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And the last part for water.

I'm surprised to hear you relatively okay with fire, but antagonistic against better fire.

And that's what water is, for the most part. Better fire. I rest my case on Blazing Wave vs. Tidal Hands.

Tidal Hands is level 1 rather than 4, an arguably better damage type, and far more flexible in its area. This pattern repeats with Winter's Clutch and Slippery Sheet.

Water gets more, better, earlier. They have a joke of a level 18 feat, but they will do dramatically more damage as-written throughout the course of a campaign. And I don't know about you, but I've found far use for waterbreathing then torches throughout my 2E campaigns.

There is a lot about burn here on the forums, and I wanted to use this as a jumping off point for discussion.

I want to put this out in front. I dislike Burn. I dislike it mechanically in 2E, and I absolutely disagreed with its implementation in 1E. I think it was overly complex, tried to solve the wrong problems, and didn't succeed at its own goals.

For those not familiar with burn, I won't dilute this post too much to 1E's implementation. Burn was the cost you paid when you used most 1E kineticist abilities. You paid modular amounts of burn to use these abilities, and each point represented taking nonlethal damage equal to your character level in a way that wouldn't heal until you rested. Burn is mentioned 53 times in the Archives of Nethys front page for the class, and is notoriously complex. I recommend reading what others have already stated about it.

Anyway, let's talk about one 2E and burn. I've seen two simple suggestions for Burn in 2E:

its fine for either, not that many enemies have attack of opportunity, and when they do you can easily just blast from 20ft+

Until you face a Lesser Death and you cry when you see its version of an AAO:

Lurking Death (teleportation); Trigger A creature within 60 feet makes a ranged attack or uses an action that has the concentrate, manipulate, or move trait. Effect The lesser death teleports to a square adjacent to the triggering creature and makes a melee Strike against it. If the Strike hits, the lesser death disrupts the triggering action.

This may have come up in a Level 16 playtest I did that resulted in a party wipe...

The following is a log of three combats starring the same characters: an azarketi intimidation sword/board fighter, a thief rogue, an elf sorcerer using a bow and cantrips, and a dedicated gate human fire kineticist (Con>Dex) taking the following feats:

1 Burning Jet
1 Warming Nimbus
1 Elemental Weapon
1 Flame Eruption
2 Eternal Torch
4 Blazing Wave
6 Stoke Element
8 Kindle Inner Flames
10 Chain Blasts
12 Furnace Form
14 Horrid Ignition
16 Effortless Impulse
18 Ignite the Sun
20 All Shall End in Flames

The combats were randomly generated through a utility I developed. All encounters took place in a 20x20 room with two ledges for cover on the opposite side of the room, and 3 columns granting total cover on each side of the room.

Enemies were randomly generated from a select pool, with only 1 enemy type per level. IE, all enemies at -3 to the party would be the same creature. Legal enemies including heavily featured undead, demons, and evil NPCs (this tool was developed for random encounters for 2E WOTR conversion). The enemies were also randomly placed in the room.

Each character was built to level 20, and provided reasonable gear at each level. The majority of the gold went to the Fighter, simply because they had more combat relevant needs. All rolls were prerolled in bulk.

An overall conclusion: the martial characters and the cantrip+bow using sorcerer (no spell slots or focus points consumed) significantly out-performed the kineticist in the encounters at 1, 6, and 10. The kineticist had some awkward turns, didn't do amazing damage even with the best combination, and accidentally BBQed the fighter. The Elf Sorcerer had greater control over their damage using Scatter Scree and Electric Arc, and a better array of damage types.

Level 1 Moderate Encounter (all weapons drawn at start of combat)
2 Weak Harrow Readers (-2)
1 Elite Begger (0)

Round 1
Weak Harrow Reader 1 Strides x2, Strikes Elf Sorcerer for 4 damage (Azarketi Fighter hits AAO for 3 damage)
Human Kineticist deals Gathers Power, Strikes x2 WHR1 for 4 damage in melee (1M, 1H); WR1 dies
WHR 2 Strides x1, Strikes x2 Elf Sorcerer for 3 damage (1H, 1M)
HF Strikes WHR2 for 7 damage, Strides, Raises Shield
ES Strides, casts Electric Arc (6); WHR2 fails and dies, EB succeeds
HR Strides, Strikes x2 Elite Begger for 8 damage
Elite Begger Strikes x3 (3M)

Round 2
HK Strikes EB for 3 damage, uses Flame Eruption for 1 damage, EB succeeds
AF Strides x2, Strikes EB for 8 damage. EB dies.

Total damage: AF 18, ES 9, HR 8, HK 8

Level 6 Moderate Encounter (all main weapons drawn at start of combat)
Assassin (8)
Gear: All one +1 striking weapon and +1 armor per party member
Gear: Fighter +1 Shield Boss, Minor Sturdy Shield, Full Plate

Round 1
HR nat20, AF nat20, Assassin 30, HK 25, ES 22

HR Strides, Strikes x2 (1H, 1M) for 11 damage
AF Strides, Double Slice (2H) for 8 damage (Assassin Nimble Dodges longsword)
Assassin Steps, Poisons arrow (Giant Centipede), Quick Draws longbow against ES (Crit), 8 Arrow, 9 deadly d10, 4 sneak attack x2 (42)
ES fails savings throw (15)
HK Gathers Power, Strikes (1M), Stokes Element
ES Strikes (1M), Strides x2 (Success on poison; 4 damage)

Round 2
HR Creates a Diversion (F), Strikes x2
AF Steps, Demoralizes (Success), Strikes (1M)
Assassin Strides x2 (Fighter AAOs, hit for 15), Quickdraws rapier (1M)
HK Strides, Strikes x2 for 10 (Assassin in Light Cover, 1M, 1H)
ES Strides x3

Round 3
HR Strides x2, Strikes (1M0
AF Strides x2, Strikes for 26 (critical hit)
Assassin Creates a Diversion (nat 1), Strikes HR x2 (2M)
HK Strikes x2 for 12 (1 CH, 1M), Stokes Element
ES Strides, Strikes (1M), Strides

Round 4
HR Strikes x3 for 50 (3H thanks to FF)
HF Demoralizes (fail), Double Slices for 28 (1 CH, 1M)

Total Damage: HF 77, HR 61, HK 22, ES 0

Level 10 Moderate Encounter (no weapons drawn at start of combat)
1 Weak Zombie Dragon
2 Tyrannasaurus Skeletons (TS1 spawned next to party, TS2 spawned away)
Gear: All one thundering rune
Gear: Fighter 1 striking rune, demon mask, force shield; Rogue ventriloquist's ring

Round 1
AF Battle Cry (all immune), Interacts x2 to Draw Longsword, Shield, Strikes TS1 with Shield Boss for 58 (near max roll) (CH)
TS1 Tramples for 19: HR CS, HK F, ES CS (nat20), AF S
HF AAOs (1M)
HR Delays turn
HK Gathers Element, Kindles Inner Flame
HR Strides x1, Quick Draws TS1 x1 for 25 (-16) (Precise Debilitation, 1H), Strikes TS1 x1 for 30 (-10)(1H)
TS2 Strides, Strikes AF for 27 (1H), Rib Skewers ES for 12 (succcess)
ES Quick Draws (Archetype) to strike Zombie Dragon for 24 (1H), Scatter Screes for 17 on TS1 (fail) & TS2 (S)
ZD Strides, Strikes AF for 56 (CS)

Round 2
AF Strides, DS against TS1 for 28 (-15) and 15 (2H); HR Opportune Backstabs (1M)
TS1 Tramples for 18: HK S, ES CF, AF F
HK Strides x1, Blazing Wave for 28: ZD F, TS1 F (-10), TS2 F (-10), AF CF (nat 1 dying 2)
AF fails recovery check (dying 3)
HR Strides, Interacts to draw healer's tools, Battle Medicine on AF (21 HP/W1 with Godless Healing)
TS2 Strikes AF 21 (dying 2), Rib Skewers AF for 24 (F, dying 3), Rib Skewers HR for 48 (CF)
ES Strikes ZD (1M), Scatter Screes ZD and TS2 for 28: ZD CS, TS2 succeeds
ZD uses Breath Weapon for 33, 2 round CD: HK S, HR CS, AF CF (dead), ES saves

Round 3
HK Gathers Power, Strikes ZD for 21, Stokes Element
HR Escapes (29), Battle Medicines (21), Strides
TS2 Strikes x2 for 25 (1H, 1M), Rib Skewers HR (CS)
ES Strikes ZD for 15, Scatter Screes for 22: ZD F, TS2 F
ZD Strikes x2 with tail ES (2M)

Round 4
HK Strikes ZD x1 (1M), Blazing Waves for 24: ZD F, TS2 S
HR Hides (S), Sneaks (S), Strikes ZD for 40 (CS)
TS2 Strikes HR x2 for 12 (1H, 1M), Rib Skewers HR for 21 (CS)
ES Strikes ZD (1M), Scatter Screes for 13: ZD F, TS2 F
ZD Strikes x2 with tail ES (2M)

Round 5
HK Gathers Elements, Strikes ZD for 26 (CS), Stokes Element
HR Feints (F), Feints (S), Strikes TS2 for 4Pi (-10), 18 Pr, 2 S (CS); DS: FF
TS2 Strikes HR x2 (2M), Rib Skewers HR (CS)
ES Strikes TS2 for 33 Pi (-10) + 2S; ES uses Scatter Scree for 13: TS2 nat 1s

Total Damage: ES 181, HK 132, HR 89, AF 86

For basic blasts without feats, they are basically magical stances with a melee and ranged component.

I just want to point out that the option to take stance feats that modify the blast would be an interesting thematic addition to the class, and another action economy saver that could be tied to Gather Power.

Where should the expectation on damage be is my wonder.

I think that elemental blasts should be on-par with Thaumaturge or Inventor Strikes, regular impulses should be equivalent to cantrips, and big overflow impulses (3-action) should fall just shy of the best two-action focus spells.

It doesn't have to all of these at once, but they all need to be possible.

siegfriedliner wrote:

Honestly I would like to see a quick gather(like quick draw) action that gathers and kinetic blasts in 1 action.

Absolutely mandatory feats seem a bit silly.

Need something more baseline.

I don't think they were implying that this was feat actually. Could be, but could also be a baseline ability.

I think that in general, I am okay with 3-action overflow abilities matching focus spells or being around 1d6 behind. So if a 9th level dragon's breath does 17d6 (60) and a 9th level fireball does 18d6 (63) I'd like to see an 18th level, 3-action overflow deal between 16d6 (56) and 17d6 (60).

This is a pretty large difference from what we actually see. The Shattered Mountain Weeps is the top with 9d10 (50), while All Shall End in Flames is at the end with 7d10 (39). We'd need something between 10d10 and 11d10 to reach that level.

At level 1, the comparison that fits best would be Spray of Stars, at least from what I've found. That's 1d4 over a 15ft cone. Kineticist actually overperforms here with Aerial Boomerang or Tidal Hands, but scales up to better focus spells.

If it does work, there are some very weird interactions like persistent bludgeoning damage. Also Elemental Weapon doesn't say a level one weapon, if you can take later and gain a much higher level bomb.

This would also arguably let you create common magical weapons at any level, not just the level you are at. For instance, a Major Buzzsaw Axe, which is a "one-handed simple or martial weapon" that is "common" despite being level 20.

This should almost certainly be a level 1, one-handed, simple or martial, common, non-consumable, melee weapon.

I'd also like to have the hand wielding it count as a free-hand for impulses because as written a kinetic loses the ability to use a Shield when they make an elemental weapon. It seems to me that the type of kineticist that would go to town with a created weapon would be more likely, not less, to want a shield.

Because the class is designed around what is effectively a 6 action basic combo, even using a single move action can noticeably reduce your efficiency. I won't say this is a bad thing just yet, but I wouldnt be surprised if having built in 3rd action choices that are almost mandatory means common 3rd action options will go unused, and the support systems built into the game won't interact with the class.

I don't think being derailed by a single move action is a healthy place to be. One of the absolute best features of 2E is the freedom the unbounded 3-action system gives it. Being unable to move, Raise a Shield, Demoralize, cast a cantrip from a multiclass archetype, &c. from the massive list of actions and activities is a bad thing.

I think there is a very simple solution to this, and a less simple but more flavorful solution. The simple solution is to let the kineticist Stride at half their Speed when Gathering Elements (going up to their Speed at some point).

The more flavorful solution is to let different elements or gate types do different things, in the same way Gunslingers reload differently.

I do think this is intended to be treat as a 5-ft burst with 30 ft of verticality, and is just poorly written to achieve that effect. I would stand the other way if said "square" rather than "square(s)".

I did test in the first day in a lvl 3 one-shot, it does indeed feel better, played a dedicated water one.

Being able to do blast + tidal hands and next turn gather + blast twice was fine, and later that build could have 2 actions blasts to out in there like the one that strikes 5 creatures. I even managed water dance allies out of enemies range too and that was a cool as heck utility in battle

Gather element could have a small bonus on it depending of the element like a small circumstance bonus to AC if earth and so on, but it was not as bad as I thought would be.

Power wise impulses could indeed use a boost, but should be better than a cantrip but worse than inventor unstable actions per example.

Keep in mind that Water reads as significantly better than the other elements. For instance, Tidal Surge is equivalent, but better, to what Fire gets as its 4th level cone in Blazing Wave.

I suspect that this is not an accident. Having a range of power levels for elements is a useful tool for a playtest. Aquakineticists seem to be the high water mark this time around. They get more versatile impulses, earlier, and often just deal more damage (such as getting 1d8 blasts). At a guess, fire is the roughest.

I feel like too many impulses were upgraded to 3-actions simply because at level 19 the class can Gather Element as a free action, and at level 20 there is a feat to reduce 3-action impulses to 2-actions.

This can leave the class very clunky to play for the majority of the game. 3-action spells and abilities are relatively rare for reason, reserved for either flurries of martial actions (often including movement) or spells that affect the battlefield.

I think the class would feel much better without balancing around those late-game action economy bonuses.

I also think that it is a bit of a bummer that you can't Elemental Blast after using an Overflow impulse. It makes more sense to me that you'd need to 'rev the engine' to cast a big overflow spell, rather than killing the engine when you cast one and needing to restart it.

In that sense, Gather Power would empower you till the end of your next turn, but you wouldn't need to reuse it again in combat unless you wanted to rev the engine again or switch elements. You could still use elemental blast of that element, or other impulses.

Air and fire can do this from range and be more accurate than any martial except a flurry ranger or a fighter.

Air basically doesn't have an elemental blast. I can't overstate just how piddly 1d4 physical damage is, even with ranged agile.

Take an Acolyte of Nethys, the first level 1 creature alphabetically. An aerokineticist will deal on average 2.5 damage at ranged, and will hit on a 9, a 13, and a 17. That means the they will deal:

The capstone blasts that take 4 actions aren't particularly competitive at fodder killing, and that isn't even a niche in this game. No group struggles with fodder.

They deal on average around 8d10 in a 20-foot burst (16 squares), for 44 damage. Keep in mind, Electric Arc can be cast twice for the same number of actions, is 50 damage to two targets, and can be cast at a higher DC.

For a huge percentage of the game's encounters, it will be better to use a scaling cantrip than the obvious big blast skills. Many encounters will not have 4+ enemies within 16 squares.

Fire is particularly terrible. They have the following damaging abilities:

POSITIVES
Favorite part of class

The Wuxia theming for the elemental abilities; much better than the plethora of feats named after spells in 1E. As a secondary, the base of elemental stances and starting off with 1/2/6 elements seems very solid to me conceptually.

Initial positive perceptions of the classes theme, feats, and abilities

The ability to do minor manipulations even at level 1 is core to the theme, and this does that better than 1E.

Some of the earlier feats seem pretty close to releasing to print: all the universal level 1 feats, clean as air, wings of air, geologic attunement, stone shield, eternal torch, deflecting wave, tidal hands.

Gather Power and Extract Element seem to do appropriate things with understandable text.

Balance of the class as a whole. For example:

Are the feats appropriate/fun
The universal gate theme is well represented, with ways to switch between elements, interact with the widest array of elementals, and even gather all elements at once or switch up abilities on the fly.

Earth and Air seem to have pretty lock-in identities as a control/melee and utility elements respectfully.

Aura Shaping and many of the auras seem to be unique and potentially quite powerful.

Are perceived weaknesses appropriate for the class? IE you wouldn't complain that a Wizard is physically fragile
​
The lack of expertise with martial weaponry and heavier armor are appropriate (though a class archetype for Kinetic Knight with heavy armor would be very popular).

NEGATIVES

Least favorite part of class

Simply put, the damage numbers. This is the lowest damaging class in the game, below even alchemist. Like the alchemist, investigator, and thaumaturge this class is locked into a lower hit range for its attacks and into 1H weapons. These classes get significant tradeoffs for their lower hit range and weaker weapons.

The alchemist gets persistent and splash damage and now has the the bomb variety to target pretty much any weakness. The investigator can predict critical hits, occasionally swing with Intelligence, and has the fairly large damage boost of studied target. The Thaumaturge has very high damage boosts from weaknesses, and useful effects from implements.

The kineticist gets nothing for its day to day attacks. It cannot easily target weaknesses, even as universal gate, and there is nothing in its base kit that really incentivizes the player to use elemental blasts at all except the requirement of having hands free.

A dedicated gate aerokineticist is particularly in the rough. Nothing in this game is currently locked into 1d4 damage attacks. Elemental Weapon is arguably mandatory for air kineticists just to get a proper 1d8 weapon in their hands, and that still is just getting to the point before where other classes add Rage, Exploit Weakness, Studied Strike, Sneak Attack, or action economy.

The other issue is that it seems most of the damage is locked behind system knowledge and picking the right feats. This goes against 2E philosophy, which puts scaling in the base class and variety in the feats. It seems to me that the damage of a kineticist that takes the best impulses will be much better than the kineticist that doesn't.

Initial negative perceptions of the classes on theme, feats and abilities

It doesn't appear to me the theme of 'wracked by elemental planes' is evident beyond needing CON as a nerf to the main attribute. I'd like to see something add CON to damage, even if isn't always active. For instance, making the first Elemental Blast after Gathering Power gain that damage.

There are a lot of feats that don't really improve the combat capability of the class, either because they aren't oriented to do so or because they are too weak. A short list: Voice of Elements, Blast Barrage, Command Elemental, Whisper on the Wind, Wiles on the Wind, Stepping Stone, Igneogenesis, Eternal Torch, Crawling Fire, Usurp the Lunar Reins. I'd like a second-pass looking at the weak ones, and perhaps making the others skill feats that require the ability to channel an element.

Adapt Element is interesting, but takes entirely too much bookspace for what it does. This is particularly true of its higher level variants. I'd again recommend making these optional skill feats.

Extract Element works fine, for fire. The other 3 (and likely 5) elements are too focused on Bludgeoning or Slashing damage, and will face more enemies resistant to their damage without having an elemental trait. There are 59 creatures with the fire trait, many of which are dragons. There are 28 air creatures, 52 earth (many without resistances to B), and 42 water by my count.

Specific Imbalances of the class. For example:

Are there aspects that would be used excessively?

As written, water is a bit better as a ranged blaster than its counterparts. It gets access to better AoE impulses, and has two decent damage kinetic auras. Tidal Hands is just a better Burning Hands in bludgeoning, while all the other elements struggle to hit cantrip damage.

Chain Blasts and Aura Shaping are both significantly above the average feat for the class, which may say more about the other feats than either of those. Wings of Air is pretty above average for movement skills, effectively giving permanent flight at 8 instead of 17. Speaking of, it is unclear how multiclassing will work for abilities that get stronger by level and all classes could get this at 16.

Gather Amalgamation + Elemental Immunity is immunity to 4 elements, and it isn't fully clear what that means. Even more confusing with wood/metal thrown in.

Broken combos?

Assume Earth's Mantle arguably stacks with Apex items that boost strength, as one is an item bonus and the other is untyped. I doubt that the intention is for kineticists to reach 24 strength.

Aura Shaping and Winter's Clutch creates an up to 30-foot damage field dealing your level in cold damage to any creature forced to enter that field by your movement. This is substantially stronger than most of the overflow + three action feats.

Crowned in tempest's Fury doesn't have a duration.

What is too underpowered? Overpowered?

Underpowered:

manbearscientist wrote:

That said, I'm somewhat skeptical that Elemental Blast is intended to be their core weapon. It certainly isn't scaled that way. It seems that on-demand impulses are supposed to be the main damage, outside of outliers like Chain Blasts.

I don't really buy this. There are several feats that build off Elemental Blast across the level spectrum. They clearly think it is something that can be built towards.

Yes, but once you get those feats it is almost always terrible to use Elemental Blast itself. It is not at all comparable to any martial's attack; it is both less accurate and less damaging. For the first 6 levels of the game Elemental Blast caps out at "deals the same damage as a Sorcerer with a longsword and strength as a secondary stat".

It gets one generally better than martial feat in Cycle Blasts, one equivalent but weaker due to dice/action economy feat in Maelstrom Blast, and two level 18 element specific feats that passively raise the damage up to more respectable levels. Before level 10, I don't think there's an argument that a kineticist using Elemental Blast as their primary thing is going to be competing in the martial olympics in any way.

This will put kineticists attacks at:

Some basic notes:

Con / 8 HP
Nature + 3 Skills
T/E/E/T in Perc/Fort/Ref/Will
Elemental blasts scale off unarmed attack, benefit from handwraps
Blasts deal between 1d4 agile and 1d8 damage, and don't benefit from constitution at all (standard str/dex to hit, str to damage if melee or propulsive)
Choose between more elements and more feats at level 1 (1/3, 2/2, or all/1)
Basic actions from leveling up: Gather Element, Adapt Element, Extract Element (for getting around elementals otherwise immune to you), and 7th and 11th level bonuses to Adapt Element
Gather element isn't a buff or burn reducer, it gives you a clump of elements that you can use for impulses (non-spell magic)
No damage/burn in basic class layout
Fighter-type flexibility feat, letting you pick an 8th or lower feat at 9 and two 14 or lower at 15
No focus point interactions
Not a lot of Constitution interaction

1
Elemental Weapon allow you to make a semipermanent simple or martial 1H weapon
Flexible Blasts lets you add use dexterity for melee elemental blasts or use strength for ranged, reducing MADness.

2
Kinetic Activation lets you activate items
Voice of Elements - So long as you've gathered an element, you can speak the associated language and make requests of mindless elements of that element

4
Blast Barrage >> Impulse to fire 3 Elemental Blasts at different targets; your MAP increases normally. Note that gathering takes 1 action and needs to be done first.
Command Elemental >> - Overflow (lose element) to control or more likely slow an elemental, but ends if you attack said elemental. Mostly worthless against almost anything you can face: does nothing on success, and against a minion level mob (your level - 2) it still only slows if no allies attack the elemental.

6
Cycling Blast > - You Elemental Blast then Gather Element to switch elements. Only available for those with extra elements.
Stoke Element > - Dedicated element only, adds status bonus to damaging impulses (including elemental blast). 2/3/4/5, doubled on overflow.

8
Aura Shaping - Can change shape of auras, and target creatures to make immune.

10
Chain Blasts >> - You can keep hitting enemies within 1 ranged increment of each other, up to 5, with no increase to MAP in the middle. Extremely potent.
Deconstruct Element R - Counterspell
Fusion Blast >> - Add another element's weapon dice to your elemental blast. No other bonuses doubled.

Each element gets a lot of specific feats. Some highlights:

Air - Invisibility, wall of wind, 8th level fly
Earth - Shield, Healing, can get benefit of Apex item to STR at 14 without counting as Apex item (highly doubt this goes to live)
Fire - Level 1 AOE, can create a miniature sun that lightly tickles enemies at 18, easily spreads persistent 3d6 fire that enfeebles
Water - Healing, Wall of Ice, can create damageless pure water field at 18 or make a small amount of difficult terrain in water at 18

To me, there seem to be some pretty big imbalances in later feats and some damage wonkiness. There are a few efficient actions in there, but the baseline damage and accuracy seems to be really low, at a maximum STR/DEX of 16 to start and only 1H weapon scaling.

Alright, I'll try to update these by end of the week. As far as some balancing:

1. Hellflame; I will change this to 3d6 fire with a 1d6 evil rider. The intention was to land roughly around Scorching Rays, but slightly better against good enemies.
2. Strikes/Slam scaling: the physical part scales with striking runes, while the elemental part does not. So major striking would be 4dX + 2d6 elemental

I've updated to incorporate all of these in the new version up on Pathfinder Infinite.

Mythic Powers: A Comprehensive Sourcebook

I've finally released my hopefully final version of a mythic system for Pathfinder 2nd Edition. This product is an evolution of the Mythic Advancement PDF I created a while back, but its not a just rebranding.

I am confident that this product (and some additional resources I will link below) is all any player or GM will need to run mythic content in their games.

What is mythic content? Mythic content is material intended to provide an alternate and additional path for character advancement. Pathfinder 1st Edition created the mythic system somewhat as a replacement for D&D 3.5's Epic Leveling system, which also provided another route of character progression.

This book draws on both of those sources, as well as Owlcat Games's Wrath of the Righteous, which converted the 1E Adventure Path of the same name which a much changed mythic system.

The book creates epic leveling progressions for each currently existing class. It also gives tools every table and resource they need to create campaigns for such characters, including expanding treasure, monster, NPC, and hazard creation tables. Running alternate or variant systems and worried about the ramifications? Each and every one is discussed.

It also gives spellcasters a vast array of new options for their old spells, letting them heighten their spells past level 10 for additional effects.

But this biggest thing I've added for both epic characters and characters playing in 'normal' level ranges is an entirely new system: mythic archetypes.

Like normal archetypes, these allow you to take archetype feats with your class feats after taking the dedication. These run alongside the normal archetype system, representing the source of power your character draws from; taking a mythic archetype does not like you out of taking an archetype or vice versa. There is even a mythic free archetype system.

The 36 new mythic archetypes represent a massive range of potential sources of power. For those not content to simply play 'like' a lich or a dragon, many archetypes even include a high level feat that will allow a player to permanently transform into the source of their power.

For those that liked the mythic paths of 1st Edition, I have also converted each of them to this new system, potentially letting 1st Edition characters with mythic paths be converted to 2nd Edition. I've even added in new archetypes for Primal and Occult spellcasters in the same style as the Archmage and Heirophant. Note that the Champion path became the Martial Master mythic archetype, due to the Champion and its multiclass archetype already existing in 2E.

This book also has many landscapes, character arts, and portraits made by me using secret and arcane techniques to overcome my total lack of artistic talent.

Finally, I'd like to link some very helpful resources I've co-opted, knowing that whatever I made would not be nearly as good.

I'd suggest including a version of Free Archetype that says, in effect, "you get one mythic archetype and X free archetype feats to spend on it at the following levels". Possibly have that variant (or a different one) say that those are the only ways to get feats of those archetypes.

A lot of people really like their class feats, and having the mythic archetype be something they get on top of that is going to feel more satisfying than having it be something they have to take away from their class to get.

Everyone can homebrew, of course, and everyone knows that they can homebrew, but having official variants helps make it feel more solid, especially if you can put a bit of effort (or just knowledge from the system mastery from having written the things) into figuring out what is and is not likely to work.

My recommendation in the book is exactly that! I have a Variant Rule called "Mythic Free Archetype" which works exactly how you'd expect: players get an additional class feat at every even level after first receiving a mythic feat, which they can use only on mythic archetype feats. Normally this would start at level 6 (mythic tier 1 doesn't give a feat; mythic tier 2 is usually offered around level 5), but this could start as soon as level 2 if the GM decides to start players off with a mythic feat to pick a dedication with.

I have been at work trying to create a second version of my mythic rules. Since I started, Pathfinder Infinite has come around and I will try to put my book on that platform for free, though I may have to get creative on art assets or do them myself.

At first, the niche I was intending for mythic rules to fill was that of epic levels. After all, 2E's promise of workable high levels meant that there would soon be people reaching level 20 and wanting more.

However, the main comment I've seen, particularly since Owlcat's Wrath of Righteous came out, is that people also want lower level mythic play or to convert previous mythic characters.

So I've completely updated my system, fleshing out a fully 1-25 (or 1-20!) setup and substantially adding to the new content in the book.

The biggest addition is mythic archetypes. Rather than getting a miserly 3 mythic feats in early levels, characters will now be able to gain an archetype that allows them to take certain feats as class feats. These mythic archetypes do not compete with regular archetypes; they are a source of power, not a profession. However, like other archetypes you must take at least three archetype feats before taking another dedication of the same type. Which means that yes, you can gain power from both dragons and lichs, or both angels and demons.

And boy are there a lot of archetypes. At 40, there are nearly as many as in the entirety of the Advanced Players Guide. Those archetypes include:

Aberration
Aeon
Agathion
Alignment
Angel
Archmage
Archon
Azata
Clockwork
Daemon
Demigod
Demon
Devil
Dragon
Elemental
Ennosite
Fey
Graveknight
Martial Master (based on the Champion path)
Heirophant
Lich
Marshall
Protean
Psychopomp
Rakshasa
Spirits
Sahkil
Swarm-That-Walks
Titan
Trickster
Vampire
Velstrac

I am also considering adding in Ooze and perhaps 1 or 2 other archetypes, though I don't plan to add significantly more content than that. I have also reworked a substantial portion of the mythic feats, changed up Surge, and removed the concept of "points of mythic power" in favor of frequency limits; my playtest revealed that mythic stuff shouldn't be limited to 2 times per day for a large portion of character's lifespan.

Each of these comes with its own modifications of the mythic rules, access to new and old feats, and/or focus spells. Perhaps more enticing to some, many of these also have a new high level feat with a new trait: transformation.

If any of the above interest you (or if you want to know other ways I've adopted the system to play better in lower levels), please ask me anything. I have quite a few awesome thematic aspects; I think each of these archetypes will sufficiently carry their flavor and mechanical promise.

As for the next steps, I am mostly working on editing pass-throughs for spelling, grammar, and formatting. I may or may not splurge to add significant art assets. Aside from this book, I am currently converting Wrath of the Righteous to 2E and making it work with this edition of the mythic rules. I am also working on a mythic bestiary to go with that, including all the creatures needed to run WOTR and quite a few more. My plan is to hopefully release these for free Pathfinder Infinite on all platforms (PDF, phone PDF, ePub, Virtual Tabletop, and Mobi) as well as being available through Pathbuilder (though I'm not sure on the process for that).

Let's take a look at the Inquisitor's 1E class features:

Base: Must be within one step of their deity's
Hit Die: d8
Skill Points: 6 per level
BAB: 3/4
Saves: Good Fort/Bad Ref/Good Will
Spells: 6th level divine, Wisdom based, spontaneous

The closest comparison to this in 1E that has already been converted to 2E is the Warpriest, which differs only that they have only 2 skill points per level and have prepared casting.

This indicates that the Inquisitor might be something that could be incorporated into a Cleric subclass a la Warpriest, but I'm not sure that will hold up with further class features. If this were done, it would likely be the 'skillful' Cleric option to supplement the 'martial' and the 'caster' options.

Going further, they have the following class features:

To me a shifter needs to be a shifting-focused martial class to differentiate itself from Wild Order Druid and a non-angry all shifting class to differentiate itself from Animal Barbarian.

It shouldn't have anathemas, which would help distinguish it from either of those classes. It probably has more to worry about from the Druid side; Druids already have long-term polymorphing and animal related powers and are effectively a martial class when in Battle-Form.

I would say that Shifters should probably focus on the 'shift'. Wild Order Druids tend to Wild Shape and stick to their most effective combat form, while either maintaining a utility form out of combat or staying human. Animal Barbarians tend to be human the vast majority of the time, and only call from one animal and only when they Rage.

It seems to me that the greatest departure would be to focus on more of a Beast Boy style of combat, with some benefit to shifting forms mid-combat. This should be ingrained in the class from level 1, as a core class feature.

For instance:

Wild Shift >
Nature, Polymorph, Transmutation
Parts or all of you take on aspects of an animal. You get a +1 circumstance bonus to your next attack roll, and choose one of the following benefits, which persist till the end of your next turn:

I'll note the the class DC scales with Intelligence, which means Intelligence already interacts with:

As a suggestion for future class playtests, I would really appreciate a template similar to the APG archetypes for additional feat options. It seems like this might save space to test the more mechanically uniquely feats without having to compromise on the meat and potatoes options that don't need playtesting. The Gunslinger, for instance might have:

Additional Feats: 1st Crossbow Ace; 2nd Assisting Shot (Core Rulebook 145), Quick Draw (Core Rulebook 172); 4th Running Reload (Core Rulebook 172); 12th Incredible Ricochet (Core Rulebook 151); 14th Two Weapon Flurry (Core Rulebook 153)

One problem with the Magus feats was that they were really trying to draw on really cool blends between magical feats and martial feats, but also trying to kneecap them to avoid allowing a single-target spell to get multicast (or at least, not without spending multiple turns). Ultimately I came away thinking that they were bludgeoned into clunkiness, but were definitely powerful enough to force you to go about trying to fight through it. And that wasn't necessarily a great feeling.

Rather than getting a Swipe that shoots off a stored spell twice and a Whirlwind Strike that does it as many times as you have enemies, I think I'd like to see something that worked more like Bespell Strikes, in that you don't just get a full spell off per enemy but do get some magical effect. IE:

Magic Swipe >> Feat 6

You make a wide, arcing swing and imbue it with the magical energies of your last spell. Make a single melee Strike (applying the below bonus based on the last spell) and compare the attack roll result to the ACs of up to two foes, each of whom must be within your melee reach and adjacent to the other. Roll damage only once and apply it to each creature you hit. A Magic Swipe counts as two attacks for your multiple attack penalty, and you cannot apply the benefits of Striking Spell to this attack. If you’re using a weapon with the sweep trait, its modifier applies to all your Magic Swipe attacks. Your Magic Swipe gets a bonus based on the last spell you cast:

Abjuration You deal an extra 1d6 force damage.
Conjuration or Transmutation You deal an extra 1d6 damage of the type the Strike would deal.
Divination You have a +1 circumstance bonus on your attack roll.
Enchantment or Illusion You deal an extra 1d6 mental damage.
Evocation You deal an extra 1d6 fire damage.
Necromancy You gain 5 temporary Hit Points for each enemy you strike.

This would make these a little less tied to the Striking spell mechanic, and would help the Magus have satisfying turns alternating between casting a spell and doing a cool martially thing augmented by the spell you cast the previous turn. Or using 1-action cantrips (which would make the class a lot less clunky).

For reference, the Summoner pretty clearly gets its name/mechanic from Final Fantasy IV. In that game, Summoners and summoned monsters had a pretty important role in the story and summoned monsters were called Eidolons in the Nintendo DS release.

So the allusion was never to D&D summoning, but to FFIV summoning. There was some crossover, but key concept of the class was always pretty far away from the concepts many player brought to it from the pen and paper world. This is also where the 'if the Eidolon dies, so does the Summoner" mechanic comes from.

In this book, the difference between the D&D concept of 'summoning' and the Pathfinder/FFIV 'Summoner/Eidolon' grew even farther apart. But I hope that this explains the logic behind why the Summoner was/is called the Summoner and why it doesn't match terms that originated from D&D. God-Callers directly ape this; Summoners were also called Callers in the FF world.

Is there enough interest for a small mythic bestiary (10ish for lower level mythic adventures a la 1E, 30-50 for higher levels)? What sorts of creatures would people like to see?

For a Kaiju statblock, here's Varklops (path: brute)

Varklops Creature 30
Unique CE Gargantuan Beast Fire Kaiju
Perception +53; darkvision, tremorsense (imprecise) 300 feet
Languages Ignan; Can't speak any language
Skills Acrobatics +53, Athletics +57
Str +17, Dex +10, Con +16, Int -4, Wis +10, Cha +8

AC 61 Fort +57, Ref +44, Will +45, +2 status bonus to all saves vs magic
HP 700 (fast healing 70); Immunities clumsy, disease, drained, enfeebled, fire, frightened, paralyzed, petrified, poison, polymorph, stupefied; Resistances physical 30, acid 30, electricity 30, negative energy 30, sonic 30
Weaknesses cold 30
Massive - Varklops can only be flanked by Huge or larger foes.
Inexorable Varklops recovers from the slowed and stunned conditions at the end of its turn. It’s also immune to penalties to its Speeds, and it ignores difficult terrain and greater difficult terrain.
Multiple Opportunities - Varklops gains two additional reactions each turn that can only be used for attack of opportunity.
Distracted When Outnumbered - While Varklops is furiously focused on slaying kaiju, his rudimentary intellect supports a surprisingly powerful and inflated sense of selfworth that crumbles when he faces overwhelming odds. In any combat round that involves two allied kaiju focusing their efforts against him, Varklops loses his kaijuslayer ability and becomes so distracted by which target to focus on that he must succeed at flat check of a 15 or become stunned 1 for that round. Non-kaiju cannot distract Varklops in this manner, even if the non-kaiju is similar in size to a kaiju.
Recovery (F) - Frequency Once per year Trigger Varklops would be reduced to 0 Hit Points Effect Varklops heals 200 Hit Points and ends all persistent damage it is suffering, but gains sickened 2 and fleeing. Any amount of damage dealt to it by an external source before it reaches its lair, though, immediately negates the sickened and fleeing conditions and allows Varklops to end its retreat and attack.
Attack of Opportunity (R)
Deflect Cold (R) - Trigger Varklops would take cold damage Effect Varklops shields himself from a cold attack by reflexively curling his wings around himself. When he uses this ability, all cold damage from that particular attack is ignored. At Varklops’s discretion, he can deflect the cold damage to any single adjacent creature, which is then instead treated as the target of the cold attack. If the cold attack was an area effect that also affected the adjacent creature, that creature does not take the cold damage twice, but does need to attempt two saving throws (if applicable) against the effect, taking the worse of the two results as the actual result and Deflect Cold gains the misfortune trait.
Mythic power (14th) - 10 uses

Speed 80 feet, burrow 60 feet, fly 200 feet
Melee > jaws +52 (chaotic, evil, magical, reach 30 feet) Damage 5d12+30 piercing plus 5d6 persistent fire damage and Hurl Foe
Melee > wings +52 (agile, chaotic, evil, magical, reach 30 feet) Damage 5d11+30 bludgeoning plus Hurl Foe
Melee > tail +52 (chaotic, evil, magical, reach 40 feet) Damage 5d12+30 piercing plus Hurl Foe
Ranged > fire bolt +52 (brutal, chaotic, evil, magical, range increment 300 feet) Damage 4d12+30 fire damage plus 5d6 persistent fire damage
Destructive Frenzy >>> Varklops makes three jaws Strikes, two wing Strikes, and one tail Strike in any order. .
Trample >>> Huge or smaller, wings, DC 55.
Breath Weapon >> Frequency once per 4 rounds Each of Varklops’s three heads can exhale a blast of searing fire and billowing ash, dealing 30d6 fire damage in a 1,200-foot line (DC 59 basic Reflex save) once every 4 rounds. Each head’s breath weapon is a separate attack with its own 4-round recharge period. Any creature that takes damage also takes 5d6 persistent fire damage.
Eruption >>> Requirements Varklops has burrowed underground and is within 60 of the surface Effect Varklops Burrows upward, and then deals 15d6 fire and 15d6 bludgeoning damage (DC 59 basic Reflex save) that knocks Huge or smaller creatures prone unless they have a success on their save. Any creature that takes damage also takes 5d6 persistent fire damage. The area is obscured for 1 minute as per fog.
Fire Monsoon >>> Varklops expends 2 uses of mythic power, and then flies up to twice his fly Speed. All creatures he passes over in flight take 30d6 fire damage (DC 59 basic reflex save). Any creature that takes damage also takes 5d6 persistent fire damage. The area he passes remains on fire, dealing 5d6 fire damage to any who enter or start their turns in those squares for the next minute.
Hurl Foe (F) Varklops knocks a creature back 20 feet. If he pushs the target into an obstacle, it takes 30 bludgeoning damage.
Kaijuslayer (F) Varklops spends 1 point of mythic power and targets a kaiju. Until the end of Varklop's turn, Varklops ignores that Kaiju's resistances to fire and physical damage. If they are immune to fire damage, they instead take half damage from any of Varklop's fire abilities.
Devastating Smash >
Surge F

This link should work.

This 86 page homebrew book, Mythic Advancement, is all about extending Pathfinder Second Edition's gameplay beyond level 20 to the new mythic level range of 21 to 25. D&D 3.5 players may recall a similar approach called 'Epic Levels', but unlike these rules and the mythic system from 1st Edition Pathfinder, this book attempts to create a balanced extension of 2nd Edition Pathfinder's balanced math and functional action economy (I.E., still be just as playable as a game as earlier levels of 2nd Edition).

It contains:

Megistone wrote:

In PF1 it comes back the next day with half HP.

Do you really want that?

More so than what is being offered now?

Yes

At least a 10 minute cool down after the Eidolon dies is required.

I think I'd prefer it to come back on 1 HP

Out of combat healing has been made cheap in PF2 and that has consequences. I don't disagree with that from a gameplay point of view. But it has an impact on this.

The next day portion of that is the important part, not the half HP part. I don't think any such delay would work well in a game where most classes can get back up to their adventuring day in a few minute.

actually if you check this forum, its contentious if you can actually use staves.

Just to be clear, it is unclear if you can use lower-level spells from staves without Trick Magic Item, multiclass spellcasting, or Martial Caster. All of the above do let you use staves to cast spells (and I imagine it is the rare Magus without either a multiclass dedication or Martial Caster).

Summoners have it more rough, but also have less reason to use a stave as they don't really as much on spells.

Everybody's feedback is anecdotal, but some of us have actually calculated real subsets of data to further support how vulnerable Summoner is. That's why you'll see posts illustrating that Summoner takes roughly 20% more damage or x1.2 more damage than other classes on average before factoring in disadvantage rolls to help visualize how Summoner's vulnerabilities manifest in real play.

Not to dispute the damage numbers, but I do think it is important to note that they have more opportunities to benefit from in-combat healing. This alone can lend to radically different playtest experiences, as a party with a Champion, a healing font Cleric, and a Battle Medicine Monk might benefit more from the multiple bodies than be hurt by it. The opposite might be true of a Wizard, Rogue, Barbarian, Summoner party.

Summoner is the most vulnerable class to play, it has a survivability problem, it takes more damage on average than any other class without the support for that type of playstyle. This is indisputable from 2e Summoner.

That's not the entire point and the Summoner has much worse survivability than other classes at the table. You've not offered any solutions for this problem.
Any real solutions anybody else has offered have been shot down because "Well we don't want the Summoner to have more HP than a Barbarian without Rage so it can function well, that makes it look bad." or "Yeah that solution would work, keep things simple, and fix most problems Summoner currently has but i don't like that Summoner has to keep track of 1 extra HP bar :/"

It is not a level-playing field and we've repeatedly been over this but again, you seem to consider me or any number of the other people who have spoken about their playtest experience being adverse to yours as "unacceptable" or "unjustified criticism" simply because you want to relegate those people to not matter.

Summoner has a survivability problem, it's mainly caused by the shared HP Pool mechanic of 2e.
There are ways to fix it and keep...

The shared HP pool is not the cause of the survivability problem. The existence of the pool and the amount of life in it are separate things.

I could make the summoner a 100 HP per level class (no type); it would still have a shared HP pool but now it is virtually unkillable.

If the plural of anecdotes show that the summoner does have a general survivability problem, then logically we can assume that there is a 'healthy' range of HP for the Shared HP pool to work. I.E., if the current HP is too low and 100 HP is too high, there must be some value in between that is 'just right'.

Given that the mechanic can be decoupled from values prescribed to it, is it not more beneficial to talk about the qualitative issues with Shared HP if those were an issue rather than this specific implementation? Which is to say, if you don't like the flavor or disadvantage on saves, talk about those separately because survivability alone won't be enough of a reason to change shared HP. Even something as simple as "it feels bad to be attacked multiple times per turn in different places" is valuable data independent of whether it impacts the overall survivability of the class.

I'll note that your playtest experiences are valid and valued, but they are still anecdotal. It will only be frustrating for all involved to talk about your experiences as 'the truth', as there can be many truths at many tables, for many different reasons. Some might use Reinforce Eidolon more, or take more advantage of healing, or face fewer scenarios with large numbers of enemies. Even something as simple as running a homebrew map versus an AP can warp experiences, as APs tend to be claustrophobic with fewer enemies per encounter and more hazards and traps.

Make sure to submit your playtest experience and your data as straightforward as possible; that is the best way to head towards a better value for HP or to find a better qualitative solution for life link. Together, our subjective experiences will merge into something resembled objective data that can be used to improve the class.

I think the proper way to address the perceived weakness in HP is to playtest the class and see if the summoner is actually going down at an unreasonable rate.

Without playtesting, I don't think it is very beneficial to try to address a theoretical issue. That would be starting from an assumption, which can lead to mistakes in balancing.

It is impossible to totally account for the differences between groups, encounters, playstyles, and maps. Theorycrafting around hostile GMs on flat featureless plains is useful for one data point, but playtesting experience can figure out the nitty gritty details that might be lost in theoretical spaces (assume cows are frictionless spheres).

For instance, some groups might find that easier healing comes up more than multitargeting. Others might have barbarian multiclass summoners that drop in one round. Others still might fight only in cramped environments and have the summoner always behind walls using Share Senses and Boost Eidolon.

This also captures the 'feeling' of playing a class, which is shaped by initial impressions but can differ from them. Shared HP might feel good, because it requires less tracking, or bad because it sucks to be targeted multiple times per round and drain the same resource. Or both simultaneously to two different summoners.

Personally, I would prefer the Summoner to stay at 10 class HP, and add the Eidolon's constitution modifier or ancestry HP to the total. I think it is good game design for the barbarian to be alone at 12 HP, and I mostly worry about level 1 survivability. But that's just an initial impression, and needs data to back up the need.

The problem with this is that none of the feats improve the power of the Eidolon. All they do is increase the versatility of the Eidolon. Like.. I can get aquatic traits, climbing, faster Eidolon, etc. Nothing that really improves -power-

I don't think this is a problem. Giving them purely power fixing feats might adjust the overall power of the class closer to expectations, but it introduces other issues that should be avoided if possible.

These include:

Just as an aside, a Summoner can get an Animal Companion with the same exact investments any other class would make, thanks to Beastmaster Dedication.

Which is to say, a Beastmaster Summoner can easily have an effective 6 actions, and possibly as many as 7 without much effort: Act Together (2x), Tandem Move (2x) Animal Companion independent, Spare Action, quickened action from Haste.

Is that viable? I guess I'll find out, as that is a build one of my players wants to explore. One thing I've noted is that in narrow, close quarters combat the Summoner is effectively a moving wall of flesh. It is hard to get around two Large bodies (plus we have another animal companion as well), even if the Summoner is mounted. The backline is really hard to approach, and even ranged attacks tend to have lesser cover.

This is a Primal Summoner, and they will pretty much be fine using Heal for their spells as it is likely to hit a ton of party members and companions.

manbearscientist wrote:

graystone wrote:

But is still can't access 3 action activities so it really isn't 4 actions per round free and clear. A caster with an animal companion at mature CAN do a 3 action activity while the companion does an action.

I would recommend using the 1-to-3 action variant Mark Seifter talked about. That frees up a decent portion of the action economy issues.

I'll be happy to use it when it becomes an official change. Until then, it's not part of the playtest.

I believe that any GM running a game using playtest elements has to keep their players as their first priority, not Paizo. I understand that you've struck a hard line regarding strict textualism, but I'd argue that such a position isn't a great fit for many tables.

Sure, it pollutes the data slightly. I will be using the 1-to-3 action variant and explaining that I did so in my playtest notes. Fundamentally, I am still organizing a game of Pathfinder and trying to make it fun for my players. If a simple change discussed by a developer provides tremendous quality of life improvements to my table, I will consider using it to make the game more fun to player that put their time and energy into playtesting a class.

I think the benefits of such actions far outweigh the downsides, and I would recommend similar approaches to other GMs.

But is still can't access 3 action activities so it really isn't 4 actions per round free and clear. A caster with an animal companion at mature CAN do a 3 action activity while the companion does an action.

I would recommend using the 1-to-3 action variant Mark Seifter talked about. That frees up a decent portion of the action economy issues.

In this case, the issue is the summoner getting attacked, not the summon. Even 1E life link only worked one way.

The issue many have had is that the Summoner is likely to be targeted by intelligent enemies. But delinking the HP doesn't make that any better, as a single intelligent boss monster could easily take out a low HP Summoner and ignore the Eidolon.

One advantage of the Shared HP pool came into play during my last playtest. In an environment with a decent amount of non-combat healing, having a higher bulk HP can prevent a player from going down early especially due to focusing by a boss.

One player was playing a Druid with animal companion, and had around 80ish Hit Points, versus a +3 boss. They ended up getting focused, and a lucky critical hit brought them very close to going down despite starting with near full health for the encounter.

They are considered a move to a beast summoner instead, as it would play well with their backstory. Had they done that, they'd have had substantially more life to play with. A single turn of hard focus from a boss wouldn't be enough to drop them even with a lucky critical hit. They'd have been able to justify sticking to melee for another turn if they had additional Hit Points, rather than using their turn to get out of range and heal.

Had they been playing a 6 HP per level class with a 6-8 HP per level Eidolon that demanifested when unconscious, they would have gone down and the fight probably would have been lost. This is even worse than just being an 8 HP druid in that scenario, as not only class HP important to survive but the animal companion can still act a little while he's dropped.

I don't think you'll get shared HP discontinued because it would work better for some evil Summoners. Evil player characters are already relatively fringe (banned in PFS, not allowed at many tables), to the point that evil Champions weren't even included in the CRB.

Instead of forcing a non-optional mechanic change on ALL Summoners to make it play more nicely with evil characters (the exact thing you are complaining about happening in opposite direction), it is probably far easier to justify adding a feat that allows you to get around the Shared HP pool at the cost of a reaction.

Example:

Sacrificial Eidolon (Reaction) Level 1
Summoner
Trigger - Your Eidolon would take damage that would reduce your shared Hit Points to 0.
You demanifest the Eidolon, and avoid taking damage. This does not prevent damage that would affect both you and Eidolon. The next time you manifest the Eidolon, you take damage equal to half your hit points, rounded up.

Note that the above isn't tagged Evil. There is no reason to force a thematic concept on this idea, or even summoning fiends. A good character might have a character concept where they are linked to a fiend trying to corrupt them towards evil. An evil character might summon a beast or angel and force them to do their bidding. And a sacrifice as per the above could be justified either through heroic (sacrificing themselves to save you) or evil (sacrificial pawns forced to their doom for your benefit) grounds.

Not to be pedantic, but proteans are represented as a type of monitors per the 2E bestiary, and monitors are one of the missing types mentioned in the playtest document.

Source:

Protean - A family of monitors spawned within the Maelstrom, these creatures are guardians of disorder and are chaotic neutral. They typically have darkvision, an amorphous anatomy, and a weakness to lawful damage.

RANGED EVOLUTION

EVOLUTION SUMMONER
Your eidolon has developed a ranged attack. Your eidolon
gains a ranged unarmed attack with a range increment of
30 feet that deals 1d6 damage and has the magical trait.
When you select this feat, choose a damage type from
acid, bludgeoning, cold, electricity, fire, negative, piercing,
positive, or slashing. If your eidolon is a celestial, fiend,
or monitor [emphasis mine] with an alignment other than true neutral, you
can instead choose a damage type in their alignment (for
example, you could choose good or lawful if your lawful good
angel eidolon gained this attack).

To expand on the idea of the archetype feats, here are some examples of how that could be formatted to get around common issues:

1: Class/Proficiency Restricted

Choose a multiclass dedication feat from the following classes: barbarian, bard, champion, cleric, druid, fighter, oracle, ranger, rogue, sorcerer, swashbuckler, or wizard. You gain that feat, except that it gains the evolution trait and its effects apply only to your Eidolon. The Eidolon cannot gain weapon proficiency from these feats, and you gain any focus spells granted by this archetype even though it has the evolution trait.

Special: You can take additional feats from the chosen archetype. If you possess the archetype dedication feat without the evolution feat, you choose whether or not these feats gain the evolution trait. If not, they gain the evolution trait. The Eidolon cannot gain weapon proficiency from these feats, but gains all other benefits including passive benefits and access to any action granted by said feats.

2: Expanded out to certain specific archetypes

Choose a dedication feat from the follow archetypes: [multiclass archetypes], archer, blessed one, assassin, bastion, dual-weapon warrior, duelist, marshal, martial artist, mauler, poisoner, or scout. The Eidolon cannot gain weapon proficiency from these feats, but can treat their unarmed attacks as weapons for the purposing of accessing and using feats from these archetypes. They can use their primary attack to access feats requiring either a two-handed melee weapon or a one-handed melee weapon with one hand free. They must have a ranged unarmed attack to access feats that would require a ranged weapon with reload 0. You gain any focus spells granted by this archetype even though it has the evolution trait.

Special: You can take additional feats from the chosen archetype. If you possess the archetype dedication feat without the evolution feat, you choose whether or not these feats gain the evolution trait. If not, they gain the evolution trait. The Eidolon cannot gain weapon proficiency from these feats, but gains all other benefits including passive benefits and access to any action granted by said feats.

3. Not directly an archetype.

Choose one of the following. Your Eidolon gains the associated benefits:

Alchemist - Trained in Crafting. Can make 4 common level 1 alchemical items per day for free (later feat for more).
Barbarian - Trained in Athletics. > Rage. Instinct choice.
Bard - Trained in Performance. 1 cantrip, 1st level occult innate spell. Later feats for more spells and Inspire Courage.
Champion - Trained in Religion. R: Champion's Reaction.
Cleric- Trained in Religion. 1 cantrip, 1st level divine innate spell. Later feats for more spells, 1/day Divine Font.
Druid - Trained in Nature. 1 cantrip, 1st level primal innate spell. Later feats for more spells and 1/day Wild Shape.
Fighter - Trained in Athletics. R: Attack of Opportunity.
Investigator - Trained in an Intelligence skill. > Devise a Stratagem
Monk - Trained in Athletics. >> Make three unarmed Strikes
Oracle - Trained in Religion. 1 cantrip, 1st level divine innate spell. Later feats for more spells and 1/day curse ability.
Ranger - Trained in Survival. > Hunt Prey, > Twin Takedown.
Rogue - Trained in Stealth, Thievery. Sneak Attack.
Sorcerer - Trained in tradition's skill. 1 cantrip, 1st level innate spell. Later feats for more spells and 1/day bloodline power.
Swashbuckler - Trained in Acrobatics. Panache, Finishing Precision
Witch - Trained in tradition's skill. 1 cantrip, 1st level innate spell. Later feats for more spells and cantrip hex.
Wizard - Trained in Arcana. 1 cantrip, 1st level innate arcane spell. Later feats for more spells and school power.

4: Even less of an archetype:

Choose one of the following. Your Eidolon gains access to the chosen ability.

Attack of Opportunity
Double Slice (equivalent)
Rage
Champion's Reaction
Sneak Attack
Devise a Stratagem

Special: You can choose this feat multiple times. Pick a different ability each time.

5: Spellcasting Archetype alternative

You Eidolon can use the Cast a Spell activity and becomes trained in their tradition's skill. They gain 2 cantrips and the basic spellcasting benefits except that instead of gaining spell slots, they gain an equivalent number of innate spells that can be chosen from their tradition's list during the summoner's daily preparation.

Additional feats for expert and master spellcasting with similar verbage.

I ran a session with a Magus in my last session. The session was a mix of exploration with two potential combat encounters.

The Magus (free archetype):
19/14/14/18/10/10
Human-Versatile|Natural Ambition/Generalist
Toughness/Fleet/Incredible Initiative
Free Archetype (Wizard)
1: Familiar
2: Spirit Sheathe/Wizard Dedication
4: Spell Parry/Basic Wizard Spellcasting
6: Martial Caster/Arcane School Spell (Force Bolt)
Weapon: +1 striking staff of divination (flaming rune)
Synthesis: Sustaining Steel
Spells:
1-True Strike (6 counting Staff), Fleet Step (2)
2-Mirror Image (1)
3-Haste (1), Shocking Grasp (1)
4-Acid Arrow(1), Phantasmal Killer (1)

Party:

Manbearscientist. PF2 is built on each class having tokens with a few left over for class paths.

Martials spend all their tokens defenses and damage. Casters spend all their tokens on spells. Summoners in theme should have the choice to pick were they spend their token: Their Eidolon or Summoned Monsters.

The best route for that is a subclass choice, which is definitely how I'd like to see the class go. It is pretty obvious that there are three main playstyles that people want represented: summoning as a focus, the Eidolon as a focus, and the Synthesist.