warlok9's page

I think the thing people forget about the Dervish Magus build is that; on an equal point buy, it is far weaker than a Strength build at levels 1 and 2. That can't even be argued. At level 3 there is some leveling off, but arguably the strength build is deadlier even through level 10.

The Magus is a melee class. After years of playing this game, if you go melee class, your best defense is a strong offense. I'll gladly sacrifice a few points of AC to do double the amount of damage.

After completing further research, it has become evident that going with the magus/dervish dance/ scimitar is not the slam dunk it used to be.

A couple things came to light recently as I am preparing to release my Magus upon the world:

1. Weapon Finesse & the Scimitar. Nope. Contrary to what everyone assumes, you DO NOT get to use weapon finesse with your scimitar while you are waiting for 3rd level when you can take Dervish Dance. You can only use weapon finesse with the weapons listed on the feat. Just because weapon finesse is a prerequisite for dervish dance, does not grant you the right to use your dex for melee attacks with the Scimitar. Sort of a big deal. You'll have to use a rapier or something until 3rd level.

2. You can NOT attack two-handed with Weapon Finesse or Dervish Dance. EVER. This is a big strike against this build for me. You will be using your Spellstrike ability as much as or more than your spell combat ability. With a strength build Magus you can deliver your spellstrike two-handed! For example: Shocking grasp delivered as a two handed, Critical Katana attack (2nd level, 18 strength, arcane pool active) = 2d8+14 + 4D6. With a dervish scimitar, one-handed (even though not even possible, see #1 above) Spellstrike (2nd level, 18 dex, arcane pool active) = 2d6+2 + 4D6. CLEARLY at first and second level the dervish build is gimped and for good reason.

It it true, as a Magus you could use any martial weapon to deliver two-handed attacks, but with no or low strength bonus, and no attack bonus from strength or dex, what is the point? And let's not even discuss when the strength build Magus rolls a crit using two-handed power attack with spellstrike. Sick damage. Frickin massive damage at 5th level.

I'm going to try a Half Elf strength build Magus centered around the Katana as my main weapon. You can attain the exotic weapon feat at first level legally as a half-elf with the ancestral arms trait(can use one or two handed, higher damage dice than scimitar) If I wasn't the sole spellcaster in our party, I'd probably go for the Kensai arch class which is pretty beast.

On a side note, Dervish Dance feels kind of cheap anyways unless you are playing that campaign setting it released with. I don't remember it's origins. Heck, you can't even pull up the feat on the PRD at all and that should tell you something.

Thanks for the enlightenment. I think that puts the final nail in the coffin for the Dervish Magus build for me. Just a completely linear build with no choices to make until after 5th level, possibly 7th. I hate builds like that. Every dervish magus is going to be exactly the same... same race, same feats, same skills, same weapons.

For level 1 and 2 characters, I think the trade-off of having a slightly higher AC for the dervish build does not make up for the non existent damage bonuses, low hit points, and no useful 1st level feat.

I think the dervish magus is severely gimped at 1st and 2nd level and would be akin to playing a partially disabled wizard for 2 whole levels. I hate hate hate hate HATE playing a gimpy character for one level let alone 2 levels. Thats about 6 game sessions I'll be next to useless to the party. Playing a first level character should be fun, not an exercise in staying alive long enough to until you can unlock the thing that makes your character fun to play.

I built my magus several ways and fleshed out the levels through level 7. I just don't like the dervish build. It gives up way to much at levels 1-2 compared to a Strength build, not to mention you have more flexibility with feats with a strength build. Encumbrance is not an issue with the strength build either. Also, a strength build offers more flexibility with melee weapons, as the Magus can use all martial melee weapons with his strength bonus. Yes, you lose a bit of dex accuracy and ranged weaponry, but just don't dump your dex, keep it at a 14 or so and you'll be in good shape. Besides, once you are in medium armor, a higher dex isn't doing you any good. (mithril aside)

I was able to pull off a Half Elf Magus with an 18 Str, 12 Con, 14 Dex, and 16 Int on a 20 point buy just from dumping charisma (7)and a bit of wisdom (9). I also used the ancestral arms trait and picked up the Katana vs. Scimitar. Just a better weapon with same crit range.

Take toughness at 1st level and start with 14hp and light armor for an AC of 16. Not too terrible. And you can avoid most defensive casting situations early on by planning your Spell combat.

Cast/5ft step/Attack or Attack/5ft step/cast. If you fight someone with reach or someone has a ranged weapon equipped then sure, but most enemies are not going to do that at early levels. And at 2nd level you get Spellstrike so your damage gets nasty even without a crit.

At first level just color spray and hack your way to many kills. At second level switch your primary spell to Shocking grasp and then its: cast shocking grasp/5ft step/2 attacks with one adding the shock damage! (or 5ft step/cast shocking grasp/then following round 2 attacks)