khx7's page

Since the release of the gunslinger and alchemist class, I’ve been desperately hoping for some sort of character option that’d allow me to play the ultimate steampunk hero who blends their accuracy with an experimental weapon with plenty of strange concoctions and arcane bombs. This is too hard for the archetype system. It can’t be done.

Since reading the cool Summoner class abilities for fighting mounted on, or next to, their eidolon, I’ve dreamt of Summoner-Knights who eschew their summoner abilities to train as summoning cavaliers. This is too hard for the archetype system. At least how the archetype system is working at the moment.

I've noticed that this issue hasn't really been discussed much, and I think this was one of the big problems that Kestler was trying to point out about the archetype system. It just can't make hybrid classes well, and I would have to agree.

Archetypes put a spin on a core class. They allow players to add extra flavor, or specialization to their character. They can be fun, and I am totally fine with how they are. But they can't let me to be two classes at once, PrC's can. The Arcane Archer, Arcane Trickster, Eldritch Knight, Mystic Theuge, Battle Herald, and Rage Prophet are what I'm looking for in a PrC most of the time. They're fusions; completely new character concepts that give me a larger variety of things to do without making me more or less powerful than my other party members.

I love hybrid class PrC's and think that there should be a lot more of them. I also understand the idea of balance. Many of my experiences in the past decade with PrC's have been about mixing and mashing for the greatest possible effect, and using that ridiculous bonus to be nigh unstoppable in whatever it was you specialized in. And to be honest feats are practically the same, and sometimes worse for doing that (but thats a discussion for another time). There is nothing wrong with making a character like that as long as everyone is doing it as well and the GM is fully prepared for that kind of ludicrous game. If that's not the case then it's just not going to be fun for anyone in the end, and that's usually what happens. Hybrid PrC's tend not to do this in my experience, and they are my favorite kind of PrC. Thats why I would like to see more of them.

TL/DR: Archetype system is fine, but it can't give me class hybrids, so I want to see more hybrid class PrC's, and I don't think that would unbalance the game.

It's seems to me like an arbitrary ruling, considering Sorcerers and Wizards are balanced to begin with, and the fact that without this change in the rules there is nothing saying they don't get the two free spells per level. The Mystic Theurge Spells per Day class feature doesn't say that it only affects the Spells class feature; in fact it says that it affects ALL abilities that determine spells per day, spells known, and caster level. After having read the wording for Sorcerer and Wizard is see virtually no difference:
Sorcerer "At each new sorcerer level, she gains one or more new spells, as indicated on Table 3–15."
Wizard "At each new wizard level, he gains two new spells of any spell level or levels that he can cast (based on his new wizard level) from his spellbook."

I see no reason why this ruling was made other than to make it slightly harder on Wizards which seem rather pointless, and since the classes were balanced to begin with why change it when you reach a prestige class.

Aren't those benefits supernatural or extraordinary in origin? Guns aren't magical.

Nature Bond is an EX ability, so is Armor Training, Fast Movement, Evasion, and Flurry of Blows those aren't magical either. What's your point?

Anyone can train an animal, or with a +5, a non-animal. Your character can raise and train a dragon if they put enough points into handle animal. Neither of you gain the benefits of an animal companion.

And that was my point, what's so special about an Animal Companion. The only reason my character can't have one is because they aren't a Druid or a Ranger, and even if he did level dip to get one it won't get any stronger unless i take more levels in Druid.

I think, as far as game mechanics go, there are a few problems with class abilities in general. For instance why can't my Ranger or Rouge get Armor Training or Weapon Training how does the Fighter "train" differently? Why can't my Barbarian use Sneak Attack is there a technique that only Rouges can learn? Why can't my Fighter get an Animal Companion? Why do class skills even exist, should my character decide what he can be good at?

These limitations are used to have a variety for players, and it seems one of the issues is that a gun is a weapon and as such should be accessible to anyone, but i disagree. By a similar reasoning an Animal Companion should be accessible to anyone as well, what technique do i have to know? Can i learn that technique through Feats? You can't because it's "Magic"? Well if i called a gun "Science" could that make it a Gunslinger exclusive class feature? The Alchemist already has "Science" to some extent.

Another problem is that your trying to apply now-a-days knowledge to a Fantasy rpg, a High Fantasy rpg to be exact. This is a problem, we don't explain how the monk can do all the things he can do, we don't explain how a Barbarian can break a wall down in a single blow when the same strike wouldn't kill a Fighter. There are things that just aren't brought up, so why try to force guns to be Ultra-Realistic? The Fighter doesn't have to be the best with any weapon you can think up, just Archaic ones, beyond that they just get too "Finicky" for him. He also doesn't have the patience for spells or the finesse for hitting those "weak" spots, or the sage like discipline for meditation.