absolutely no sentient being on the Prime Material plane knows what the truth is, as a DM I want to.
So I agree with doppleganger. A write-up like that always seems like a bit of a cop-out to me. Give me the facts. If I don't like 'em, I'll change 'em. But I'd at least like to have something to start with.
Greg
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If you think the DM is a small ugly guy running around in the game world giving advice to the kids, you've watched that D&D cartoon show one time too often!
While I'm sure that was a joke and quite a funny one at that, I want to make sure my point was clear. What I meant was that if the DM knows, that means he'll create a scenario where the PCs can find out. Whether it be a NPC, a tome, or whatever and thus defeats the point of "no body knows."
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While I'm sure that was a joke and quite a funny one at that, I want to make sure my point was clear. What I meant was that if the DM knows, that means he'll create a scenario where the PCs can find out. Whether it be a NPC, a tome, or whatever and thus defeats the point of "no body knows."
No I won't, don't try and predict how I DM. If I know it does not make it inevitable that I'm going to make a scenario that shows that information to the PCs.
With divination magic, research and determination this should not be unknowable. I don't want to know so that I can reveal; I want to know in case my PCs do the research and I have to reveal.
Knowing creates no problems/work for the DM, not knowing might do...
If you think the DM is a small ugly guy running around in the game world giving advice to the kids, you've watched that D&D cartoon show one time too often!While I'm sure that was a joke and quite a funny one at that
Of course it was a joke. Can't resist.
Personally, I like when this sometimes happens, because we DMs like a bit of mystery, too. Plus, you can be sure that if you come up with something about it, no one else will know it. If it's written down in a published book, the players might read it one day and BAM! (Of course, you can change stuff like that as much as you want, but still...)