silverx's page

I really liked the table scene especially by the time my group got there one of their comrades was already a 'guest'. The groups rogue had tried soloing the observatory the night before and was killed by the tomb mote under the stairs. Filge not wanting to waste good material had animated him.

Of course it meant later, when Filge tried pleeding for his life, he was swiftly dispatched by the enraged group...

Some interesting points, I think that powergaming creeps in very easily if you play RAW. Usually my group enjoys the game when I'm meaner and make them work! However the AOW games are tough and so i have tended to give out items as is, especially as my group lacks a mage/sorcerer (which i think has really helped us have more fun - they have had to innovate and negotiate a lot more).

House rule wise i have reduced them a little for AOW but main ones are:

I still dont like pcs being able to buy magic items 'off the shelf'. Scrolls, potions and low level armor/weapons is ok but i'm meaner with other gear.
I dont allow greatswords - too much damage IMO, cause powergaming. Impractical in a dungeon too :)
I dont give xp out, i let them level once they have succeeded at a story point although i do give some bonuses for good play. I used to have the training rule but found it just slowed play so allow level ups as soon as they reach requirements.

In terms of style, i guess I'm a neutral good DM - i dont like killing players as i enjoy the long campaign with characters driving the story. I try to reward play appropriately: if the pcs are really stupid and get killed well then they are on their own in terms of getting raise deads etc, but if its through bad luck (or bad DMing!) then I dont give them such a hard time.

(You can even use accidental death as a fun plot point. In the shackled city path the paladin in the party was killed early on and raised by a mysterious benefactor/patron who helped with items advice, and the like. He was none-to-pleased to discover at the end of the adventure she was actually a servant of an evil diety who was opposed Adimarchus and had been merely using him as a useful 'cats paw'!)

I suppose in summary I follow most of the rules 'as is' but try to never let them get in the way of a good story.

1. Halfling LN bard (exotic dancer/ex-consort from the Emporium)
2. Human Druid
3. half-elf CG warrior (ex-mine guard)
4. Human N Cleric of Boccob (recently arrived form Greyhawk)
5. Elven CN Rogue (freelance thief, run out of Greyhawk for not joining the thieves guild)

The Dead Book: - womanising CN rogue (human). Spent the first adventure on the run from the crooked sheriff AND the garrison guards, for allegedly selling drugs to the commanders daughter. He was innocent of this - but HAD got her pregnant...
Anyway, he ended up one of Filge's zombies when he tried to 'go solo' in the observatory.

All of the party members are 5th level, using 32 point buy, action points and craft points. Effectively they are a 7th level party.

This is the problem! I gave mine 28 points and they use action points. To make up for this I give them slower xp gains.

My group have just finished the first adventure (5-6 sessions worth of play) and they are still second level. I played the adventure as is - other than cutting out one of the wind warriors - even then there was only 'one man standing' at the end! I make them use their action points and sweat a bit!

I also make the locals smarter - Smenk claimed the cairn and posted guards that were too hard for them to kill. So the party had to use other skills to get back in: Bribery, diplomacy, sneaking etc. worked fine and was much more fun than hack-and-slash.

If they aren't using the standard rules then i usually run adventures that are 1-2 levels higher. A cakewall gets boring, I just have to be careful that they dont meet unbeatable foes.

Thanks for the reminder, I've using a rather ragged and much used copy of the map out of the 'From The Ashes' boxset. Not sure how much longer it would last!
Never did run Doomgrinder or Star Cairns - they worth another look maybe?

The dilemma of what to do with prisoners, reminds me of the WW2 movie 'The Guns of Navarone'. If you dont know it: a small group are sent into an occupied part of Greece to blow up some Nazi naval guns that threaten shipping. They find out that one of the local guides (a young woman) is a spy. Their dilemma: they can't take her with them, and they can't leave her behind, because either way she will compromise the mission. But, (not being ruthless Nazi's!) they rather balk at the idea of killing an unarmed woman. Fortunately for the good guys, the other (female) guide shoots her - effectively saving them the decision. In D&D terms, a tough decision (maybe) for a paladin!

In Filge's case it doesnt really apply as there are authorities to hand him to. Still in my campaign he HAD raised the corpse one of the party as a zombie so the had plenty reason to hate him. I just thought killing him after accepting his surrender was 'bad form'!

Thanks for your replies - an interesting discussion!

I've been DM with this group for 15 years and is the first campaign in a long time, where there hasn't been a paladin/lawful aligned cleric; there is only one good character, a female halfling exotic-dancer (bard) and she wasn't present that night.

The pcs know the sheriff is corrupt, but have had fair dealings with the church of Heironeus. I felt they were a bit harsh to take the law into their own hands - he had pleaded for his life quite convincingly (well I thought so anyway!). I think they played to their alignments - just - but will act if they make a habit of it. Overall I think he got what he deserved.

I don't like alignment changes, it usually disrupts the campaign and can be a pain to run in my experience. For example, I've only ever experienced one 'evil' campaign that really worked (as a player rather than DM) and that was becuase it was a small group of 2-3 players, as soon as more joined it fell apart. I have five players in this group!

It's been helpful to see how others would approach it.

My group are still playing the first adventure and managed to capture Filge alive (he surrendered when he realised he would be defeated) then after interogating him a while, they decided to kill him. Most are neutral and/or chaotic aligned, but none are evil.

It seems to me that though he is thoroughly unpleasant, there is no proof that Filge has killed anyone, and as he pointed out to the pcs, they did break into his property...

(I must admit the pcs had some provocation: the party thief had decided to solo the observatory and was killed by the Tomb mote when he broke into the store. Filge had 'invited' him to be a 'guest' at the dining-table by the time the rest of the party got there! Still as Filge pointed out he was a thief and had been killed by a 'guard-dog', not murdered.)

I'd be interested whether other DMs consider this an evil act, with possible alignment consequences etc., and if so how would they 'play' it.

Like this idea used it last night to add a bit of fun. To be honest my group were resting in the cairn but had to go to town when one of them got squished in the elevator trap (despite repeated descriptions of 'crushed bones crunching under foot'!!)
They started throwing their new found wealth around so I punished them a little for that.

Definitely not too harsh, I always try to play the NPC's to their full potential/limitations. Smenck would certainly try this if he got wind of it. It depends on the PC's actions though, if they went to town and made a point of not discussing their discoveries, then fine let them 'commute' to the cairn. But if the locals find out, then they are fair game!

We don't have any intention of messing with the format any time soon. We're all very happy with the article mix and feel like we've got a really good product.

Really like the format, I've been buying dungeon pretty much since issue 1 and like the new layout. I found it harder to read/use since it went full colour and I didnt like the merge with Polyhedron (despite some of the interesting settings it had) I was also disappointed by the lack of web support since it was bought by Paizo so the new look is VERY welcome!

115 is a good issue and looks great (other than the dreadful cover art - 114 was much better!)Its much easier to read and the interior art work is nice. A few good pages art work are invaluble ( eg i recently ran 'Beast of Burden' from issue 100 and the painting of the colossal Kadtanach really caught the gamers imaginations). I like the workbook sections - I frequently drop little hooks/encounters into the game to add ' a bit of colour', so the ideas in the 'fairs and markets' are really useful.

The adventure mix is fine - I dont mind other settings, I've run Greyhawk campaigns for over 15 yrs and have frequent borrowed Planescape, Realms etc adventures. (Eberron looks fun!) I'm running the adventure path at the moment but its heavily modified so the lack of hooks doesnt apply. What I do like, though is a clear and concise adventure synopsis.

Are there any plans to include Greyhawk articles? ("Living" or otherwise) - the Hardby stuff a few issues back was very good.

Anyway I really like re-vamp and feel Dungeon has definitely improved for the better. Keep up the good work!