Cha Casting Magus?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

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Hello all. I remember seeing some talk on the forums at some point that we're expecting a Cha based Magus archetype to be released by Paizo soon.

Has anyone heard of this? Have any more information?

Or have I gone insane.


I don't recall hearing about a Paizo release on the subject, but there is a third party archetype for it, though I find it a little dubious. You still use Int even though you spontaneously cast (know spells as a Bard, but from Magus list), and instead of knowledge pool you essentially get an entire sorcerer bloodline.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber

Super Genius beat them to it. It's called the Cabalist, and is in Ultimate Options: New Magus Arcana, which, despite its name, has more than just new arcana.

It's also up on d20pfsrd.com.

And I'd tend to agree with chaoseffect, it's a bit overpowered for what all it gains. Some questions about which abilities work of Cha or Int, some superfluous abilities from the Magus class remaining unchanged for the archetype, etc.

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16

Thanks, but I really am looking for Paizo official, I'm super wary of 3rd party content.

The context I remember hearing this in was in an ARG discussion thread, where someone pointed out that the Suli have a Magus archetype, but have an Int penalty. Then I think one (or maybe a few) people said that Paizo had a Cha Magus in the works.


I feel the same way about 3rd party, but you just have to take a look at it and judge it for yourself before allowing it. That said, if you aren't using the magus for an "official" game, then you could easily homebrew one. For my group we just use the bard table for spells known (Bard and Magus have the exact same spell progression so which table you look at for spells per day doesn't matter) and replace Knowledge pool with a fitting Bloodline Arcana.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber

Well, as to 3rd=party phobia, let's face it. Not everything Paizo is instantly 100% reliable and unquestionable. Two words: Synthesist. Summoner.

The Cabalist is a good base to start from, though.

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16

That's true, but 3rd party has a lot of horrible stuff, and once you start using it, it digs its claws into you as it perches on your back, and whispers promises in your ear.


If I recall, one of Epic Meepo's archetypes was a charisma magus. Link to them on the SRD here:
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/extras/community-creations/epic-meepo-presents/arch etypes-by-epic-meepo


Kvantum wrote:
Not everything Paizo is instantly 100% reliable and unquestionable. Two words: Synthesist. Summoner.

Are you talking about how badly worded it is? Because it is weaker than a standard summoner (action economy, ho!).

Not that I disagree when Paizo kept Planar Binding completely intact and nerfed Improved X, Synthesist Summoner is just a bad example.


Petty Alchemy wrote:
That's true, but 3rd party has a lot of horrible stuff, and once you start using it, it digs its claws into you as it perches on your back, and whispers promises in your ear.

Actually many of the thrid party publishers that write for Paizo do some really quality work and it is becoming much more rare to see substandard work. Your view is pretty inaccurate of the current states of 3pp. Plus many of these writers work on official Paizo work. Lke Owen Stephens of SGG or Greg A Vaughn of Frog God Games.


Petty Alchemy wrote:

Hello all. I remember seeing some talk on the forums at some point that we're expecting a Cha based Magus archetype to be released by Paizo soon.

Has anyone heard of this? Have any more information?

Or have I gone insane.

Well, there was the archetype I submitted in Wayfinder #7 (free!), but it isn't official for PFS play.


Perhaps it's only me but most of the time when I look at 3rd party stuff on the d20pfsrd I just shake my head and keep on not using it.

There are some nice pieces of work but all in all it is a can of worms I'll rather keep closed.

For example there is a feat that increases healing effects and does that depending on your level, not on the strength of the effect.
That way it more than doubles some effects healing power which I think is very broken. More so as it always applies.

Sure sneak attack can deal more damage that the attack which triggered it but doesn't apply all the time and it is a class ability and not a feat.


Seems unfair to lump all third party material together, considering it's not made by a group called "third party" but instead is an effort from many different people and sources. Atleast give it the benefit of the doubt by looking at it before just barring it because it's not Paizo.


My point and that of a lot of GMs I know is:
If I start allowing anything 3pp, then I have to look over and evaluate every single piece of 3pp material availiable, of which I know that a lot is much too strong to allow.
So it is the easier way to just not use any of it.

Doing so barrs discussions with players over "why did you allow that 3pp feat but not the one I want?"

And I'd rather be unfair to 3pp authors (who, as I don't use their stuff, don't matter for me) than being unfair (if only subjective) to my players for which I should care.

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16

Odraude wrote:
Petty Alchemy wrote:
That's true, but 3rd party has a lot of horrible stuff, and once you start using it, it digs its claws into you as it perches on your back, and whispers promises in your ear.
Actually many of the thrid party publishers that write for Paizo do some really quality work and it is becoming much more rare to see substandard work. Your view is pretty inaccurate of the current states of 3pp. Plus many of these writers work on official Paizo work. Lke Owen Stephens of SGG or Greg A Vaughn of Frog God Games.

I disagree, a lot of 3rd party items are things that I can't imagine being published by Paizo. Here's a short list of things I found from SGG, one of the publishers you've recommended.

The List:

Avoid the Arcane
Deflect Spells (also: extraordinary natural weapons? What does that have to do with spells)
Headbutt

However, this isn't the topic to debate the state of 3rd party publishers. I'm not even that interested in explaining it further, but if you're very interested, start a new topic or PM me.

Ambrosia Salad, that is most likely the archetype I heard of, I probably just thought that Wayfinder was Paizo made. I'll check it out though, thank you.


I could see Avoid the Arcane and Deflect Spells being published as high level feats, but I agree with you on those being way too much for the prereqs. As for Headbutt, I really don't see an issue.

Silver Crusade

These feats seem pretty awesome actually.

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16

Sorry, I meant this feat, not Headbutt. Similar ideas by different 3rd parties, I got them mixed up.

Silver Crusade

To be fair, this feat has a prerequisite that may be emulated simply by using Paizo's ARG which just came out, and races with natural attacks (or human with the right heritage feat).

3PP is useful when you want to play a specific concept not covered by the rules yet. You don't have to allow 3PP in your game and deal with saying no to players ; on the contrary, you may suggest a 3PP alternative you know about and trust to a player, saying no to anything else that hasn't be reviewed (as you would for official content you don't know about, or at least I hope you don't take anything Paizo produces as perfect without checking it first). I've often seen SGG's and Rite's books cited by DMs as editors whose supplements are automatically green-lighted, the same way they do for Paizo. 3.5 dark days of 3PP creep are basically over.

We began a campaign in our group with a strict "core rulebook only" rule.
Today, we use all official, some 3PP, and even homebrew, as long as it cannot be emulated with official rules, it is balanced, and the DM can review it beforehand. Heck, we'll even begin a new 1st level campaign who will feature characters using a lot of various sources, including my own archetypes, and we are looking forward to it (especially the guy who never played a 1st character before !).

If you need a balanced alternative for the magus, I would suggest a feat you take at first level which changes your spellcasting/arcane pool stat to Charisma, and an arcana to add one enchantment spell from the bard spell list to your own.

Liberty's Edge

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Petty Alchemy wrote:

Hello all. I remember seeing some talk on the forums at some point that we're expecting a Cha based Magus archetype to be released by Paizo soon.

Has anyone heard of this? Have any more information?

Or have I gone insane.

I would also urge you to re-think your stance on Third Party Publishers, particularly the most popular ones that do Pathfinder stuff. As others have pointed out, many such products are written by the very same people that freelance for Paizo and most material is EVERY bit as good as what Paizo puts out.

Read the reviews and see what people say about a 3PP product before making your decision ...

And speaking of 3PP products ... :)

I would put forth the Vanguard by Super Genius Games. It is a spontaneous CHA based fighter/magic user hybrid class very much in the spirit of the Magus (but which, interestingly enough, came out a number of months before the Magus)

I think it is well worth you time to check the class out :)

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16

Notable about that feat is that it gives you a 7d4 natural attack at 3d4 cost. Vital Strike can bump that up to 14d4. The mechanics are completely silly here.

Paizo of course isn't perfect (I think the Sound Striker bard is poorly made), but it's more or less in line with itself. And when they release new content, they try to consider how it will interact with the stuff they made before. 3rd party stuff gets no consideration from Paizo here.

Basically, 3rd party is homebrew. If I want homebrew, I'll make it myself, or I'll ask the DM how he'd handle what I want.

Marc: I'd check out the Vanguard, but I wouldn't pay money for that privilege.

Silver Crusade

*Captain D20PFSRD is coming*

"There you go, citizen ! Have a good day !"

(All DMs have not the system mastery necessary to write balanced rules, even within homebrew realm.
That's why the people using, searching for, or greenlighting 3PP in their games usually are the DMs, not the players themselves.)

Super Genius Games

Hey Petty,

PM me your email address and I'll send you a copy of the Vanguard for free, plus any other Super Genius PDF you might be interested in. :)

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16

Very kind of you, Mr. Savage. I checked out the SRD link posted by Maxximilius though, so there's no need. But I do appreciate the sentiment.

Super Genius Games

Well, if there's anything else you're remotely interested in, let me know.

And it's Hyrum. My dad is Mr. Savage. ;)

Dark Archive

Mr. Savage sounds so cool. Is your dad a superhero? :)


Petty Alchemy wrote:
That's true, but 3rd party has a lot of horrible stuff, and once you start using it, it digs its claws into you as it perches on your back, and whispers promises in your ear.

Yes but Owen Stephens from Super Genius Games write Official Pathfinder stuff...and the Product from Super Genius Games is top notch. Too many people seem to forget that at one time Paizo was a 3rd Party Publisher.

Liberty's Edge

Petty Alchemy wrote:
Very kind of you, Mr. Savage. I checked out the SRD link posted by Maxximilius though, so there's no need. But I do appreciate the sentiment.

Just a quick FYI - that link still goes to the old version - it does not reflect the new, updated version of the Vanguard. If you still are interested in the complementary PDF Hyrum mentioned (he really is a very cool dude!) it would be the new, updated version of the class that he would be sending.

Just wanted to make sure that was clear:)

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