Does anyone else find it difficult to approximate the difficulty level of large parties of players? All of the CRs for monsters are designed for about 4 players. We play with 7 or 8 players, sometimes 9! I find it difficult to design encounters for the players that are not total pushovers, and yet don't completely annihilate the party.
I came up with a complex system, by trying to reverse engineer the CR table on page 49 of the DMG. It seems to work well so far, though the players tend to level after about 5 or 6 encounters. Which is fine with us, since we're all power gamers. :)
I'm curious if anyone else has a system for large parties, or if anyone else even bothers with large parties.
-Geoff
Does anyone else find it difficult to approximate the difficulty level of large parties of players? All of the CRs for monsters are designed for about 4 players. We play with 7 or 8 players, sometimes 9! I find it difficult to design encounters for the players that are not total pushovers, and yet don't completely annihilate the party.
I came up with a complex system, by trying to reverse engineer the CR table on page 49 of the DMG. It seems to work well so far, though the players tend to level after about 5 or 6 encounters. Which is fine with us, since we're all power gamers. :)
I'm curious if anyone else has a system for large parties, or if anyone else even bothers with large parties.
-Geoff
I run a game with 6 players. Generally, what I do is up the EL by one per extra PC above four. So, if I have 6 11th level PCs in the party, they can take on an EL 13 encounter. Having a party larger than 4 makes it easier to play with the range of ELs or CRs because of the added "protection" the extra PCs provide to the group. I haven't had a balance issue with it yet, and the players seem to find most of the encounters challenging enough.
Hope that helps.
Edgewood
I mostly agree with Edgewood, but watch out for critters that deal alot of damage quickly. If the group is unable to regroup (...eh) the character in front usually goes down. Last game session my group of 11 6th and 7th level characters was ambushed a EL11 Cult of the Dragon party, and we almost lost a couple of characters.
Another thing I have noticed while running a large party is that it becomes more difficult for the players to keep a tight formation. With a smaller party it is easier to keep the fighters in front and the mages in the back. With a larger party facing multiple opponents the enemies slip through more often. In the beforementioned fight one of the mages found himself facing a Large Fire Elemental. He went down in a single round.
BTW, see if you can find Sean Reynolds brillint article on larger parties.
Hope this helps
I recalculate the party's effective level. Basicly, if 2 CR6 creatures are an EL8, than 8 6th level pcs are a party level 8. Dungeon even did an adventure a couple years ago set in Dragonlance where the PCs run into Lord Soth in the past before he became evil (some kinda time travel or something). Anyways the point being the adventure was stated as being designed for 4 3rd level players or 8 5th level PCs.
It is about the same thing to up the party level as it is to up the EL but to me it's quicker and more simple to recalculate the party level than to recalculate EVERY encounter.
It is about the same thing to up the party level as it is to up the EL but to me it's quicker and more simple to recalculate the party level than to recalculate EVERY encounter.
I agree, you achieve exactly the same thing with much less work. What you'll have to remember when recalculating an encounter is that you'll also have to recalculate the treasure level for that encounter.
I just started Adventure Path with a party with 6 players. By not recalculating the encounter level they will have it a bit easier now in the beginning, but since they also receive less experience over time they will end up at the correct level for each adventure.
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I finally settled on adding more low level bad guys, not increasing CR's of existing ones. For instance, in Strike of Shatterhorn, I added two more wasp riders in the ruins, and planned on adding two more medusa's to that encounter, but the party size fluxuated due to real life. I added two Hill Giant Wereboars to the first encounter with the sorcerer.
Low level grunts adds some XP, and some treasure, without making big bad guys even badder.
My party size has fluctuated due to real life throughout the campaign. But the smallest the party has ever gotten is 6. As of right now, the party consists of the following:
1.) Male Dwarf Fighter 18
2.) Female Human Monk 7/Initiate of Phistis Sophia 10/Initiate of the Draconic Mysteries1 (plus the Smoking Eye Template)
(Note: Of the original party, only these first two remain)
3.) Male Half-Elf Fighter/Evoker/Eldrich Knight/Planeshifter
4.) Male Human Cleric (Pelor)/Kensai
5.) Male Dwarf Psion/Pyrokineticist (this character took a leave of absence after "Zenith Trajectory" and returned just before "Lords of Oblivion"
6.) Male Hound Archon/Paladin/Vassal of Bahamut (long story)
7.) Male Shadowswyft Rogue/Temple Raider of Olidammara
8.) Male Neraph Ranger
In "Strike on Shatterhorn" the party's rogue was killed by the Hill Giant outside, and then the other wizard was "soul napped" by Embril. The Neraph has yet to join the party, and they have just completed Shatterhorn. The new rogue just happened to step out of the Plane of Shadow, right into the Archon. So that is how things stand....and Now I am about to toss them onto Carceri--forcefully if necessary.
I too have had difficulties with large parties. I have simply added more characters, rather than the same ones with more levels. Minions are great fodder, and waste some of the most powerful spells of the party when they dont realize there are bigger and badder foes ahead...
I am curious if anyone has any ideas that I could throw at these guys? I'm always looking for more ideas to make them quake in fear.
BTW, see if you can find Sean Reynolds brillint article on larger parties.Hope this helps
Hey Snotlord (or anybody else, for that matter),
Any idea what issue of Dragon or Dungeon Sean's article appears in? I did a search of the site using "Sean Reynolds" as a keyword, but the article in question doesn't seem to have popped up...
Thanks for your help!
Here it it:
http://www.seankreynolds.com/rpgfiles/misc/handlinglargeparties.html
Any idea what issue of Dragon or Dungeon Sean's article appears in? I did a search of the site using "Sean Reynolds" as a keyword, but the article in question doesn't seem to have popped up...
Here it it:
http://www.seankreynolds.com/rpgfiles/misc/handlinglargeparties.html
Any idea what issue of Dragon or Dungeon Sean's article appears in? I did a search of the site using "Sean Reynolds" as a keyword, but the article in question doesn't seem to have popped up...
Thanks for the link, Snotlord! Very useful indeed... You definitely are the coolest booger I've ever dealt with... :-)