Size bonus for swarms

Does a swarm get the size bonus of the individual creatures for things like Stealth, even though collectively they take up a larger area?

For instance, does a swarm of Tiny creatures get a +8 bonus to Stealth?

Thanks,

Mead

Does a swarm get the size bonus of the individual creatures for things like Stealth, even though collectively they take up a larger area?

For instance, does a swarm of Tiny creatures get a +8 bonus to Stealth?

Thanks,

Mead

It'd get the size bonus from its individual components. So in the case of a Tiny swarm, yes, +8 to Stealth.

A swarm of crawling bugs might be difficult to see in any sort of underbrushes, but it sure makes noise. A swarm of flying creatures make noise too (they can't stop moving, even if the swarm is immobile), and the sheer number of them is enough to block some light in that 5x5 square - as in "as much as the next person". I'd say that, no, they don't get the Hide bonus. Except perhaps if the swarm splits and each creature in it is able to hide. Or if you with to identify a particular insect amongst the crowd - although in this last case, the swarm itself should give a bonus... the number of creatures?

Besides, in the Bestiary, swarms are defined as whole creature with special properties, and I haven't seen a bonus on Stealth.

Swarms, being mindless vermin, generally have no skill ranks and thus no skill bonuses listed. They can still make skill checks, though... and when one makes a Stealth check that check is modified by its size and Dex mod as normal.

Well, the only swarm with a Stealth skill listed is the Leech Swarm.
It gives a Stealth bonus of +1. This makes no sense since its dex bonus is +4. So, it should be 4 (dex only) or 16 (dex and size).

Well, the only swarm with a Stealth skill listed is the Leech Swarm.

It gives a Stealth bonus of +1. This makes no sense since its dex bonus is +4. So, it should be 4 (dex only) or 16 (dex and size).

That is indeed an error, and one that should be corrected in a future printing. It should be:

Stealth +16 (+4 Dex, +12 size) with +24 in swamps.

meadmaster wrote:

Well, the only swarm with a Stealth skill listed is the Leech Swarm.

It gives a Stealth bonus of +1. This makes no sense since its dex bonus is +4. So, it should be 4 (dex only) or 16 (dex and size).

That is indeed an error, and one that should be corrected in a future printing. It should be:

Stealth +16 (+4 Dex, +12 size) with +24 in swamps.

Thanks James,

On another note, I've found several other inconsistancies in the
Bestiary skills, and I've collected them in a word file. Would you like a copy.

Mead

There are currently a couple of running threads regarding errors found in the Bestiary; they are 'unofficial' in the sense that they were started by fans, but Paizo - especially James Jacobs - has come more than once to answer to our questions.

Here and here

If you want to share your informations on that threads (either of them would be fine) it would be of great help.