On the Additional Resources Page, where it refers to "Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Seekers of Secrets
Everything in this book is legal for play with the following notes. Equipment: ioun stones use method 1 for resonance and never use method 2. Additionally, only normal ioun stones have resonance—inferior ioun stones never do. Advanced ioun stones are not legal for play. Prestige Class: Pathfinder Savants replace the item creation feat prerequisite with Spell Focus."
Is it actually talking about "Pathfinder Chronicles: Seekers of Secrets—A Guide to the Pathfinder Society (PFRPG)"?
Because I can't find a product named "Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Seekers of Secrets" If I search for this, the other comes up at the top of the list.
If you have an animal companion/familiar or else you are a spell caster summoning an ally or else using a magic item that summons an ally AND together you and your summoned or controlled ally/companion/familiar defeat an enemy creature, is that considered to be you defeating the creature "single-handedly", as if the companion/ally/familiar was a weapon in your hand?
I ask because of the description of the Ring of Elemental Command:
All four kinds of rings of elemental command are very powerful. Each appears to be nothing more than a lesser magic ring until fully activated (by meeting a special condition, such as
***single-handedly slaying an elemental of the appropriate type or exposure to a sacred material of the appropriate element)***,
but each has certain other powers as well as the following common properties.
so what exactly does immune to fire do? in the resist energy description it says, "Resist energy absorbs only damage. The subject could still suffer unfortunate side effects." What sort of side effects does resist energy make you immune to? For instance, in the case of Air/electricity (are those two different energies?) does protection keep you from being lifted up and dropped?
And after all that, I discover/realize that I will be playing a Sorcerer rather than a wizard, making all questions about spell books and all benefits related to spell books moot. Oh well.
Here is the answer that I was looking for, from a Stealth Playtest discussion on Sep 20, 2011, 11:48 AM:
Stephen Radney-MacFarland Paiso Designer wrote:
tjlatta wrote:
How about an explicit interaction with flanking?
When GMing, I've always ruled that you don't provide flank if you're invisible or stealthed because the flanking rules are predicated on the target being "threatened."
If I'm totally unaware of something's existence, it isn't going to be very threatening to me.
A creature threatens under certain circumstances (see page 180 of the Core Rulebook). It may not seem threatening to you, but that's not how threatened squares work in the rules. An invisible or hidden creature still threatens, because it could and might make and attack in a creature within those squares.
Is your question sufficiently answered, now, with fretgod's quote?
Now that I have clicked on Stephen Radney-MacFarland's link and I can see that he is a Paizo designer, I guess that does seem to settle the question.
Stephen Radney-MacFarland Paizo Designer wrote:
tjlatta wrote:
How about an explicit interaction with flanking?
When GMing, I've always ruled that you don't provide flank if you're invisible or stealthed because the flanking rules are predicated on the target being "threatened."
If I'm totally unaware of something's existence, it isn't going to be very threatening to me.
A creature threatens under certain circumstances (see page 180 of the Core Rulebook). It may not seem threatening to you, but that's not how threatened squares work in the rules. An invisible or hidden creature still threatens, because it could and might make and attack in a creature within those squares.
His reference to page 180 is what I have quoted above:
"Threatened Squares: You threaten all squares into which you can make a melee attack, even when it is not your turn. Generally, that means everything in all squares adjacent to your space (including diagonally). An enemy that takes certain actions while in a threatened square provokes an attack of opportunity from you. If you’re unarmed, you don’t normally threaten any squares and thus can’t make attacks of opportunity."
It's not Mike Brock's place to create rules, or even issue rules interpretations, unless they specifically affect the PFS campaign.
What you're looking for is a response from the Pathfinder Design Team (aka the PDT).
I am concerned with PFSOP, but I will be happy to get a response from a member of the PDt.
Hopefully the reason that there is a Rules blog is that members of the PDT periodically monitor and give their rulings on questions like this. Are they identified as such when they comment in the blogs?
When GMing, I've always ruled that you don't provide flank if you're invisible or stealthed because the flanking rules are predicated on the target being "threatened."
If I'm totally unaware of something's existence, it isn't going to be very threatening to me.
A creature threatens under certain circumstances (see page 180 of the Core Rulebook). It may not seem threatening to you, but that's not how threatened squares work in the rules. An invisible or hidden creature still threatens, because it could and might make and attack in a creature within those squares.
Invisibility has nothing to do with flanking. If you'd be flanking if you weren't invisible, you're flanking when you are invisible.
This is exactly what I am dealing with, and why my question is what it is - GMs who think flanking and threatening depend on the perception of the one under attack or even on the perception of one of the attackers (when the other is invisible). Perception is irrelevant, only the circumstances are relevant.
Pathfinder rules only allow what they say they allow, its a permissive system.
An animal has tricks. You command the animal to attack, it moves directly to the creature to attack. This is true whether you have animal archive or not. You can not tell your animal exactly where to move without using the other tricks and positioning yourself.
Does this mean the animal can't flank? No it just means it will only do so when a flanking positions is the most direct route to attacking a target. Can you make it get into a flanking position? If you have animal archive yes, there is a trick. If you don't then you would have to use the come and heel commands to move your animal to the appropriate position.
I run frequently in PFS and I will have the player tell me what order is given then I will move the animal companion to what I consider to be the most appropriate position, if the has suggestions, I will consider them, like yah he could do that but he doesn't like fire so I think he would go around the other way away from the fire elemental, would probably work.
This also applies to AoOs and avoiding them. An animal would probably travel straight to the target, regardless of AoOs, and not use the pathing potential used by players. I would allow acrobatics to avoid, since that instinctual but the distance rather than the animal would determine if at full or half speed.
My first adventure with my new Animal Companion - I pointed at the target with the command Attack. I moved the miniature rather than the GM, but I took the most direct route and his last step put him on a trap. He was rendered unconscious before his next move and the battle lasted long enough for the trap (with a continuous lightning effect) to kill it, since nobody could get to it to drag it off the trap. It was horrible, *sniff**sob*. I agree, whether it is the player or the GM, they need to move the creature in the most direct and sensible manner. It isn't intelligent enough to know what flanking and attacks of opportunity are, unless you train it in the new flank trick. And even then, it is still going to move in the way that you would expect it to move, based on animal intelligence, not in the way that you want it to move.
Well, if two creatures under the effects of Greater Invisibility are on opposite sides of their target, they get the +2 to-hit for flanking, so clearly awareness of the target is not important.
This is one of those cases where rules elements take precedent over in-character observations.
You had me all hopeful, but neither of the spell descriptions - Invisibility nor Greater Invisibility mention a flanking bonus.
Since it is not in the spell description, what is your reference for that statement please?
I am going to include a post from a blog on invisible flanking and my reaction to it.
seebs wrote:
Interesting question. RAW, obviously, any creature which would otherwise provide flanking continues to do so when invisible.
But it does seem that the defender's perceptions ought to be relevant to whether or not flanking occurs, since it's supposed to represent distraction or some such, and if you don't know someone's there, how can they be distracting to you? So, being invisible might not remove flanking, but if you hadn't been detected yet, it would seem odd for you to give flanking. Logically. Obviously, the rules ignore this and probably should.
This must be part of the problem - an assumption of what flanking means (distraction or some such).
Flanked ONLY means a disadvantage gained by having an enemy on opposite sides, both of which are impossible to defend against simultaneously, unless you have specific feats that let you do so, thus negating flanking.
Flanked is a passive state of a creature under attack, which is due to circumstance - that circumstance is defined as having melee attackers in threatening positions on opposite sides of you. Neither the definitions of flank or threaten (see attacks of opportunity) require awareness on anybody's part - they are states or conditions of circumstance. Obviously, it is in the interest of multiple attackers to try to deliberately create this disadvantaged circumstance for their enemy, but the state exists even if it is created accidentally and unknowingly (ie you are not aware of it).
The bonus is created by the disadvantaged circumstance, not any creatures awareness of it.
And, by the way, my interest is not in whether or not invisible creatures can flank, although answers to that question are informative, my interest is in whether awareness has anything at all to do with flanking.
Interesting question. RAW, obviously, any creature which would otherwise provide flanking continues to do so when invisible.
But it does seem that the defender's perceptions ought to be relevant to whether or not flanking occurs, since it's supposed to represent distraction or some such, and if you don't know someone's there, how can they be distracting to you? So, being invisible might not remove flanking, but if you hadn't been detected yet, it would seem odd for you to give flanking. Logically. Obviously, the rules ignore this and probably should.
This must be part of the problem - an assumption of what flanking means (distraction or some such).
Flanked ONLY means a disadvantage gained by having an enemy on opposite sides, both of which are impossible to defend against simultaneously, unless you have specific feats that let you do so, thus negating flanking.
Flanked is a passive state of a creature under attack, which is due to circumstance - that circumstance is defined as having melee attackers in threatening positions on opposite sides of you. Neither the definitions of flank or threaten (see attacks of opportunity) require awareness on anybody's part - they are states or conditions of circumstance. Obviously, it is in the interest of multiple attackers to try to deliberately create this disadvantaged circumstance for their enemy, but the state exists even if it is created accidentally and unknowingly (ie you are not aware of it).
The bonus is created by the disadvantaged circumstance, not any creatures awareness of it.
I have no doubt that it has been hashed out for years, but there are still people who believe that the result of this hashing out leans toward the awareness requirement, so clearly it hasn't been settled. I would love to see a decisive ruling by Mike Brock, at least for the purposes of Pathfinder Society Organized Play.
It is possible that this language is part of the confusion.
"Only a creature or character that threatens the defender can help an attacker get a flanking bonus."
I think some people are trying to think of flanking as a deliberate, cooperative activity on the part of the attackers (hence the focus on awareness), misinterpreting the use of the phrase "help an attacker".
But the rule seems clear that "flanked" is a passive state for the one being attacked that either does or does not exist, due to circumstances. Certainly it is in the interest of the attackers to try to create those circumstances deliberately, but the circumstantial state exists even when it is created accidentally and unknowingly, at least according to the definitions in the Rulebook.
Mark, I am only interested in the rule for PFSOP and I just posted this in the Rules Forum, once I finally found it. The reason I want to get Mike Brock's ruling is because I assume that it would be authoritative for PFSOP and not just some player's opinion. I am not sure that I understand the purpose of your post.
This was the response I got from Paz in that forum thread:
Paz wrote:
You would be better off asking in the rules forum rather than a PFS thread that's been dormant for nearly a year.
To answer your question, flanking has nothing to do with awareness. Maybe your GM is getting confused around the necessary situation for a sneak attack, or something similar.
In fact, the description of sneak attack in the CRB makes it very clear that flanking and awareness are two different things:
PRD wrote:
The rogue's attack deals extra damage anytime her target would be denied a Dexterity bonus to AC (whether the target actually has a Dexterity bonus or not), or when the rogue flanks her target.
If you could only flank when the target wasn't aware (and therefore denied their dex bonus) then the last part of that sentence wouldn't be needed.
I am moving this over from a blog begun from a post by Mike Brock on the topic of new Animal Companion Tricks in the Animal Archive, in particular the flank trick at the suggestion of Paz (thanks Paz).
Pirate Rob wrote:
"The problem with the Animal Archive is it does change what animals can do and creates a bunch of weird situations where a player who doesn't have it plays with a GM that doesn't have it and maybe their animal flanks maybe it doesn't (up to GM) but then that player plays with a GM that does have the book and then their companion never flanks."
This seems like as good a place as any to try to get clarification of something:
One of my GMs and many of the blog contributors that I have found while researching this seem to insist that flanking has something to do with the awareness of the creature being flanked or even the awareness of the creature doing the flanking.
According to the Core Rulebook:
"When making a melee attack, you get a +2 flanking bonus if your opponent is threatened by another enemy character or creature on its opposite border or opposite corner. When in doubt about whether two characters flank an opponent in the middle, trace an imaginary line between the two attackers’ centers. If the line passes through opposite borders of the opponent’s space (including corners of those borders), then the opponent is flanked. ...
Only a creature or character that threatens the defender can help an attacker get a flanking bonus."
Nothing in the description/definition of Flanking has anything to do with awareness, only with being threatened (which also has nothing to do with awareness).
The rules governing attacks of opportunity seem to provide the best definition of a square being threatened:
"Threatened Squares: You threaten all squares into which you can make a melee attack, even when it is not your turn. Generally, that means everything in all squares adjacent to your space (including diagonally). An enemy that takes certain actions while in a threatened square provokes an attack of opportunity from you. If you’re unarmed, you don’t normally threaten any squares and thus can’t make attacks of opportunity."
It seems to me that any creature that is in a square that is threatened on two opposite sides is flanked, and any enemy character or creature in one of those flanking positions that attacks the character or creature in the flanked square enjoys the flanking bonus as long as the ally in the opposing square actually threatens - isn't unarmed or casting or something making a melee attack impossible.
What can the awareness or lack of awareness of the flanked character or creature possibly have to do with its flanked condition (or status or whatever you choose to label it)?
That was posted last night.
I was realizing this morning that the same dispute seems to go on around whether or not one of the flankers is aware of the other, for instance due to invisibility.
It seems to me that, as the definitions of flanking and threatened are written, the only person who needs to be aware that a creature is flanked, for that creature to be flanked and for the flankers to get their flanking bonus, is the GM. This should be just as true for a PC that is flanked by one or more invisible enemies, that it absolutely does not know about as it is for an enemy creature that is flanked by one or more invisible PCs that the other PC shouldn't know about but does.
Come to think of it, if two PCs had reason to believe that there might be an invisible enemy in the space between them and as a result attacked that space, even though there is probably a miss chance, they should get a flanking bonus on their respective attacks because that square is threatened by both of them on opposite sides.
I asked this question in the blog that was begun by Mike Brock in his article "Animals and Their Tricks" Monday, March 11, 2013, because it first came up for me in the context of companions and flanking and that was the only thread I could find that was specifically dealing with this topic and was started by Mike Brock, the person I would like to get the answer from.
Perhaps I do need to take the question somewhere else. I asked it here because if first came up for me in the context of companions and flanking and this is the only thread that was specifically started on that topic by Mike Brock, the person I would like to get the answer from.
I was realizing this morning that the same dispute seems to go on around whether or not one of the flankers is aware of the other, for instance due to invisibility.
It seems to me that, as the definitions of flanking and threatened are written, the only person who needs to be aware that a creature is flanked, for that creature to be flanked and for the flankers to get their flanking bonus, is the GM. This should be just as true for a PC that is flanked by one or more invisible enemies, that it absolutely does not know about as it is for an enemy creature that is flanked by one or more invisible PCs that the other PC shouldn't know about but does.
The Animal Archive is weird in that id adjusts the rules that animal companions follow.
So something like the APG adds new options but adding icy doom glowing ball to the wizard spell list does not effect how wizards without the book cast fireball.
The problem with the Animal Archive is it does change what animals can do and creates a bunch of weird situations where a player who doesn't have it plays with a GM that doesn't have it and maybe their animal flanks maybe it doesn't (up to GM) but then that player plays with a GM that does have the book and then their companion never flanks.
This seems like as good a place as any to try to get clarification of something:
One of my GMs and many of the blog contributors seem to insist that flanking has something to do with the awareness of the creature being flanked.
According to the Core Rulebook:
"When making a melee attack, you get a +2 flanking bonus if your opponent is threatened by another enemy character or creature on its opposite border or opposite corner. When in doubt about whether two characters flank an opponent in the middle, trace an imaginary line between the two attackers’ centers. If the line passes through opposite borders of the opponent’s space (including corners of those borders), then the opponent is flanked.
Only a creature or character that threatens the defender can help an attacker get a flanking bonus."
Nothing in the description of flanking has anything to do with awareness, only with being threatened.
The rules governing attacks of opportunity seem to provide the best definition of a square being threatened:
"Threatened Squares: You threaten all squares into which you can make a melee attack, even when it is not your turn. Generally, that means everything in all squares adjacent to your space (including diagonally). An enemy that takes certain actions while in a threatened square provokes an attack of opportunity from you. If you’re unarmed, you don’t normally threaten any squares and thus can’t make attacks of opportunity."
It seems to me that any creature that is in a square that is threatened on two opposite sides is flanked, and any enemy character or creature in one of those flanking positions that attacks the character or creature in the flanked square enjoys the flanking bonus as long as the ally in the opposing square actually threatens - isn't unarmed or casting or something making a melee attack impossible.
What can the awareness or lack of awareness of the flanked character or creature possibly have to do with its flanked condition?
It appears that both fame and Prestige Points transfer. What we don't have yet is a Pathfinder Society Field Guide with the Faction Boons for the new Year of the Sky Key factions. Somebody told me it was already released, but I don't see it in the products, so if it is out there, then it must have a different name.
I have wanted to get this thing for my Dwarf Cleric ever since I saw it (kinda morbid, I know :P). Ive been unsure on how it works though. Do I spend the initial PA now to get 'the Risen' title, and then get the benefit of a 1/2 price Raise Dead the first (and hopefully only) time he dies, or do I wait and do the whole thing the 1st time he dies, and at that point he gains 'the Risen' title + bonuses?
If you pay for it before you die, you get killed and resurrected. If you die during a scenario you get raised from the dead via Raise Dead.
You don't get a 1/2 price Raise Dead "the first (and hopefully only) time he dies", if by that you mean the first time he dies while adventuring after getting the title the Risen. You only get the 1/2 price at the time you take the title, whether that is immediately, at which time they kill you and Resurrect you, or the first time you die adventuring, at which time you get the title and bonuses after being raised from the dead.
I had to read through that a couple of times to realize that there was a distinction between resurrection and raised from the dead, as Steven wrote. At first I thought it was Resurrection either way.
As I understand it, after you take the title with Resurrection, you have to pay 4 prestige points if you want to remove the permanent negative level. If you wait until adventuring, you have to pay 8 prestige points (4 each a week apart) if you want to remove the two permanent negative levels, so all you are really getting is a 4PP discount, not really 1/2 price. It sucks that the Restoration spell description says that it dispels one permanent negative level but if you want to use it for that purpose through prestige points, you have to pay double. I guess that is better than the nearly quadruple price in gold, but you may be better off paying the 1280 gp per negative level unless you have prestige points to burn. With the change in factions, maybe we all do.
Say my character was Osirion. Say he died and the Ruby Prince brought him back.
Am I allowed to join any faction other than the Scarab Sages with the Season 6 faction change up?
I don't believe that you can keep the Risen Guard with any faction OTHER than Scarab Sages.
"As a Risen Guard, you may use the honorific “the Risen” after your name. You gain a +2 bonus on Fortitude saves made against death effects and on saves made to prevent a negative level from becoming permanent. ***Once you gain this prestige award, you can never change your faction.***"
Since Osirion becomes Scarab Sages, that is not YOU changing your faction, but as I read this, if you are a Risen Guard you can ONLY be part of the Scarab Sages faction. If YOU change factions to something other than Scarab Sages, I would think that you must give up the Risen Guard title and the benefits.
"Teach an Animal a Trick: You can teach an animal a specific trick with 1 week of work and a successful Handle Animal check against the indicated DC. An animal with an Intelligence score of 1 can learn a maximum of three tricks, while an animal with an Intelligence score of 2 can learn a maximum of six tricks.
Possible tricks (and their associated DCs) include, but are not necessarily limited to, the following.
• Attack (DC 20): The animal attacks apparent enemies. You may point to a particular creature that you wish the animal to attack, and it will comply if able.
Normally, an animal will attack only humanoids, monstrous humanoids, giants, or other animals. Teaching an animal to attack all creatures (including such unnatural creatures as undead and aberrations) counts as two tricks."
I notice the word Normally used here.
Since an Animal Companion shares its Master's Favored Enemy bonuses, if the Master's Favored Enemy is Aberrations or Undead, would that mean that the Animal Companion WILL attack the Favored Enemy on command as a standard attack trick? Or does it still require two tricks devoted to attack?
FLite, I didn't know about Spoiler tags. Thanks. I will try to figure out how to create one if I need to ask another question of this type in the future. You mentioned Mike Brock. I will try to get in touch with him with my question. Thank you.
I am guessing that being a Sorcerer with the Elemental Bloodline is key to Madame Zelekhati's activation of the Dormant ring of earth elemental command without having had to kill an Earth Elemental. I would appreciate definite confirmation or denial of this deduction.
I notice that Chapter 4 in the new Guide is pretty brief as to Factions and nearly silent on boons. I was thinking that you would be incorporating the "Faction Guide" into this Guide for The Year of the Sky Key. Since you have not done so, is there an estimate as to when the new Field Guide with this information will be available? Can we use the boon information in the Year of the Demon Field Guide until that time? Thanks.
The area that denotes what factions are used for which in earlier seasons are still using the old factions and mentioning the retirement of Lantern and Shadow Lodge. I would think the new factions would need to be correlated. Right now it lists Silver Crusade (Andorian), Sczarni(Taldor) and Grand Lodge (Osirion). No mention of other factions.
I know that the Grand Lodge and Silver Crusade is still around, but Sczarni is now folded into The Exchange and there are no mention of where the other factions would go.
I would guess it was in the middle of editing when put on the page.
I'm Pretty sure that the Osirion faction is transmuting into Scarab Sages, not Grand Lodge.
How can I know what activates the ring? Do I have to be a sorcerer like Madame Zelekhati in Destiny of the Sands Part 1?
Spoiler:
"Her half-elven heritage has driven her both to explore the lands across the Inner Sea and later to return to her dune-ridden homeland. There her sorcerous powers manifested, simultaneously awakening the ring that she kept as a memento of her deceased family."
She apparently didn't slay a sandman before the ring activated for her.
"when she encountered a sandman, a sinister elemental creature. Her ring—a mostly dormant ring of elemental command— allowed her to command the sandman."
How would I know if a particular sample of Earth was sacred? Is the Dormant ring of earth elemental command from Destiny of the Sands ONLY a Sandman commanding ring or was that just the first elemental that Zelekhati happened to encounter after her ring activated? Are there other Sacred "Earth" materials that would activate it with the result of being able to command an earth elemental other than a Sandman?
I have no doubt, in this evolving game system, that the Year of the Sky Key guide to Organized Play will either have this information incorporated into it or else as a clearly referenced Field Guide for the new Factions.
Thanks Nefreet. Somebody locally finally identified that for me about an hour ago as well. It is exactly what I knew had to exist - an update for the current year of the 2010 and Shattered Star Faction guides, with Faction fame boon information.
"Her Fame might also afford her certain titles and incidental privileges and allow her to purchase spells and items from her faction between scenarios."
This statement appears in chapter 5 of the Year of the Demon Guide to Pathfinder Society Organized Play, subchapter Fame and Prestige: Benefits of Fame.
What does it mean? Is there any text anywhere that clarifies it?
It seems to be related to a portion of the Pathfinder Adventure Path Shattered Star Player's Guide, in the About the Pathfinder Society chapter. In that chapter there is also a subchapter called Benefits of Fame along with one called Using Fame and Prestige. The latter, on pages 10 and 11, is a consolidation for all factions of the boons that were available to members of each faction, listed in the 2010 Pathfinder Chronicles Faction Guide, when Pathfinders were actually a faction and each faction had detailed boons. In the case of the Pathfinder Faction in that guide, the list of boons is on page 37.
Are any of these Fame boons, including copying spells from the Grand Lodge Library, still valid? or have they all been reduced to a +1 Diplomacy check per 10 Fame points? Will the Fame boons be listed once again in the Year of the Sky Key Player's Guide? They have only appeared twice so far that I am aware of - in the 2010 Factions Guide and in the 2012/2013 Shattered Star Player's Guide.
