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"Shield Brace (Combat, Shield Mastery)
Source Armor Master's Handbook pg. 19
You’ve mastered the art of balancing a polearm’s weight against a shield’s stability.
Prerequisites: Shield Focus; base attack bonus +3 or fighter level 1st; proficiency with light shields, heavy shields, or tower shields.
Benefit: You can use a two-handed weapon sized appropriately for you from the polearm or spears weapon group while also using a light, heavy, or tower shield with which you are proficient. The shield’s armor check penalty (if any) applies to attacks made with the weapon"
Does this allow one to wield a 2 handed weapon and a shield, and still garner the AC bonus? it is not clear. I have 2 players arguing in a game as in no way does it specifically say that he gets the bonus to his AC, it was assumed that if a player uses an arm for attack with which the shield is strapped to, he loses the AC that shield provides for the round in which the attack was made. Does this still hold true with Shield Brace and a No-dachi?
Player A - Believes it lets him ignores the rule in which he can use a shield with a 2 handed weapon, and still get the AC bonus when attacking for the round.
Player B - Believes that if he attacks, he loses the AC that shield provides for till the start of his next turn, or at least the remainder of the round.
Pretty sure you'd get the AC bonus while attacking. Not sure off hand why on earth you'd take this feat otherwise. Higher flatfooted/total defense/etc AC?
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There is no language to say you lose your shield bonus to AC in the feat. And there are no general rules to say you lose your shield bonus to AC - the rules say you only lose the AC bonus if you use the shield to attack.
You keep your shield bonus to AC.
No-Dachi is a polearm so is a valid weapon to use with this feat.
Player B - Believes that if he attacks, he loses the AC that shield provides for till the start of his next turn, or at least the remainder of the round.
Player B is wrong. the whole point of the feat is to use a shield and a polearm/spear at the same time.
No-Dachi: ANYTHING from the polearm or spears group works, so yes. It even works with a Lantern staff, Butchering axe or a Spiked chain if you add the Versatile design weapon mod.
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Player B - Believes that if he attacks, he loses the AC that shield provides for till the start of his next turn, or at least the remainder of the round.Player B is wrong. the whole point of the feat is to use a shield and a polearm/spear at the same time.
No-Dachi: ANYTHING from the polearm or spears group works, so yes. It even works with a Lantern staff, Butchering axe or a Spiked chain if you add the Versatile design weapon mod.
I believe the confusion isn't the fact that he cant use the shield, it was more a holdover that somehow when he attacked that he loses the shield bonus to AC.
The wording indicates that you get the shield AC and there are no drawbacks.
In PFS they nerfed it and cause the two handed weapon to be treated as a one handed weapon.
but in both you always keep the shield ac if you attack.
I believe the confusion isn't the fact that he cant use the shield, it was more a holdover that somehow when he attacked that he loses the shield bonus to AC.
I understand. Myself, I'd say losing AC when using your weapon isn't using both shield and weapon at the same time. It's using your shield OR your weapon in a turn, not both at once. The feat lets you use both at once, hence my answer.
Why would you take this feat? You could just use a tiny longspear and get all of its effects.
As a 1 handed weapon with an additional -2 VS 2 handed [1.5 str damage + power attack (-1=+3) damage] at full bonuses...
Seems clear to me why.
Player A - Believes it lets him ignores the rule in which he can use a shield with a 2 handed weapon, and still get the AC bonus when attacking for the round.
Player B - Believes that if he attacks, he loses the AC that shield provides for till the start of his next turn, or at least the remainder of the round.
as far as i can tell, if you have a shield gripped right(each with it's own method, buckler strapped to arm, tower shield held etc) you gain the shield ac bonus -uness you somehow do something(or have something done to you) that make you lose the shield ac. there is no real 'use shield' action that is opposed to just holding it\carring it etc.
if you needed an action to use the shiled, the same way you use a weapon say, then you would lose shield ac bonus when flat footed.the bonus you gain from a shield is passive, same as from armor or natural armor. and unless you do something to lose it (shield bashing without improved shield bash feat, or use the hand that the buckler is strapped on etc) you keep the shield bonus.
now the feat seem to impplay that you can use both a 2 handed weapon (spear or polearm) and a shield together. if you were ment to lose the shield ac bonus it should have said so right there. like when you shield bash or when you use a buckler's hand. since it doesn't say, then you don't. (and as far as i can tell it's the main reason the feat exist -to allow 2 handed weapon attack along with keeping the shield bonus, like this feat)
it seem to be a mixup of general and specific rules.
general rule - having a shield in hand grant shield ac bonus.
general rule - non buckler shield take a hand so one can't use a 2 handed weapon with them (unless he have 3+ hands)
specific rule - some actions such as shield bash or using a buckler's hand make you lose the shied ac bonus (again unless you have the proper feats like improved shield bash or Unhindering Shield. and then you got specific rule of specific rule).
the feat specific rules - with it you can use a specific group of weapons along with a non buckler shield.
what player B tries to do is generalize a specific rule out of it's specific case. and to do that he need some kind of suport in the rules - some basic general rule that state that using a shield hand make one lose the ac it gives. but all he has are specific rules in specific cases that don't connect to this one. the shield is not a buckler nor is shield bashing present (the said feat is for tower shield as well and one can't shield bash with tower shields)
without it the feat should state you lose the ac bonus for it to happen.
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Player A asked the following....
""while were at it. i also wonder how do you work with the brace weapon ability.
iv been reading this thread :
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qr27?Readying-brace-weapons-against-a-chargewh at#1
trying to figure if i need to specificly state im reading my brace weapon for a charge atack.(and so if they dont charge i dont evn get to ttack them) or if i can just say that im reading to attack anyone aproching, and in case his charging the brace comes into action and deal double damage.
some claim that there is no specific action called seting a brace. some aruge. im lost""
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Player A asked the following....
""while were at it. i also wonder how do you work with the brace weapon ability.
iv been reading this thread :
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qr27?Readying-brace-weapons-against-a-chargewh at#1
trying to figure if i need to specificly state im reading my brace weapon for a charge atack.(and so if they dont charge i dont evn get to ttack them) or if i can just say that im reading to attack anyone aproching, and in case his charging the brace comes into action and deal double damage.some claim that there is no specific action called seting a brace. some aruge. im lost""
"Brace: If you use a readied action to set a brace weapon against a charge, you deal double damage on a successful hit against a charging character (see Combat)."
The action is the readied action. Since it's vs a charge, that your readied action: attacking a charging foe. Talk with your DM if he'll allow general 'attack someone coming close' but I'd only allow a readied brace to attack a charging unit.
So you spend a standard action and brace your weapon: Next charging person gets an attack from you.
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Player A asked the following....
""while were at it. i also wonder how do you work with the brace weapon ability.
iv been reading this thread :
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qr27?Readying-brace-weapons-against-a-chargewh at#1
trying to figure if i need to specificly state im reading my brace weapon for a charge atack.(and so if they dont charge i dont evn get to ttack them) or if i can just say that im reading to attack anyone aproching, and in case his charging the brace comes into action and deal double damage.some claim that there is no specific action called seting a brace. some aruge. im lost""
"Brace: If you use a readied action to set a brace weapon against a charge, you deal double damage on a successful hit against a charging character (see Combat)."
The action is the readied action. Since it's vs a charge, that your readied action: attacking a charging foe. Talk with your DM if he'll allow general 'attack someone coming close' but I'd only allow a readied brace to attack a charging unit.
So you spend a standard action and brace your weapon: Next charging person gets an attack from you.
Yeah that seems understandable now. As I am the DM, I am keeping it only for a Charge and nothing else otherwise I can see that getting out of hand.
Though I have to wonder, why a two handed user would NOT take Shield Brace, it literally almost seems too good. All the positives of being a two handed user with literally all the positives of being a sword and board user.
I could be looking at this wrong though.
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Most times, two handers are in it for damage, so other feats come first. Power attack, Furious Focus, ect.
Shield Brace is a solid pick for when you have enough feats. It requires Shield Focus, so that's a feat you have to take BEFORE you can use a shield, so a useless feat when picked up [unless you get multiple feats at a time].
Also remember, it's initially limited to spears/polearms. No earthbreakrs/butchering axes/greatswords/ect without modifying the weapons so thats cash and another feat to get it to work with those.