renee rameshwar's page

i live in TO and already run a regular game. One suggestion for finding players in the area would be to use Meetup.com and checking out the Toronto role playing game group. There might be a Hamilton one as well that you could join. There are often people on there from the surrounding GTA looking for games to play in, and you could post a message. I've had success with this in finding players for my game.

Okay my question is why is the shaft located above the ziggarat and not the crater? That just doesn't make any sense. If the tear was fired down the shaft to devestate Golgismara shouldn't the shaft be located right above the crater? What's the deal here?

Yes that was a Shadowrun reference. And if you encounter a dragon in Dnd trying to cut a deal with it is often a better choice than trying to fight one, but if you can avoid a dragon altogether- well really that is often your best option.

Somewhat tangential to this discussion, but...

renee rameshwar wrote:

But seriously, isn't there an old expression "Never deal with a dragon".

If by "old expression" you mean "title of one of the first Shadowrun novels," then yes, there is that "old expression."

But I don't think that old expression applies because a) it's not that old (to me, but I've been around a while), and b) Shadowrun dragons were all meant to be cryptic and untrustworthy (plus Shadowrun was a whole other system), so the example doesn't really carry over to D&D.

Now admittedly, D&D dragons are their own bundle of trouble to deal with, but my long experience with D&D dragons has generally taught me one should almost always deal with a dragon, if nothing else to give you time to figure out an escape plan. So saying "never deal with a dragon" strikes me as bad advice for D&D.

Well if were playing said paladin, and my God said that to me- given the circumstances and stakes, I'd be sorely tempted to abandon my God and side with the demons just to teach my God a lesson. In the end I might not side with demons, but I would certainly convert to some new religion.

renee rameshwar wrote:

I'm thinking that maybe a army of celestials isn't the way to go, but how about the use of a couple of handy artifacts- maybe the shield of Prattor or some kind of demon killing sword. What about just a couple of angelic servants to help in the battle- maybe a Planetar special forces squad. I haven't seen the final issue yet, but if you did grant the characters something lik e this I think they'd feel good and important instead of neglected and isolated. In the final battle those allies could be busy holding off Demogorgon's body guards leaving the PCs free to fight big D. That way they could still still do something useful without the game grinding to a halt because of all the extra characters in the fight.

Actually, any god would probably respond..."You're already a paladin, you already have my divine blessing and all those nifty class benefits- If you need anything else, it's your faith that's not strong enough, not me." Hell of a way to blow someone off, but yes, that's probably the answer they'd give.

Personally, though, while I believe that there's definently a moral conflict over this, the deity shouldn't penalize the paladin excessively. Yes, after the Adventure Path, he'll probably have to do penance, but the idea of 'For the Greater Good' should prevail. After all, the PC isn't betraying his god- And there's the very real chance the player may ask, IC: "Then do you have any better ideas?" Frankly, if anyone could dislodge Demogorgon, they would have done so before; This is a once-in-a-multiverse opportunity!

Also, 'Enemies Of My Enemy' seems to deliberately avoid a problem for the Paladin- Accepting the Queen's Kiss is evil and chaotic, but she kisses the character with the *lowest* Charisma- Who most likely will NOT be the paladin, at this stage.

Its probably good that you don't have to kill him. I'd rather see him survive. Demogorgon's been around way too long to be taken out by a band of punk ass mortals. He shouldn't go down like that.

They're playing a dangerous game. Sure the dragon can help out and sink a few ships, but it will likely do this when it feels like it, and it won't want to put itself too much at risk.

The real problems arise after the fight. Why should the dragon stay content with 50k. Sure it will take the money, and maybe leave Farshore alone for a week or two, so that it can say that it fulfilled its deal. But after that it is now aware of Farshore, and will likely take an interest in the settlement. It could then show up again, and start demmanding a regular tribute to stave off its wrath.

I was thinking of using a black dragon instead (mostly because I have the big mini). So you could be real nasty and have the green dragon be a black dragon that was using magic to trick them. Suddenly the thing is no longer LE, but CE and has no qualms about not following through with a agreement.

But seriously, isn't there an old expression "Never deal with a dragon". Your players need to be taught a lesson. You don't cut deals with ancient chromatic dragons and expect to come out on top. They should in the end rue the day they decided to take that course of action. I'm not saying that you should destroy them, but the dragon should be coming back and trying to suck more and more money and resources out of Farshore. He might be happy to see the colony grow and thrive, but he should want a cut of all the profits- a big cut. And what would he offer in return, nothing other than I won't slaughter you all on whim.

Speaking of Mass battles. I'm kind of surprised you guys didn't use the VP and heroes of battle stuff again like in Tides of Dread. It was probably a space thing, but I thought that was a pretty cool aspect about TofD that would have worked well in the last few issues of the AP.

I'd still want a Solar or a gold dragon. Sure its fun to be the heroes and do it on your own, but its also fun to have the dm hand you a stat sheet for a solar and say here's your help go to town. Plus it gives a backup character to run when your PC gets wasted.

I agree that forces of LG might be hesistant to send a large force into the Abyss for fear of the consequences you mention above. However, this doens't mean they couldn't offer some meaningful aid.

I think I'd be very frustrated as a player if I were rping a paladin or cleric of LG diety and I requested some aid in dealing with a threat that could completely ravage the material plane, and my God wouldn't offer any help. I'd probably convert to a new god or join the up with the demons, just to teach my old diety a lesson. If you are playing a good aligned cleric or paladin the first place you're going to go to look for help is your own god.

Granted the Greyhawk gods are supposed to be a little more distant from their worshippers than say the Forgotten Realms gods, but they still have a huge stake in the outcome of these events, so they should be willing to help in some way.

I'm thinking that maybe a army of celestials isn't the way to go, but how about the use of a couple of handy artifacts- maybe the shield of Prattor or some kind of demon killing sword. What about just a couple of angelic servants to help in the battle- maybe a Planetar special forces squad. I haven't seen the final issue yet, but if you did grant the characters something lik e this I think they'd feel good and important instead of neglected and isolated. In the final battle those allies could be busy holding off Demogorgon's body guards leaving the PCs free to fight big D. That way they could still still do something useful without the game grinding to a halt because of all the extra characters in the fight.

I really am eager to see how the final issue is set up. I hope that the final confrontation can stay dynamic and interesting and not bog down into a mechanical nightmare because of all the different factions involved. Hopefully most of that business can be kept on the side lines so that the PCs can focus on their fight with D. Still it's always nice to have a Solar watching your back. And as far as I'm concerned, if I'm a 20th level cleric going to battle the prince of demons in an attempt to save the world that is about the least my god could do help me out.

Well if you didn't want to deal with Ahzu you could probably provide a lot of the information that Shamae Amoure knows through Iggwilv instead. It seems to me that one of the more valuable resources they can find in the adventure is the demonicon. If they acquire this artifiact it could lead them on a quest for a audience with Iggwilv.

Iggwilv might not know exactly what Demogorgon's up to, but she might have some hypotheses regarding his weaknesses, and the conflict between his two heads. She might not have the first hand experience that Shamae does, so in her case all her advice would be speculation. However, she's a smart gal, so her speculation could well be correct.

I think as long as the party learns about Iggwilv and finds a means of contacting her the campaign can easily proceed regardless of whether or not they deal with Ahzu.

Again I'm interested to see how my players and there characters will react to this. I have a feeling they won't like the idea of working with Ahzu, and I hope that they won't feel like they are being railroaded into it. If they do I'll remind them that they don't have to make the deal, and then try to find a way to work around it and continue the campaign.

I would suggest that in future products- particularly with the pathfinder stuff that the writers include debugging sidebars. I found that these were very helpful when I used to run Shadowrun games. The Shadowrun modules always had them, and if you ran into a situation like that they would have something like- "What to do if characters don't want to deal with Ahuzu:" and then there would be some suggestions. Like "Dealing with Ahzu isn't absolutely essential. As some of the information Shamae Armae knows can be later gleaned from conversations with Iggiwilv. Allow your PCs to continue to research weaknesses for demogorgon how they wish. One of the ways they may do this is through consultation with sages and lore on material plane. If they opt to go this route they can learn that few indivduals know more about the Abyss and its demon lords than Iggwilv and she may be an invaluable resource. However, there is one other entity who may know even more than she and it is called Dagon."

Hopefully the Pathfinder products will have the space to accomodate useful advice to dms who have PCs that stray from the path.

i put in a dragon subscription back in december. I have yet to receive a single issue. I checked the address in my account and it is all correct. I don't know whether it just took a long time to process or if I've missed issues. Can you help me? What is the first issue I should have gotten?