Haiten Bhaq

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context: after reading the rules for grapple and the message board it seems the interpretation of the rules is that a grappler receives -2(-4dex) to cmd for being grappled. and if pinning a defender then this is added to a loss of dex bonus for pinning (does this mean they effectively have a 6 dex?). the defender has a -2(-4dex) cmd for being grappled and if pinned this is replaced by a loss of dex bonus and a -4 to AC, which would reduce the cmd of the defender. on top of this there is the +5 for grappling a defender beyond the first round. so effectively the grappler has a +7 the second round (+5 to the controller and the penalty to dex for the defender)and +9 plus once they have the defender pinned (+5 to the controller and -4 ac + to the defender). is this correct? as i have not read an official interpretation i will use this as the common interpretation.

this would give the grappler more advantage to maintain the grapple, and strength is given more priority to dexterity in the grapple. this is likely to be realistic and also somewhat hard to continue calculating in some fast combat situations.

suggestion 1. for quick rules or for future pathfinder options the penalties to dexterity and AC for being grappled or pinned could be nullified between the grapplers, in other words they have no effect in the grapple itself, only making them easier to hit by ungrappled creatures. the penalties to movements and actions would still remain applicable, so there is still an advantage to pinning one's opponent.

this could be explained by imagining that a dexterous defender is slippery and able to move suddenly and in unexpected directions making their dexterity still applicable to the grappler as much as is their strength.

this way the only modifier to remember is the +5, until an ungrappled creature attacks the grappled creatures.

suggestion 2.

context: i do not see any rules for throwing creatures aside from throwing objects and improvised weapons, or for using creatures as weapons.

suggestion: add 4 new options to the grapple maneuver; lift, swing, swing attack, throw.

once a defender is grappled a grappler can attempt to lift the creature who is no more than their maximum load, and no larger then their size over head with a successful grapple check, the defender gets +4 to their cmb to escape the grapple while overhead. the grappler also loses their dexterity bonus to their ac as though the grappler was pinning the defender. the defender does not have the pinned condition.

swing: once a defender is grappled a grappler can attempt to swing a creature who is no more than twice their maximum load and no more than 1 size category larger around them. they swing at a rate of one full circle per round if the same size and no more than a heavy load, half a circle per round if one size category larger or more than their maximum load, and one and a half of a circle if one size category smaller or between medium load, and two full circles if a light load or two or more size categories smaller. grappler must have room to swing the defender, there must not be any object large enough or large enough creature occupying the threatened area to block the initiation of the swing. the grappler must have a 5ft radius clear to swing small and medium creatures or a ten foot radius for large creatures.

swing attack: once a grappler is swinging a defender the grappler may attempt an attack using the defender as an improvised weapon. the grappler may take a 5 ft step before or after this attack in the direction of the attack only. The grappler must first roll to maintain the grapple as usual and then makes a melee attack at -2 for a resisting weapon and -4 for being an improvised weapon (-6). Swinging large creatures threaten a 10ft radius. this attack is two handed, unless the swung creature is two size categories or more smaller than the grappler,when it can be made one-handed. a creature is not considered a proficient weapon even with the improvised weapon or throw anything feat, as they are unpredictable. this attack can either damage the creature being thrown or the creature being hit, not both. once the melee attack ends whether it hit or missed the defender gets a free escape attempt with a bonus of 4+damage dealt to their CMB or escape artist skill, if the attack misses then the grappler may continue swinging the creature next round as though they had already grappled the creature in the previous round. an attack that rolls a 1 automatically frees the defender from the grapple. for every circle the grappler has swung before the attack the grappler receives +1 to damage to a maximum of their constitution bonus (minimum 1). this attack can also be made as ranged attack with a range increment of 5 ft per half swing to a maximum increment distance of 5ft+5ft per constitution bonus (minimum 5 ft). this attack incurs all the penalties as mentioned above (-6) and bonuses (+1 damage). If the creature will be swung into a life threatening situation, such as over a cliff or into a fire then the defender receives a free escape check as per the MOVE maneuver in grapple, normal ranged attack does not count for being life threatening. again this attack can harm the swung defender or the defender hit.

Throw: once a grappler has lifted a defender a grappler may attempt to throw the defender as per the swing throw ranged attack (-6)except without the damage bonus and the range increment is 5ft per constitution bonus(min 5ft). the grappler can take a 5ft step before or after the throw in the direction of throwing. if this attack is life threatening, in any way other than a regular ranged attack, the defender gets a free escape attempt as per the MOVE maneuver and with the +4 for being overhead.

maybe the constitution could be strength for the throw manuever, or something like that. there is rules for damage in the hurler rage power in the Advanced players g.