Treant

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I want to reiterate my gratitude to all of you. I could only afford one striking rune, so it went on Dumas' pistol ... holy crap did that make a "critical" difference!

What I like to think I would do as a DM is use the ABP and then get creative on magic items. "This sword always points east when you drop it. This hammer plays a chord when it hits metal; each note in the chord corresponds to a different metal. This trident can summon fish to fight for you." Okay, the last one came from an AD&D adventure in 1988 and could use some work.


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I have a great idea for a dungeon adventure for my group. I would love to get advice and insights from the brilliant folks on this board, especially in making the encounters feel interesting and fresh.

The Party
Five or six level 7 characters: Fighter, Ranger, Rogue, Cleric, Wizard and Cavalier. They aren’t very optimized except maybe the cavalier. They haven’t really been challenged in a while and I want to give them a chance to stretch themselves without killing them.

The Hook/Railroad:
Ten thousand years ago, powerful spellcasters hid and protected the McGuffin to save the world. Now, the situation has changed and the party has to retrieve it to save the world.

The Twist:
The spellcasters bound a powerful Devil to protect the McGuffin. It turns out that ten thousand years of solitary confinement is not healthy, even for immortal beings like a devil. As the party descends into the dungeon, it will see evidence of the devil’s descent into madness. The devil desperately wishes to return to the Plane of Hell but is bound to secure the McGuffin in this plane; its insanity is the key for the party to achieve its goal against a foe it could never face in combat.

The Flavor:
There are five sequential rooms. The devil was tasked with designing the defenses, but after setting up triggered summonings in the rooms, he got bored. He attempted to hold boredom at bay by taking up art; both painting and sculpture. It was effective for some time, but not for this long.
Room One has beautiful stark landscapes painted on the walls with such verisimilitude that observers momentarily think they are standing in a broad plain. The terrain is bleak and foreboding with a winding river leading to a towering and intimidating city in the hills. Despite the austerity, the view is beautiful; think of Ansel Adams’ photographs of the desert. The homesickness of the artist permeates the work.
Room Two captures the view in front of the city gates that were in the distance of the previous room’s picture. The devil has taken up sculpture in this room. The city gates are wrought from iron and twisted into gruesome shapes warning the arriving souls of what awaits. A staggering mob of damned souls are arrayed before the gates, their faces capturing their agony and fear of their fate. A self-portrait statue of the devil towers over the march of the damned, swinging a barbed whip over its head. Think of Rodin’s Gates of Hell and similar works, except the statues have been painted to look lifelike. It takes an inspection by the party to determine that they are all wrought from iron and stone. The pride the devil takes in inflicting damnation permeates the scene.
Room Three represents a room inside the first level of Hell and gives the first indications of the artist’s diminishing sanity. The floor is riddled with real boiling pools of sulphured water. The walls are covered in images of damned souls performing their pointless eternal tasks, from smashing rocks to carrying loads. The realism of the previous rooms has begun to fade. The dimensions of the caverns seem warped and disorienting, which is only augmented by the distortion of the steam from the pools. Think of Salvador Dali painting the Guernica. The artist appears to have some sympathy for the mortals trapped in a place they cannot escape and tied to a task they resent.
Room Four is a ruined mess. In places on the wall, the party can see images of deeper levels of Hell painted in the Dali-esque style of the previous room, but burn marks sear the walls erasing most of the painting. The statues that were once carved in the room have been smashed into pieces or melted into blobs. A line of permanent flames swoop over the wall behind the party’s entrance writing ‘F**K ASMODEUS” in Infernal.
Room Five is where the devil has withdrawn permanently. He can’t bring himself to enter the first three rooms, lest he destroy that artwork in a fit of madness and the fourth room only escalates the madness. The walls of this room are covered in sketches of the earlier works and half made statues litter the ground. Graffiti covers everything, saying in Infernal, “Why am I here?”, “Why must I keep what I don’t want?”, “How do I go home?” If the party gets the chance to inspect, they will also find investigations into the spells which bind the devil, maybe offering a way to break them.
The devil is former Duke of Hell who discovered how fickle was the loyalty to him when he was yanked into the Material Plane and bound to these five rooms. Asmodeus has declined to reward the former Duke’s service by organizing a rescue and the creatures he could summon weren’t powerful enough. The key to this encounter is that the devil has been sooooo bored for so long that he wants to toy with the party rather than kill them. He might show them the McGuffin to taunt them. His binding is tied to chains that he wears. His insanity will allow him to accidentally drop hints to the party about how to break the chain despite being commanded otherwise by the ancient spellcasters that captured him.

The Game Flow:
The party loves to do the “one battle a day” routine. I want to push them by design, so that I will be impervious to their machinations to camp and rest. For this reason, the sequence in each room will be:
*Entry door stays opens for 10 minutes
*Entry door closes. If there are any living beings in the room, summoned creatures/beings appear.
*Both doors closed for 10 minutes. (Combat likely)
*Exit door opens and stays open for 10 minutes (this is also the entry door the next room)
*Exit door closes
*Both doors closed for minutes
*Repeat
If the party stays in the room to rest, the summoned creatures will re-appear. If the creatures are intelligent, they remember the party and can adjust tactics accordingly. If the party retreats back out, they have to go through all the fights again.

Request For Help
I am most eager for guidance on designing the encounters in each room. I am looking for suggestions on what could be summoned that would make interesting opposition and keep the infernal theme.
In an ideal world, I would put lesser devils accompanied by some imps in the first rooms, but the party is too low level. They can probably survive a Bearded Devil or two, but a Bone Devil or a Fury would probably be too much. Maybe I can apply templates to Imps to make them a better challenge to level 7 characters? Or interesting tactics?


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I was looking into 1 level dips for a prospective fighter and realized that the martial classes are somewhat front loaded. Which led to ...

Dipso was a Barbarian out of the north when he arrived in so-called civilization and fell in with a band of adventurers.

In between the kobold killing that is required by all first level characters, he drank a little too much of the too strong city-booze and found himself in a lot of fist fights. His second level came in Brawler.

Freed from the restrictions of first level, the party delved underground in search of treasure and glory. Dipso found that his rage resonated in the deep caverns. His third level came in Bloodrager (Earth Elemental Bloodline - Blood Conduit).

The party's quest carried them into the wilderness where Dipso's affinity for animals awakened. His fourth level came in Ranger (Wild Hunter)

A near TPK in the final boss fight revealed how Dipso felt about his comrades. The discovery of mithril plate in the hoard only reinforced his desire to protect the party. His fifth level came in Cavalier (Order of the Dragon - Standard Bearer).

All this dabbling still left Dipso unfulfilled and he finally followed his natural affinity with sixth and later levels in fighter.

I did a sixth level build for Dipso using a 20 point buy and the Unchained Automatic Bonus Progression.
Human 1 Barb/ 1 Brawl / 1 Bloodrager / 1 Cav / 1 Rang / 1 Fighter
Str 19, Dex/Con 14, Int/Wis/Cha 10
HP 55, AC 23, Move 40, Fort +15, Ref +7, Will +1 (Yikes!)
Lots of class skills
Threatens out to 10' with reach weapon and unarmed strike
Optional abilities:
Animal Focus 1 min/day (+2 Str usually)
Rage/Bloodrage 8 times/day
Elemental Strike ( +1d6 damage) 3 times/day
Dragon's Challenge 1 time/day
Martial Flexibility (pick a feat for a minute) 4 times/day
Tactician Outflank (+4 flank bonus 1/day)

Plus the usual feats of weapon focus, power attack, combat reflexes etc.
The bloodrager gives him Improved Trip without the feat tax of Combat Expertise.

I chose the archetypes for these reasons:
Blood Conduit - move bonus shouldn't stack (Hero Lab messed that up), so traded for free feat
Wild Hunter - I dislike favored enemy for rangers. A versatile bonus to strength, climb, darkvision etc. seems much nicer.
Standard Bearer - I don't want to add the complication of a mount. This gives something in its place.

Questions:
Other than the abyssmal will save, what other deficiencies does he have relative to 6th level fighter or 5/1 fighter/X?

Do you have recommendations for other archetypes or class choices?

Do you agree that this would be much more fun than a vanilla fighter?

I also looked into Dispo's Lawful Good cousin Diparino, with Unchained Monk and Paladin in place of the barbarian/bloodrager, but the low mental stats were much more limiting.


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Thank you all for some great insights.

I think the way I have played is closest to what PossibleCabbage said ... I was usually ignoring my character's race, occasionally playing up the stereotype or sometimes trying to invert the stereotype.
In the end, I have largely fallen back on playing humans like Mr Pitt. I appreciate the ability to write any backstory and have it fit with a human. I suppose is it "human privilege" that as the normative race, the character gets to be judged as an individual.

But, reading the Advanced Race Guide made me realize my own deficiencies in this regard. If I choose to play a catfolk or a kitsune, I want it to be more than just an excuse to get certain bonuses.
The comments here give me some things to think about.

Thank you.


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UnArcaneElection wrote:

I'm tempted to say: When magic is outlawed, only outlaws will have magic.

Ha!

If I ever tried to publish IronFinder as a 3PP, that would be the subtitle.


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Val'bryn2 wrote:
I think it would be better to use the automatic bonus progression and background skills from Pathfinder Unchained.

I bought Unchained for the monk, but didn't read that section. I'll have to look at it. The better the house rules play with Hero Lab, the easier it will be. Thank you!

@Sundakan, As for flying creatures, I think that is one reason why things get particularly challenging from 10th level onward. In a perfect game, the players would come up with innovative ideas and the GM would be flexible on the rules in support of innovation. The GM could flavor the setting with opportunities for the players to set ambushes, entangle wings or temporarily acquire flying allies.

@SilvercatMoonpaw, thanks for the extra reading ideas. I am always hesitant to switch to a new rule system, since it feels easier to convince players to try "Pathfinder with modifications" than "Read this 300 page book and show up Tuesday with characters". It took me several years to 'unlearn' AD&D and 3rd Ed so I could really feel comfortable with Pathfinder. But, if the new rules are quality and a better fit, I will consider shifting.


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I am not sure if you have been following my recent thread on this very topic or whether great minds just think alike.

The recommendation in that thread (and apparently supported by Ultimate Intrigue) is to use Bluff vs. Sense Motive. The PC is still trying to persuade an NPC to believe something he is not inclined to believe. If you want to give a bonus to the PC because it is true, that is a reasonable if not RAW adjustment.

I wish that Bluff was named "Persuasion" and Sense Motive was named "Social Perception". That seems to better match all their uses.


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I have created a "complete" list of Pathfinder Compatible Modules from all publishers for your one stop browsing experience.

Click Here to View the List in HTML Format

Click Here to Download in Excel Format

You can also find it under the "Extras" section of the d20pfsrd.

I put "complete" in quotes because that is a moving target and I am only promising to update it about once a month. Also, there are a few publishers from whom I have not received permission to list their work.

Publishers: For modules that I missed, new ones that are created or information which needs correction, please post the information in this thread.

Gamers: Let me know if this information is useful and any ideas on how it could be more useful.


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On the other hand, your first level mage is not standing around doing nothing after casting a magic missile.

One of the few things that I liked about 4th Ed D&D was that spellcasters had some at will powers, which meant that in roleplaying, they always felt magical. 4th Ed went too far, IMO.

I think "free refills" on cantrips/orisons is a good compromise. My mage can always cast light, mage hand and a weak attack.

As far as the lock goes, it would take a LOT of acid to etch away the metal in lock. I think the Rules-As-Written would tell you to subtract the hardness of the material from the damage, which would make the cantrip useless.