jon bourque's page

Battle herald PRC adds a bonus if you take the teamwork command

There is swift aid (feat) but it only gives a +1...

With damage like 2d8, I would be careful in making it repeating. The progression from a standard light or heavy crossbow to a repeating one takes an exotic proficiency. Keeping in mind that progression from Martial to Exotic is typically 1 weapon die or a special ability, having that weapon be *BOTH* repeating (exotic already) and 2 sizes bigger than a heavy crossbow seems likely to be abused. At 1d10, a 6th lvl fighter is shooting 3 shots a round, so at best 3d10+ 3X misc mods. This weapon would be doing 6d8+ 3X misc mods. While it is true he can only shoot 2 the next round then must take a round to reload, the same would be true with the d10 weapon...It is significantly better than an exotic weapon Just something to keep in mind.

Just a quick note, since Drakli was tired he forgot the summoner cast haste, not the witch since it is not in fact a witch spell unless you have a cat...

Yeah, when I rebuilt the Eidolon, he had a max of 6 attacks (rake), which I felt was much less ridiculous. Those elementals came from a LvL minus 2 summon for 1d4+1 critters, so the potential to control 2-5 additional creatures is present, not counting summon monster spells. Rolling all the claw attacks at once, then all the slams than all the longbow shots did help a turn which would have taken significantly longer had I not done so...

As I have said before, the summoner has a lot going on. The removal of standard action summon abilities did help a lot, as did the limit of 1 summon-spell-like-ability at a time. Summoning is an integral part of fantasy lore, but it does tend to take longer to play a turn than the average evoker...

As we have heard a million times, something needs to be done to bring the Eidolon in line. I am *not* a fan of the fix whereby a summoner spends his action to "control" the eidolon, because that would both be too much of a penalty, and presuppose a lack of intelligence (or wisdom) on the part of the summoned.

I prefer the escalating cost change to eidoolon whereby each subsequent purchase of an evolution costs additional points, but again this would encourage the monster with every different attack form. Limiting the number of natural attacks which the eidolon can make in a turn, sadly, would encourage a phenomenon which I call Mr-Biceps, or Multi-tail syndrome (because sting and slam are primary attacks and thus are prime choices if # is the limiting factor). Perhaps some combination of the two would be in line...? Again, this isn't just to fix the power-gamer, it is entirely possible for the average player to create an entirely too powerful class ability!

Summoner has a cool feel to it. I knew it would be enjoyable upon first glance. Nothing can be done about rolling a 1 on a will save vs stun (aside from perhaps improved iron will), so my lack of fun with the last encounter was due to the cold-hearted entity probability, and not the class itself.

Shane LeRose wrote:

Our own Summoner redid his Eidolon and now it isn't some obnoxious time taker with turns lasting nearly five minutes.

Just out of curiosity, have you tried having your summoner roll his pet's attack dice all at the same time?

Actually, I did roll all 11/12 attacks for the eidolon at the same time, it was the earth elementals attacking 3 different targets, and my 4 shots from the longbow (elf) that added time. Time seems to be an inevitable cost for any character though, as in this last fight it took 3 hours to run 5 rounds of combat (36minutes/rd or an average of 6min/active participant), for which I was stunned, the alchemist was stunned, and the inquisitor was stunned.

As Shane said, the main thing was we jumped into high level characters with spells none of us had really used before and brand new class abilities. Again thanks for the playtest!

Here's a question after looking over the eidolon stats. Can claws be added to the Limbs (leg) evolution, from the sounds of it, legs give speed increase, not additional attacks based on the initial stat block of a quadraped eidolon. If so that means the eidolon would lose 4 attacks. The player would get back 2 points for not using the claw evolution which could then be placed into rake, difference of that is the eidolon has to grapple the opponent in order to use the attacks.

Something to consider clarifying in the rules.

Note, I had limbs (legs) twice for free and bought 3 times, and claws 5 times (hence 10 attacks)

That aside, the game is about to start, and I am using a different eidolon because the current one is too lame. And now for something slightly different...

STR 28, DEX 18 CON 18 INT 7 WIS 10 CHA 11
SPEED 40 AC 35 (MAGE ARMOR)

BITE+26 2D6+8+POISON(23 FORT 1D4 CON 3 RDS)+GRAB+TRIP
2 CLAWS +24 1D6+44
2 RAKES +26 1D6+8
STING +26 1D6+8
CMB +22 (+26 GRAPPLE)
CMD 36

EVOLUTION COST TIMES TAKEN TOTAL
grab 2 1 2
rake 2 1 2
POISON 2 2 4
CLAWS 1 1 1
TAIL 1 1 1
STING 1 1 1
scent 1 1 1
Improved natural armor 1 2 2
trip 1 1 1
large 3 1 3
pounce 1 1 1
19
feats
ability focus poison
combat reflexes
power attack
nimble moves
Improved natural attack bite
acrobatic steps

That being said, we have devoted a ton of time in this thread to the summoner. I will post a "post-game analysis" of the new eidolon, but we should move our focus elsewhere. Thanks all, I've liked the discussion!

Something else to consider with the Eidolon. Each level you can completely rebuild it. Makes calling them evolution points a little silly.

The thing is, as long as the maximum number of evolutions the summoner can gain by leveling is 2, rebuilding is the only way to obtain the higher cost evolutions. Something like this should be left up to the player and the DM.

The player asked me to post her witch and hag…
Magda lvl 14 human Witch
STR 10, DEX 16, CON 10, INT 19 (25), WIS 14, CHA 14
FORT 10, REF 11, WILL 13
23 AC 65 HP
DIPLOMACY 19, HEAL 19, INTIMIDATE 19, ARCANA 24, NATURE 24, HISTORY 24, SPELLCRAFT 24
SPELLS CURRENTLY PREPARED
1- BURNING HANDS, OBSCURING MIST, GREASE, ANIMATE ROPE
2- CURE MODERATE WOUNDS, DAZE MONSTER, DELAY POISON, SEE INVISIBILITY, WEB, MIRROR IMAGE
3- DISPEL MAGIC, LIGHTNING BOLT, MAJOR IMAGE,
4- BLACK TENTACLES, ICE STORM
5- BALEFUL POLYMORPH HOLD MONSTER, TELEPORT
6- CONE OF COLD, CURE LIGHT MASS, GREATER HEROISM,
7- CURE MODERATE MASS, HARM

HEXES
CHARM, EVIL EYE, MAJOR HEALING, COVEN, MISFORTUNE, TONGUES, WARD, CACKLE, RETRIBUTION
GEAR-> HEADBAND OF INT+6, PEARL OF POWER x3 1,3,5, RING OF WIZARDRY 2ND LVL, CLOAK OF PROTECTION +2, RING OF PROTECTION +4, BRACERS OF ARMOR +6
FEATS-> ESHEW MATERIALS, IMPROVED INITATIVE, GREAT FORTITUDE, LEADERSHIP, SPELL PENETRATION, GREATER SPELL PENETRATION, SPELL FOCUS ILLUSION, COMBAT CASTING

HAG COHORT
STR 26, DEX 14, CON 16, INT 15, WIS 13, CHA 14
FORT 12 REF 9 WILL 8 AC 32 133HP
BATTLEAXE +1 (23/18) 1D8+10 AND CLAW (19) 1D4+4+WEAKNESS DC 19 FORT
LONGBOW+17 1D8
FEATS-> WEAPON FOCUS BATTLEAXE, WEAPON SPECIALIZATION BATTLEAXE, MULTIATTACK, DODGE, COMBAT CASSTING, DECEITFUL, GREAT FORTITUDE, TOUGHNESS
GEAR-> +1 FULLPLATE, +1 BATTLEAXE, BELT OF STRENGTH+2

AT WILL-> DANCING LIGHTS, DISGUISE SELF, GHOST SOUND, INVISIBILITY, PYROTECHNICS, TREE SHAPE, WHISPERING WING
CONSTANT-> PASS W/O TRACE, TONGUES, WATER BREATHING

Initially, we were hoping to have the extra witch around to use the coven ability (yay leadership for a hag). This character has her own gypsy caravan courtesy of leadership. We have yet to use coven, though it seems to be of limited use in combat. Retribution hex is great when the DM doesn’t roll poorly ( :P) Sadly, the second encounter was against golems which are immune to magic (hence the hanging back in that encounter, see Shane). This character hasn’t had an opportunity to shine yet. Hopefully fights with real humanoids will come up soon, as well as an opportunity to do things outside of combat.

So, with the errata which I read on the first page of summoner posts, the problem of an army is reduced. With full round casting and a max of 1 summon monster at a time, the summoner is less crazy in a fight. However, I still have yet to see a significant change in the eidolon. There are hundreds of posts to read through...is there a consolidated official rulings post? Additionally I have a correction, Anton does not have skill focus ( I discovered this when double checking my build) and he is in fact an elf, not a half elf.

Now that there has been some dramatic buildup, enter the Eidolon...er...Summoner...

Queael (Kale) the "Milliclaw"
STR 28
DEX 18
CON 18
INT 7
WIS 10
CHA 11
12D10+48 (118HP)
SPEED 70

10 CLAWS +20 1D6+4+1D6 ACID
BITE+21 1D8+9
CMB +26 (30 GRAPPLE)
CMD 36
AC 26, 14 TOUCH (30 WITH MAGE ARMOR)
FORT+12, REF+12, WILL+6
DARKVISION, LINK, SHARESPELLS, EVASION, DEVOTION, MULTIATTACK, IRON WILL, IMPROVED IRON WILL, DODGE, POWERATTACK, WEAPON FOCUS CLAW, IMPROVED CRITICAL CLAW.
PERCEPTION +15
SURVIVAL +15
STEALTH +15
CLIMB +24

EVOLUTIONS-> BITE (FREE), LEGS->PAIRS x5 (2 FREE), CLAW x5, GRAB, POUNCE, ENERGY DAMAGE (ACID), LARGE.

ANTON ENALO (SUMMONER 14)
STR 10, DEX 16, CON 12, INT 16, WIS 10, CHA 19.
FORT 11, REF 13, WILL 15
AC 24 14 TOUCH, 108HP
ICY LONGBOW+3 (15/15/10) 1D8+3+1D6 COLD
DAGGER+1 (10) 1D4+1
NATURE +17
ARCANE +17
DUNGEONEERING +16
PLANES +16
SPELLCRAFT +20
SURVIVAL +20 (NOT CLASS)

SR 20 (SCARAB OF PROTECTION)
GEAR: CLOAK OF RESISTANCE +5, GOGGLES OF NIGHT, HEADBAND CHA+6, LUCKSTONE, +5 MITHRIL BREASTPLATE, BELT OF PHYSICAL MIGHT +2 DEX/CON,
FEATS- SPELL FOCUS CONJURATION, AUGMENT SUMMONING, IMPROVED INITATIVE, POINT BLANK SHOT, PRECISE SHOT, RAPID SHOT, TOUGHNESS, SKILL FOCUS SURVIVAL.

SPELLS:
0: ACID SPLASH, DETECT MAGIC, READ MAGIC, MESSAGE, OPEN/CLOSE
1: MAGE ARMOR, UNSEEN SERVANT, FEATHER FALL, ENDURE ELEMENTS, ALARM, MAGIC MOUTH,
2: HASTE, BARKSKIN, BULL STRENGTH, SPIDER CLIMB, GLITTERDUST, WIND WALL,
3: FLY,GREATER MAGIC FANG, WATER BREATHING, DISPEL MAGIC, DIMENSION DOOR
4:DISMISSAL, OVERLAND FLIGHT, TELEPORT, MASS BEARS ENDURANCE
5: TRUE SEEING, PLANE SHIFT, SEQUESTER, CREEPING DOOM

MAKER'S CALL 4/DAY,
SUMMON MONSTER 7/DAY
GREATER SHIELD ALLY
ASPECT
TRANSPOSITION

Ok so there they are.

Reason for build:
The fact that one can choose unlimited limbs and claws made me choose a build maxing out these options. The energy attacks evolution is ridiculous with this many attacks, and is definitely worth the 2 pts. The large evolution was initially chosen because I wanted to use Grab. Additionally, +8 strength and an increase in all the damage dice were too good to pass up. Pounce is the part that makes this build absolutely broken, especially since Queael can charge 140 ft. Power attack is a must for this build, despite the fact that the penalty equals the damage bonus. I like feats that give me an additional 44 damage a round. Feats were of limited use after augment summoning. There is also little gear of use to spontaneous casters.

This Eidolon deals 20d6+1d8+113 damage if it hits on all attacks while power attacking, assuming no critical hits (19-20/X2) (Greater magic fang lasting 14 hours and bull strength active) Haste increases this to 22d6+1d8+123.

There have actually been a couple build mistakes here that I would like to point out. Grab is useless, so I would replace it with improved damage (1 point!!!) for the claw attack form. Additionally, I failed to recognize the improved natural attack feat. This would increase half of those d6s to d10s....

The only weaknesses with Queael are foes with DR and/or acid resist, and those with reach/grab. When fighting the clay golems, I sent him after the other foe (retriever) then had him stand in front of a golem as a meat shield. He could do damage to them, but it would have been too time consuming for a marginal benefit. As far as reach goes, share spells and Dimension Door fixes that problem for a summoner who isn’t too cocky.
Summoner needs to be fixed before it can be released due to these following points:

1) There needs to be a limit on the number of natural attacks an Eidolon can have. Limbs/Claws isn't even the most efficient way to gain damage. Tentacle yields 1 attack for 1 point, where limb/claw yields 2 attacks for 3 points.

2) There is usually a limit to the number of things a player can do in any given turn. Standard, move, swift, and some number of free actions. Summoner casually walks past this rule and steals all the cookies. On one turn, without trying too hard, I could summon 1d4+1 monsters enhanced by augment summoning and have all of them attack, make 12 attacks with my eidolon, and attack with all the monsters I summoned on a previous turn. Alternately, I just fly around shooting things while my army of summoned monsters devours all the enemies.