Ninja archetypes

Are there any of these forthcoming? Are rogue archetypes legal for ninjas in PFS? Same question goes for the samurai. I'd ask about the anti-paladin, but I know they are not legal at all.

Ninja is a rogue archetype. you cant have an archetype within an archetype.

It's not an archetype, it's an alternate version of the rogue base class.

Ninja is Rogue. Samurai is Cavalier.

You can take any Rogue archetype that does not change or alter an ability already changed or altered by the Ninja archetype.(Basically, that's all Ninja and Samurai are)

Might be hard to find an archetype that does that though.

The Bandit, Burglar, Sanctified Rogue, Scout, and Trapsmith archetypes work with the ninja.

Ninja is a rogue archetype. you cant have an archetype within an archetype.

Not true. You can legally combine any number of archetypes so long as their replacement abilities don't overlap.

Anyone recall what can be combined with Samurai?

Actually Sword Saint is a Samurai archetype.

Only the Sword Saint. The Cavalier is a more complex class than rogue. Cavalier archetypes tend to change more than one ability making them hard for compatability with the samurai since the samurai and cavalier only have the mount, banner, bonus feats, challenge, and order abilities in common.

For PFS, the sword saint is your best bet. Though the archetype's bonus is worthless during levels 6-9, you're only losing the mount ability (which is relatively useless in PFS).

Well, other than that.

There are 6 rogue archs that go with Ninja:

Bandit
Burglar
Sanctified Rogue
Scout
Trapsmith
Cat Burglar (Catfolk)

Those 6 replace only Uncanny Dodge and/or Impr. Uncanny Dodge which Ninja maintains from the Rogue class. All other Rogue archetypes replace abilities that Ninja doesn't possess.

It would be interesting to see an archetype that replaces a thing or two that only the ninja gets, thus making a true "ninja archetype." Poison use is one feature I could live without, as it seems to be nearly useless during actual play.

In PFS, only the ones that replace Uncanny Dodge / Imp. UD will work.

In a home game...I'd ask the DM if you can just lose Poison Use and No Trace for an archetype as if they were Trapfinding and Trapsense. They're about equal power-wise, it's a fair trade. And alot of rogue archetypes seem like they'd fit ninja just as well if not better thematically.

Mystic: Yeah, I hate using poison, and No Trace...well, it's as worthless as trapsense is...

I would love to lose poison use for something use full. No trace and light steps are cool, but I could live without them as well.

Maybe a Ki Mage archetypes that lets you use arcane spells fueled by ki.

Or we could fully flesh out the idea of an unarmed ninja that doesn't have to multiclass into either monk or fighter (to get the incredibly high number of feats required for a TWF unarmed build). Clearly none of the designers have been watching enough Naruto. ;)

Or we could fully flesh out the idea of an unarmed ninja that doesn't have to multiclass into either monk or fighter (to get the incredibly high number of feats required for a TWF unarmed build). Clearly none of the designers have been watching enough Naruto. ;)

Small price to pay imo for getting invisibility on demand, which essentially guarantees sneak attack damage. Plus, they get to do some cool stuff with their unarmed strikes like inflict ability damage.

And come one, Naruto Ninja have to be Sorcerers or some other caster class with all the spell like abilities they throw out there.

SGG (Super Genius Games for those of you who don't know) has the Ultimate Options: Power of the Ninja PDF. Which has 4 ninja archetypes.

Naruto characters are gestalt ninja/sorcerers.

Oh its for PFS...sorry guess the SGG stuff is out.

Not that it is common, but I have had ninjas in a group use drugs as poison we have found.

The issue with PFS is that the DCs on the allowed poisons are so weak they are not worth using.

Naruto characters are gestalt ninja/sorcerers.

This... Makes all the sense.

Not that it is common, but I have had ninjas in a group use drugs as poison we have found.

The issue with PFS is that the DCs on the allowed poisons are so weak they are not worth using.

Don't the DC's go up every application? Cause after a few hits poisons will do their work. Or did they change that in PFS play?

You would need to reapply every hit. So by the time you got it to a decent DC it should be dead.

Also, paizo really needs to errata the swift posioner rogue trick. Currently it only lets you poison as a move action. It seems odd to me that a vanilla alchemist is better at using poisons than a poisoner rogue...

Also, paizo really needs to errata the swift posioner rogue trick. Currently it only lets you poison as a move action. It seems odd to me that a vanilla alchemist is better at using poisons than a poisoner rogue...

Not really.

There is the cavern sniper Drow archetype that poisons as a swift action. They're clearly the best poisioners lol.

Swift poison makes the most sense and utility for a sub-par combat application. By the time you can afford any decent poisons, everyone and their brother could easily make the save by that point. Except maybe the wizard that tanked his con... But he was just asking for it... If nothing else took him out by then, that is.

I was working on a Shinobi Ninja Archetype.
To go historically and make a true ninja.
It ended up looking like a Martial Artist with Sneak Attack and a few neat proficiencies.

Not really.

The Alchemist is a master of alchemical item, and Craft:Alchemy is what is required to craft poison.

To craft it, not use it. The alchemist is a strange hybrid class of beast morph and bomb thrower. Yet they are better than an archetype specifically called "Poisoner" i.e. The archetype is completely designed to use poisons.

In home games I let swift poison turn poisoning into a swift action and the poisoner, instead of gaining a +1 bonus (scaling) on saves vs. poison increases the DC of poisons he applies by 1 (scaling).

In home games I let swift poison turn poisoning into a swift action and the poisoner, instead of gaining a +1 bonus (scaling) on saves vs. poison increases the DC of poisons he applies by 1 (scaling).

And how does that work out?

And how does that work out?

Well, granted the party did not have an alchemist, the poisoner enjoyed himself because though he let other characters use his poisons, he would always be better with them. It's balanced by the fact the poisoner is horribly unerpowered to begin with. Now the poisoner does something unique with poison and gets rid of their static DC (so they can still be effective at later levels).

Now the poisoner does something unique with poison and gets rid of their static DC (so they can still be effective at later levels).

I meant mechanically. Do the changes to the poisoning rules make him more deadly, or does it just make it feel better for the PC? Had it effected his combat performance at all?

I meant mechanically. Do the changes to the poisoning rules make him more deadly, or does it just make it feel better for the PC? Had it effected his combat performance at all?

Under the normal rules, he would only get a standard action and poison his weapon. With a swift action poison, he can make a full attack with his first strike poisoned or poison, move, attack. It makes using poison in combat a viable option.

I know you mentioned it has to be PFS legal but we have a "Student of the Sword" archetype for samurai in our Heroes of the East II book.