Um... I'll chalk that one up to late night for you...
Let's do that, I like that excuse.
Thank you all for your help.
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oh by the way dismissal -- your shadow is a summons and it's gone now. How would that effect the shadowdancer? I'm going to assume he'd have to make the DC 15 Fort save, but since it was neither destroyed nor willingly dismissed I'd like positive clarification... The near and far of it is that melee is not the way to kill a mage. Magic is the way to kill a mage, or a nice monster. I've come to that rather definitive conclusion by this point. Melee has an average start with a strong finish while magic has a slow start with a powerhouse finish. At higher levels the mage is by far the more powerful of the two. In a straight fight, unless the mage does something overwhelmingly stupid, he will win. Oh well, it was fun plotting. One last strategy: Wand of Antimagic field. Cast it on yourself, close fast, use Step Up and Stand Still to keep the mage inside the 10 ft range and pound on him till he's dead. Though, I suppose alternatively you can always slit his throat while he's sleeping...
I would also mention the Teleportation School specialism from the APG. Grapple and step-up are ineffective against it.Wouldn't you still be required to make a Concentration check in order to utilize the ability? To answer my own question, no you wouldn't. Supernatural ability, not spell-like. So same tactic as above. Stealth and try and catch him off-guard, then Stealth again. Rinse, lather, repeat. Or... wand of Darkness or Deeper Darkness? The teleport ability says "You must be able to see the space that you are moving into." Take away his vision and you neutralize the ability.
You know, I've never really taken the time to stop and look at the new PFRPG Arcane Trickster. You've got me interested. It sounds like it could be a great deal of fun. And I'm rapidly realizing that you're right. The only way to fight fire is with fire - at least here. All these potential strategies I'm suggesting are relying on either UMD or the character's shadow (Create Greater Undead?). /sigh Doesn't mean I'm not going to try.
Honestly a mage not 45 feet off the ground at all times at level 10 is asking for problems. I'm assuming the mage is using Fly as it gives him a speed of 60 ft as opposed to the 40 ft of Overland Flight. A Shadow has a fly speed of 40 ft, which, while not enough to stay up with him in a race, keeps him in the air. In the above scenario, the mage would be flying in at least dim light, meaning the shadow can Stealth, follow him around, and then attack whenever it gets into range. Two or lucky hits or three average ones on the average mage and he's dead. Alternatively, UMD, a wand of Dispel Magic, and Russian roulette to try and get the Fly spell. I would also mention the Teleportation School specialism from the APG. Grapple and step-up are ineffective against it. Wouldn't you still be required to make a Concentration check in order to utilize the ability?
Thanks all, you've given me quite a deal to think about. Just want to clarify something, then I have one little favor to ask... I think the idea is to kill NPC mages, not PC mages. There's some pretty big differences. Yes and no. The stats I've listed are for a character I'd actually like to play - ergo, NPC's - but the theory for him is coming from a similar character I'm designing for a friendly grudge match against the mage in our group. We're both designing characters especially to fight against the other. So really I shouldn't be asking if it works, I should be asking what are my weak points? Not that you haven't already done a good job, but please people, tear this guy apart. I know the odds are against me, so if I want to have any chance he has to be the best I can make him - even if the best isn't necessarily good. So rip him into tiny, itty, bitty, little shreds and make him cry. Big half-orc tears. If you had to make a mage for this, how would you fight this guy? Further particulars for the duel: room is a square, 150 feet by 150 feet. There are two doors on either side, the two characters will enter through there. Room is lit by torches along the walls and a large bonfire directly in the center of the room. The walls, ceiling, and ground are made of pure unobtanium that prevents any escape from the room once the two doors are shut. Presumably the monk will go before the mage. He pops a potion of Invisibility, and he and his shadow enter into the room, Stealth, and move towards the mage's side. Mage's turn. It's just your character, what he has on him, and what he can summon. Your go.
There's a number of axioms that tend to be bantered across my game table, some more often than others. Perhaps the one I hear the most is this - "If you're going to kill the mage, then you better do it now." As a bit of background, I play a fighter and my friend a sorcerer. We're still low level at the moment, hence the statement that if I'm going to kill the mage, I need to do it before we reach higher levels - at which point a melee combatant cannot possibly triumph against an equivalent level magic user. This past week I took the unspoken challenge that a high level fighter can't kill a high level mage personally and began constructing what I feel to be a viable melee arcane magic user killer. I'd like some input on the idea. As far as content limitations go, the campaign is presumably Pathfinder only but with a convincing enough argument the occasional splat content is allowed. The theory is this, if a magic user's strength is his spells - dur - than the goal should be to prevent casting. PFRPG gives fighters a nice mechanic for this in the Disruptive and Spellbreaker feats, but all other classes are left behind. Not to mention, those two feats are easily avoided simply by not being next to the fighter when you cast. The Mage Slayer feat chain in Complete Arcane gives some nice options as well, but as those are splat I didn't bother trying to incorporate them just yet. I'd like to exhaust all PFRPG options first. So I've created a character who's primary focus is on grappling. While it doesn't prevent casting completely, it does eliminate any spells with a somatic component and the required 10 + CMB + Spell Level concentration check is about as good as it gets. His secondary focus is on stealth. The idea is to sneak up to the mage, making his way past any traps, guards, or other defenses, tackle the mage, and go from there. Problem #1: Once grappling the mage, his damage potential is extremely limited - meaning a long time till the mage is dead. In other words, a long time for help to arrive, for the mage to escape the grapple, or for a million other things to go wrong. I've attempted to alleviate this by taking 3 levels in Shadowdancer to gain the Shadow companion - character grapples, shadow kills - but that's a relatively poor fix. e.g. What if the target is a lich? Here's the concept: Rogue 1/Fighter 1/Monk 5/Shadowdancer 3 (I'm limiting it to 10 levels because if the theory isn't viable at 10, then there's no point going further.) Realistically, I should make him human (at the least, it'd eliminate the fighter level) but because I have an odd sense of humor and it would amuse me, I'd like to make him a half-orc. Perhaps with the Rock Climber and Sacred Tattoo alternative racial traits from the APG. That's incidental though. For stats, we're offered a 23 point buy. For a half-orc, I chose. STR 10
I'll break down the levels and the reasoning behind them to elaborate on the theory. 1) Rogue 1:
2) Monk 1:
3) Fighter 1:
[Weapon Celerity (combat) Requirements: Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus, Base Attack +3
Benefit: With a light weapon, elven curve blade, rapier, whip, or spiked chain made for a creature of your size category, you may use your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier on melee damage rolls. Attacks made with an off hand attack using any of the listed weapons may use half your Dexterity modifier, rounded down, instead of your Strength modifier. When using any of the listed weapons in one hand while nothing occupies the other hand and wearing light or no armor, you may use 1 and a half times your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier on melee damage rolls. You may not use this feat if you carry a shield other than a Buckler. Special: Natural weapons are considered light weapons.] 4) Monk 2:
5) Monk 3:
6) Shadowdancer 1:
7) Shadowdancer 2:
8) Shadowdancer 3:
9) Monk 4:
10) Monk 5:
Problem #2: Is the character at all viable as a Player character? In other words, is he at all useful against other enemies? He can serve as a scout and an infiltrator, but is he a viable equivalent to a level 10 rogue? I believe so, but I'm not positive. Hence the asking. Thoughts? |