johnny jessup's page

Wow. I really disagree with a lot of what you say about Kuttner.

I think hacks like Binder and Robert Moore Williams and Ray Cummings (after the first few years) have a lot more to do with science fiction's reputation that people like Kuttner.

After all, a lot of the material he produced with his wife under the Padgett name was considered classic material at the time, and much of it is praiseworthy. Henry Kuttner was a hack in the sense that he wrote professionally, which is hardly a sin in my book.

In all I find your response echoes the boring orthodoxy of one of the posts on the Sci-Fi site, which claims that all science fiction prior to John W. Campbell was rubbish.

Sure, it's been the accepted knowledge for years, often parroted by people who have no idea what they are talking about.

I'm NOT saying that's the case with you (you're obviously well read), but I really wish people would try a sampling of what they condemn before they condemn it.

That was quick,I knew it would get a response from you! Don't worry Eric,you'll be pleased to know that 'Elflock' is just me stirring things up again with a new Default Alias! I have nothing better to do,you see? You KNOW what I think of all these people already. Well,I HAVE read a lot of Kuttner and Hamilton,and I REALLY tried to like it (because I keep reading that it was good). Actually,I think exactly the OPPOSITE to the idea that all sci-fi before Campbell was rubbish. In fact,I blame John Campbell Jnr and his obsession with 'scientific rationalism' etc. for ruining the romantic adventure side of it. I still like many things that Campbell published in Astounding...Van Vogt,Simak etc,but most of it was just boring and/or too clever for it's own good for me (particularly the so-called 'Fantasy' in Unknown) Hey,as you say,it's ALL about taste with all this stuff and I know the stuff I like is often not regarded as 'good writing' or whatever,that just doesn't interest me at all (Cummings,Moore Williams etc etc) I just like a good story,preferably a romantic adventure or weird fantasy with a hot Princess or something...

Yes, I am aware of that. They're both different, in any event, and in one case significantly so. A lot of people believe Edmond Hamilton "touched up" the original Planet Stories novellas to make that Ace Double, and it's interesting to compare the two.

Ok,well I have the Paizo 'Sinharat/Talisman',but haven't read it yet. So is that the same text as the Ace double? (which I don't have,I only have the short versions in that Gollancz one from 2005)

Yeah. Possibly with Queen of the Martian Catacombs, Enchantress of Venus, and Stark and the Star Kings.

We'll see.

Are you aware that 'Black Amazon of Mars' is the earlier,shorter version of 'The Secret of Sinharat',and 'Queen of The Martian Catacombs' is the short version of 'People of The Talisman'? Both of the short ones are in that 'Fantasy Masterworks' edition from Gollancz (Sea-Kings of Mars and Otherworldly Stories)..btw,'Sea-Kings' is 'The Sword of Rhiannon' etc etc etc....

Erik Mona wrote:

We're on top of the Brackett material. My main priority is to polish off the remaining Eric John Stark stuff (one more book of odds and ends, really), after which I would prefer to move on to stuff like The Nemesis from Terra. A lot of what you mention falls into that category. Much of it was recently reprinted in hardcover from Haffner, and out of respect I'd prefer not to tread to carelessly through his garden.

I am totally with you on the longer series, largely for the reason that agreeing to publish that material would fill up virtually all of our slots and leave no room for anything else. Plus, many of those really long series have loving homes with micro publishers who clearly are in it for the love, so that community (at least as far as Akers is concerned) is relatively well served.

At the current frequency of six books a year even a trilogy is claiming a significant chunk of an annual offering, and I suspect just about everyone (ourselves included) appreciates variety.

Totally cool about the Brackett,all the Stark stuff is excellent,probably her best. It's alright for me,I have all of the ones that have been published in book form,but yes,'The Nemesis From Terra','The Starmen of Llyrdis','Alpha Centauri or Die' and all those things would be a treat for your readers!! One of my favourites was,'The Lake of The Gone Forever'. What a cool title and a great story too(I stole that for a song title once). You're doing a good job guys! People here seem to like Merritt,so one I would suggest is 'The Metal Monster'. Have you read that one?

I should have had a look at the Wikipedia Leigh Brackett page! There are quite a few I've never heard of. Well,that's good,something to look for. One thing I hate about trying to collect this old stuff from the magazines,is that they are often re-published with a different title or as part of an 'expanded' version etc. (as in 'Secret of Sinharat'/'People of The Talisman',which were expanded versions of 2 other titles). Also several of the stories I thought had not been published in book form,'Teleportress' etc,I already have as part of later books,with different titles and nothing on them to let you know what it is. At least that Wikipedia entry is fairly comprehensive,so now I know what to look for. I don't have 'Creep,Shadow,Creep' either,but I think someone said it was a sequel to 'Burn,Witch,Burn',in which case I won't be buying it unless I see it for a couple of bucks,it's not fantasy. There are a few short stories that I don't have,'The Fox Woman','People of The Pit' etc.

We're on top of the Brackett material. My main priority is to polish off the remaining Eric John Stark stuff (one more book of odds and ends, really), after which I would prefer to move on to stuff like The Nemesis from Terra. A lot of what you mention falls into that category. Much of it was recently reprinted in hardcover from Haffner, and out of respect I'd prefer not to tread to carelessly through his garden.

I am totally with you on the longer series, largely for the reason that agreeing to publish that material would fill up virtually all of our slots and leave no room for anything else. Plus, many of those really long series have loving homes with micro publishers who clearly are in it for the love, so that community (at least as far as Akers is concerned) is relatively well served.

At the current frequency of six books a year even a trilogy is claiming a significant chunk of an annual offering, and I suspect just about everyone (ourselves included) appreciates variety.

Totally cool about the Brackett,all the Stark stuff is excellent,probably her best. It's alright for me,I have all of the ones that have been published in book form,but yes,'The Nemesis From Terra','The Starmen of Llyrdis','Alpha Centauri or Die' and all those things would be a treat for your readers!! One of my favourites was,'The Lake of The Gone Forever'. What a cool title and a great story too(I stole that for a song title once). You're doing a good job guys! People here seem to like Merritt,so one I would suggest is 'The Metal Monster'. Have you read that one?

I have a lot of the Dumarest books. I have the faintest tickle of a memory that tells me someone else (possibly in the UK) is republishing these, but I may be getting them confused with the Akers Scorpio books.

I recently picked up "Space Viking," and have a cruel mind to propose a "space viking" anthology somewhere down the road that might include things like Silverberg's "Spawn of the Deadly Sea" and Coppel's "The Rebel of Valkyr" (or "of Rhada," for that matter).

It's about 23rd on the list of anthologies I'd like to do, but it is in the notebook. :)

As I've said before, we've enquired about the Kane books, but our emails were not returned. May try again on those later.

Hmm,Space Vikings are ok,but not H.Beam Piper! Cringe...The problem with all that Dumarest and Scorpio stuff is there are just piles and piles of books in those series. Would you re-publish all 50 of them or whatever it is? I tried reading that stuff years ago as a teenager,when I loved just about every sci-fi book I read...but not this stuff!! It was probably the first stuff I read that just left me completely unimpressed. I totally understand why you have Piers Anthony,Gary Gygax etc,although it is a surprise to me that Anthony is still popular. He is not exactly modern! Hmm,if anybody wants to see just how bad a fantasy book can be,try 'Crewell Lye' by Piers. If anyone wants to see where a lot of the influence for the whole Weird Tales thing came from,I will wholeheartedly recommend 'Vathek' by William Beckford,1787. (Howard,Ashton Smith etc) Now THAT is GOOD! Same with all his other ones,eg.'The Nymph in The Fountain'. Read that everybody!I'll put in my usual request for the Leigh Brackett stuff that hasn't been re-published,a few of which are,'Citadel of Lost Ships','Last Call From Sector 9-G','Teleportress of Alpha','The Dragon Queen of Jupiter','Thralls of The Endless Night',there are more,can't remember them.

Dragnmoon wrote:

Blue Tyson wrote:

You'd have to tell us which ones they have to pick one? :)

.

I swear they had more.. but All I could find today was.

Lord of the Spiders
The Ginger Star
Infernal Sorceress

That's easy then, get The Ginger Star.

Yep...easy,no question,The Ginger Star.

I just got my copy of "Robots Have No Tails" in the mail. I love Paizo and I love the Planet Stories line, but I very strongly dislike the new format.

I thought the cover illustration for "Robots" was by far one of your best yet, but the cover layout really bugs me. Why the omnipresent Planet Stories logo? Gah!

Because of the layout and the paper stock, I think "Robots" is too much like a magazine for its own good--it feels disposable. I'm not sure people will pay $12.99 for something that looks and feels like it should be read once and then thrown in the recycling bin. I assume the magazine look is intended to capture some kind of nostalgia for the pulps, but are any of your readers that old? (I'm 41, and I don't have any nostalgic feelings toward that era.)

Add me to the list of those who are not fans of the two columns of text on each interior page--it's hard on the eyes. Modern magazines that use a format like that put an illustration of some kind on virtually every page to break up the text and make it more appealing to the eye.

Finally (and I apologize, because I am full of complaints today), some of your choices for the line are confounding to me. I can't wait for A. Merritt, but why Piers Anthony? It seems like you're really running two different book series under the same name. Maybe I'm being too nit-picky, but it seems like some of your books (Piers Anthony, Gary Gygax, Worlds of Their Own, etc.) belong in a separate series from Planet Stories.

I suspect there are financial realities that make a lot of these choices necessary, so I understand if you feel you have to do some of these things to keep the line alive.

I really want you guys to be successful, but if "Robots" is the future of the line, it is hard for me to imagine continuing my subscription.

Thanks for listening.

Well taste in artwork is as individual a thing as taste in books or music,but I like the old Planet Stories logo look to the front cover. For me,the illustration is ok,definitely better than the artwork on your other books. It could still be better though. The old magazine format inside is a bit lame. Especially the two columns. Also,if these new books are going to be even bigger than before,I totally don't like that idea. It just makes them awkward to read and to store etc. Every book you buy these days is a different size,I think the smaller,the better.

I know Charles and Nathalie Henneberg but I have never red any of their books. Thanks Johnny for the tip. =)

Reading an article somewhere on the web I found this author: Ralph Milne Farley.
Anyone red his Radio Man series? Is it good?
Perhaps someone already talked about him in previous messages here...

I only have 'The Radio Beasts' by Farley,which is the 2nd one I think,but I haven't read it yet,I'm waiting for you guys to put the first one out!! I read a couple of short stories which were pretty cool. Yes,that Daw version of 'The Green Gods' was translated by C.J.Cherryh,it's a classic!! Hmmm,I just saw that people are selling old copies of 'Genius Loci and other stories' by CAS for $135!!!! (U.S. too I think,that's a lot for an old paperback!!) I think I must have a bit of a treasure trove here if this is what people will pay for these things...I have all those Panther CAS ones,most in near new condition and thousands of other things like that. Oh well,I'm not going to sell them anyway...this is probably why they are worth so much money I suppose

All the Rosny I've read is excellent,'The Quest of The Dawn Man' was a great Stone Age one. There was a cool paperback collection edited by Damon Knight,'13 French Science Fiction Stories'(a Galaxy of Gallic Fantasy),Bantam 1965. N.C.(Charles and Nathalie)Henneberg,Henry Damonti,Gerard Klein,Pierre Mille etc....all really good. Henneberg,'the A.Merritt of France', wrote a total classic called 'The Green Gods'(English translation published by Daw in 1980)....Kenneth Bulmer...:(....

Rhoward wrote:

Hi there!

I am mostly a lurker here but I have written some sources in a previous message about french authors. I think this thread is may be a better place... =)

Just in case you didn't read my previous message, what about those books?
Anyone here red them?

Vampire of Mars

Ironcastle

Xipehuz

Perhaps some interesting novels in Europe? I am going to check and post here later.

I happen to have Ironcastle sitting on my shelf here at Paizo. Excellent book, and I'd love to see it back in print. I haven't read The Xipehuz but have been meaning to track it down for some time now. There's a lot of Rosny's work that sounds absolutely fascinating and I'd like to read it in English. From what I've read, he's much more innovative than Verne. I can read some French, but it is slow-going and I rarely have that much time on my hands. I have skimmed over Ironcastle in French, however, and Farmer retold it pretty closely, with a few Wold Newton-type embellishments on the sidelines.

I'm a big fan of Black Coat Press, who's putting out a lot of French pulp and SF in English (and the first book in your list, which I haven't read yet). In fact, I have a story in the latest Tales of the Shadowmen that leans heavily on Rosny. Working on another story for the next volume right now, so I've been reading through a lot of French lit of late.

Have you read any of these, Rhoward? Opinions? Have you read any pulps/sf/f that you consider worthy of seeing print again, French or otherwise?

I just picked up Jade Enchantress last month. I'm currently reading a serial E. Hoffman Price wrote with Otis Adelbert Kline called "Satans on Saturn." Boy, that one was a @#%# to track down, too!

Don't get too excited. In keeping with my new year's resolution about not saying anything if I can't think of anything nice to say(The Jade Enchantress).........................................;)

Erik Mona wrote:

Very interesting. I'd never heard of him.

Don't get too excited

No,he was ok

Very interesting. I'd never heard of him.

Don't get too excited

Erik Mona wrote:

Neither of you are thinking of the right Cummings story.

Clark Ashton Smith is doing quite well in the hands of Nightshade, who are reissuing his entire output (albeit a bit slowly).

I have a difficult time believing those electronic Kuttner books are sanctioned by his estate, and would (of course) prefer people buy our edition of The Dark World. It is a fantastic fantasy novel that will not disappoint you.

I was actually looking up Cummings the other day - The L ight Country stuff then?

Can't put your Dark World on my Palm though, too big :) (apart from the fact I already have it).

You also do have excerpt failure in general, come to that, for people wanting to check them out? There's been the odd bit on the blog, but that is certainly something that is lacking.

Ahhh,of course,Tama. Yes,go on do it!!! I don't have all of them!! (or are we still wrong?) And yes,'The Girl in The Golden Atom' is just one of the most ridiculous things you'll ever read,but he somehow manages to pull it off. There were heaps of sequels which I don't have so that's another one I'd love to see. Yes,I've heard before that 'The Dark World' is a good one. I've just read a few beauties by CAS,especially 'The Dead Planet'. Now that's what I call WEIRD. I've also been reading one Northwest Smith story every few weeks to savour the experience. It's all just as good second time around.

I'd rather not say, honestly. It involved women with wings from a nearby planet.

That narrows it down a lot less than you might think, though.

Hmm,I think I know,but in light of what you say I'm not sure now. From memory,there was only one woman with wings in the one I'm thinking of. (is the 1st initial B, or aren't you prepared to say?)

Erik Mona wrote:

There was a Cummings book on the schedule until a recent change made me bump it for something that will definitely sell more copies.

You taunt us! Come on, tell us what it is!

Yes,come on!!

johnny jessup wrote:

Any Ray Cummings on the horizon?

Maybe. There was a Cummings book on the schedule until a recent change made me bump it for something that will definitely sell more copies.

I have a certain fondness for Ray Cummings, though I don't think it's quite correct to say he is a good writer.

Cool. I personally would much rather read a good story by a bad writer than a boring story by a good one! As I've said before,I don't even know what good writing is. Is it like 'good' music? No such thing for me,it's just music. I like it or I don't. But yes,trying to sell Ray might be a bit difficult I suppose.

johnny jessup wrote:

...It's only really the Robot and Mutant ones I don't like. Surprise surprise,these are the ones that are apparently better written???? Hmmmm,whatever. I'm not a critic,I just like it or not...

I think you’re talking more about a matter of personal taste than the quality of the writing. I know robot and mutant stories don’t appeal to everyone.

Just my two cents.

Yep,absolutely,just personal taste.

johnny jessup wrote:

Yes,that's right,they also collaborated a lot as Lawrence O'Donnell and other pseudonyms. The Lewis Padgett ones read like 90% Kuttner to me. Same with all their collaborations except 'Earth's Last Citadel','The Picture in The Portal' (Both 90% Moore for me),and Fury which is usually credited to Henry but was originally published as Lawrence O'Donnell. Apparently there has always been a lot of debate about who wrote what,but going on their individual work,that's how it seems to me.(according to Wikipedia there are a few theories) Kuttner's Gallegher and Baldie stories are popular it seems with the sci-fi fans but I find them painful to read. For me,Elak was good but not in the same league as Moore or Howard or Ashton Smith etc. Basically CL Moore is my favourite writer of all time (with Brackett) but I find Kuttner very ordinary at best. Hey guys,can I request 'The Golden Amazon' series by John Russel Fearn again? That is seriously cool,I promise you'll like it!!

Have you read The Dark World? I thought that was pretty darn good Kuttner. I also really enjoy Robots Have No Tails. Kuttner really knew how to put together a story, from pacing to plot. He wasn't always so great with the lush description, which is why I think he doesn't compare all that favorably to his wife in a lot of readers' minds.

I agree that Earth's Last Citadel has moments that are obviously Moore. I strongly suspect that you can trace who wrote what to the hacky use of the Scottish (?) character's accent. About every other chapter it gets really thick and ridiculous, and then in the next chapter it is totally missing. Still a fine book, though, and one I'd like to republish for Planet Stories some day.

I haven't read any Fearn, but if we did publish any of it I suspect we'd go with his Mars series (which I have) or more likely some of his early Amazing Stories adventures, as they're all sitting about 30 feet from my office.

No,I haven't read 'The Dark World' but I've heard it's good. I'll probably get that.It's only really the Robot and Mutant ones I don't like. Surprise surprise,these are the ones that are apparently better written???? Hmmmm,whatever. I'm not a critic,I just like it or not. You're right that Kuttner knew how to put a story together etc,like Edmond Hamilton and those sort of people,but it was often not very imaginative or something,and the humour is corny to me. And yes the lush descriptive style of Moore is just what I prefer. Later on though,when they were collaborating for Campbell etc,even the Moore 'solo' stuff started reading more like Kuttner. Like 'Doomsday Morning' and some of those things she did later. For me,'Jirel' and 'Northwest' was her best by far. Fearn is patchy,for me,'The Amazon' was best. There were a few books in that series but I only have one,that's why I keep asking for it you see? Any Ray Cummings on the horizon?

Oh,I forgot,The Willow Landscape new CD available now!!!! www.myspace.com/thewillowlandscape Am I allowed to say that? Go on,buy one!!!

johnny jessup wrote:

jjb1011jjb wrote:

well iv decided to buy another planet story volume

im just not sure wich one

iv narrowed it down to two

Elak of Atlantis by Kuttner

or Black gods kiss by moore

any help from readers

Henry must have been so jealous of his wife,he wasn't in the same league at all. Go with 'Black God's Kiss'. In my humble opinion,the best weird fantasy series ever written.'Elak' was my favourite Kuttner but nowhere near as good as 'Jirel' for me. But,as I've seen a lot on here,everyone is different. If you haven't read Leigh Brackett,get that next!!

Apples and Oranges. Kuttner and Moore collaborated so often after they were married that it's only the material written before that that you can guarentee was written by one or the other. Their writing styles grew so close that one could start a piece and the other finish it seamlessly. Pick up some Lewis Padgett sometime, it was their mutual pen name.

Incidentally, neither Elak nor the Dark World are the best examples of Kuttner you can get. Robots have no Tails should be close though.

Yes,that's right,they also collaborated a lot as Lawrence O'Donnell and other pseudonyms. The Lewis Padgett ones read like 90% Kuttner to me. Same with all their collaborations except 'Earth's Last Citadel','The Picture in The Portal' (Both 90% Moore for me),and Fury which is usually credited to Henry but was originally published as Lawrence O'Donnell. Apparently there has always been a lot of debate about who wrote what,but going on their individual work,that's how it seems to me.(according to Wikipedia there are a few theories) Kuttner's Gallegher and Baldie stories are popular it seems with the sci-fi fans but I find them painful to read. For me,Elak was good but not in the same league as Moore or Howard or Ashton Smith etc. Basically CL Moore is my favourite writer of all time (with Brackett) but I find Kuttner very ordinary at best. Hey guys,can I request 'The Golden Amazon' series by John Russel Fearn again? That is seriously cool,I promise you'll like it!!

well iv decided to buy another planet story volume

im just not sure wich one

iv narrowed it down to two

Elak of Atlantis by Kuttner

or Black gods kiss by moore

any help from readers

Henry must have been so jealous of his wife,he wasn't in the same league at all. Go with 'Black God's Kiss'. In my humble opinion,the best weird fantasy series ever written.'Elak' was my favourite Kuttner but nowhere near as good as 'Jirel' for me. But,as I've seen a lot on here,everyone is different. If you haven't read Leigh Brackett,get that next!!

Big Planet is my favorite science fiction book, period.

Jack Vance's agent won't return our emails or phone calls.

::shrug::

A big call. I love all of Jack's stuff! Favourites are probably Nopalgarth,The Blue World,All the Dying Earth ones(including the 80's ones)and the Lyonesse trilogy.

johnny jessup wrote:

On the subject of ERB,I saw on a Fantastic Adventures cover or something,a novel called,'Goddess of Fire'. Has this got an alternative title or has it just never been published in book form? I've never heard of it.(which doesn't mean much)

"Goddess of Fire" was a serialized installment from what would become the novel Escape on Venus.

Ahhh,ok thanks.

Erik Mona wrote:

We will definitely get to some Lost World material shortly. Beyond The Ship of Ishtar, nearly all of A. Merritt's books can be characterized as such.

Also, I'm dying to read DIAN OF THE LOST LAND, mostly for the incredible Virgil Finlay opening spread illustration.

I’ve not yet read anything by Edison Marshall, but I found a book of his at a library sale, it’s titled “The Land of Forgotten Men”.

Judging by the title I thought it was a ‘lost world’ story, but the library categorized it as a ‘western’.
Can anyone tell me if it’s SF or not before I read it?

Thanks in advance,
---Theris

Sorry I don't know but I'd think it was lost world by the guy who wrote 'Dian' and a fantasy classic called 'Ogden's Strange Story', even though he has a very Western-writer type name,so an even bet I suppose. The title reminded me of ERB's 'Land of Hidden Men',which I don't have but sounds pretty cool. On the subject of ERB,I saw on a Fantastic Adventures cover or something,a novel called,'Goddess of Fire'. Has this got an alternative title or has it just never been published in book form? I've never heard of it.(which doesn't mean much) Also there's an A.Merritt story/novel? called 'People of The Pit'. Anyone know that? I want it! What about 'The Fox Woman' by Merritt? Here's a lost world one,'The Valley of Silent Men' by E.Charles Vivian.

I should've mentioned Bradbury's 'The Silver Locusts'...brilliant!

All Leigh Brackett's Mars ones,all C L Moore's,Clark Ashton Smith,Robert Moore Williams' 'The Bell From Infinity',Charles Fontenay's 'Rebels of The Red Planet',ERB,O A Kline's 'Swordsman' and 'Outlaws',John Wyndham's 'Stowaway to Mars' and 'The Sleepers of Mars'...and hundreds more!

I'd guess "complete and unabridged" is a complete lie at least 30% of the time it appeared on a paperback, more for an Ace Double.

You'll appreciate reading the original, longer version, I suspect.

haha...yes probably to both your suggestions...they're not the Ace doubles,you know those little ones?(slightly smaller than an average paperback)...I have 'The Radio Beasts' by Farley and 'Tama,Princess of Mercury' and some Kline and others in those editions...they put out some really cool stuff in that series,even if they were cut to pieces!

If your old "Outlaw of Mars" is the Ace paperback edition, you're going to be missing about a third of the story.

Our edition reprints Kline's original serialized story from Argosy magazine, which is much longer (and better, in my opinion).

Yeah,I have the little Ace pocketbook editions from the early 60's of both of them...they actually say on the cover,'complete and unabridged' but this seems to mean nothing!...well I s'pose I'll have to order the bloody thing then!...I'll be getting the Elak one next though...looking forward to that cause I only have one Elak story,'Spawn of Dagon'

Just finished 'The Swordsman of Mars'...it's as good as I remembered,probably not quite as good as the better ERB but close...I'd forgotten the two novels were linked like that...I look forward to 'The Outlaws' but I might just read my old copy(sorry but I can't afford to buy books that I already have,I only got'Swordsman' because of the significantly different beginning etc. that you mentioned in a blog somewhere,on myspace was it?)...I've got a few of 'em,I'm a bit old-fashioned and like to support my only local sci-fi bookshop...they've been good to me over the years,so I get her to order them for me,they're very reasonably priced too,compared to some similar stuff...I've just started your 'Northwest of Earth'...that was good for me cause it collects all the Northwest Smith...a few of which I didn't have...'Shambleu'-awesome,'Black Thirst'-even better,in fact,brilliant,as good as anything ever!...seriously...I only read some of these a few years ago but it's just as good the 2nd time around...the woman was just a genius with words and a brilliant story-teller

Not sure if corny is a valid criticism given a liking for sword-swinging rescues of space princesses though? :)

Touche!

James Sutter wrote:

johnny jessup wrote:

theres nothing in the rules about shameless promotion of one's band!...i think i got away with that once before...our NEW band is The Willow Landscape..

It's true! Which is why you should totally check out my metal/hardcore band, Shadow at Morning (www.myspace.com/shadowatmorning) - we've got some pretty heavy fantasy and historical elements to our stuff as well. :)

I'm listening to The Willow Landscape right now - nice work! Seems like it'd be good to game to....

Hi there!...thanks man,well i just sent you guys a friend request...you're not kidding when you describe yourselves as 'metal metal and metal'...very fierce indeed...pretty different to us to say the least but i'm sure there are some fantasy elements in there somewhere amid all the screaming and shouting and frenzied adrenaline drumming and stuff!...good luck with it!!

Well,after a second and better listen,you guys are EVEN MORE FULL ON THAN I FIRST THOUGHT!...any of you metal heads who haven't heard them,you should...it's not my thing but it totally rocks

johnny jessup wrote:

'The Mucker' sounds cool...the ERB one i'm desperate for is 'The Moon Men'...

The University of Nebraska Press has ‘The Moon Men’ in their Bison Frontiers of Imagination series. It’s published along with ‘The Moon Maid’ and ‘The Red Hawk’ under the title of ‘The Moon Maid: Complete and Restored’.

This is probably the best way to get it, since it is “The most complete version of The Moon Maid saga ever made available”.

The Bison Frontiers of Imagination series has many other gems too…

---Theris

Thanks!...very interesting indeed...i didn't know the three were even connected,although i suspected 'Men' and 'Maid' probably were...'The Moon Maid' was pretty good from memory

Theris Nordo Ichka wrote:

Erik Mona wrote:

Is there anything SF about the Mucker stories? I was under the impression that they were two-fisted urban adventure or something.

‘The Mucker’ is in the ‘lost world’ sub-genre of SF.

The first chapter does deal with Billy Byrne’s early life in the city, but by chapter two he gets shanghaied and the adventure begins.
What makes it SF is the mysterious island of Yoka, which is inhabited by degenerate head-hunting descendants of samurais.

It’s a lot like the Tarzan theme, but whereas Tarzan grew up with the wild beasts of the jungle, Billy Byrne grows up with the ‘wild beasts’ of the city; the thieves, the drunks, the muckers. And both Tarzan and Byrne must learn to rise above their upbringing.
It has more character development then most of ERB’s books; some of the villains even repent.
It also features one of ERB’s strongest heroines (she even fights beside the hero, using the sword of a samurai she killed).
And you don’t need to take my word for the quality of this book; this is what Richard A. Lupoff says about it:
“…One of the most remarkable stories ever written by any author, a story which combined so disparate a variety of themes and locales as very nearly to defy belief. It is also one of the finest books of Burroughs’ long and varied career.”

What more need I say?

As the ERB cheerleader of the PS team here, I concur, The Mucker is a terrific book, and definitely a "lost world" story (at least the first book), a genre of which I am particularly fond. So far we've leaned more in the planetary romance direction, but I'm certainly pulling for PS printing some lost world romance at some point.

'The Mucker' sounds cool...the ERB one i'm desperate for is 'The Moon Men'...also 'Land of Hidden Men'...one of my faves was 'The Cave Girl'...at the moment i'm reading a classic lost world story, 'The Treasure of Atlantis' by J.Allan Dunn from All Around,Dec.1916...really good...a couple of other true classics are 'The Citadel of Fear',Francis Stevens and the 'Kioga' books by William L.Chester...one that i would really love to find is 'The Underground Trail' by George B.Rodney (published in book form as 'Beyond The Range')...also 'The Bowl of Baal' by Robert Ames Bennett

johnny jessup wrote:

theres nothing in the rules about shameless promotion of one's band!...i think i got away with that once before...our NEW band is The Willow Landscape..

It's true! Which is why you should totally check out my metal/hardcore band, Shadow at Morning (www.myspace.com/shadowatmorning) - we've got some pretty heavy fantasy and historical elements to our stuff as well. :)

I'm listening to The Willow Landscape right now - nice work! Seems like it'd be good to game to....

Hi there!...thanks man,well i just sent you guys a friend request...you're not kidding when you describe yourselves as 'metal metal and metal'...very fierce indeed...pretty different to us to say the least but i'm sure there are some fantasy elements in there somewhere amid all the screaming and shouting and frenzied adrenaline drumming and stuff!...good luck with it!!

Erik Mona wrote:

Feel free to run down authors you don't like here. The policy is to prevent abuse, not to stifle criticism.

Happy New Year!...no,no,no...i'm hearby announcing my new policy for 2009(a ny's resolution if you like)...'if you can't think of anything nice to say,don't say anything'...now,theres nothing in the rules about shameless promotion of one's band!...i think i got away with that once before...our NEW band is The Willow Landscape...i'm sure some of you will know where we stole that name from!!...we're on myspace...also on a few compilation cd's...our album will be released very soon...if you have a myspace profile, ask us to be friends,i want to see what you people look like...i heard on the news last night that 40% of gamers in Australia are female...i wonder what the percentage of Sci-fi/Fantasy fans is?...i s'pose it's hard to tell by the names on here but there don't SEEM to be a lot of women into this...am i wrong?

Hereby!

Feel free to run down authors you don't like here. The policy is to prevent abuse, not to stifle criticism.

Happy New Year!...no,no,no...i'm hearby announcing my new policy for 2009(a ny's resolution if you like)...'if you can't think of anything nice to say,don't say anything'...now,theres nothing in the rules about shameless promotion of one's band!...i think i got away with that once before...our NEW band is The Willow Landscape...i'm sure some of you will know where we stole that name from!!...we're on myspace...also on a few compilation cd's...our album will be released very soon...if you have a myspace profile, ask us to be friends,i want to see what you people look like...i heard on the news last night that 40% of gamers in Australia are female...i wonder what the percentage of Sci-fi/Fantasy fans is?...i s'pose it's hard to tell by the names on here but there don't SEEM to be a lot of women into this...am i wrong?

Not sure about the slagging thing, I am pretty sure it is ok to say you don't like Randall Garrett at all (the Gandalara books, while fitting in perhaps, are pretty average from memory, at least past the first, anyway). I'd imagine what that means is you can't call other people stupidheads for being big fans of Wagner's Kane, etc.

Given a liking for Moorcock etc., as far as new work goes in a style you might like, have you tried Chris Roberson? Paragaea etc.?

Or S. M. Stirling's In the Courst of the Crimson Kings (and prequel)?

Round and round the Mulberry bush!...ok then!!!...i'll check him out!!!...i've heard OF him i think...actually i think i said Garrett was crap....uh oh...ok,i take it all back...i love Randall-baby!!!

...is there a Hal,or are you just having a laugh?...obviously there are thousands of modern authors that i've never even heard of,let alone read...the thing is,i just don't want to read it because there are still thousands of cool old stories...

Thousands of old stories worth reading? Sure, plenty of new ones, too. Tens of thousands of really bad old stories too, depending on how old you are talking.

Yeah, there is one. Four novels, Australian, have a look. By Simon Haynes, likely to be in your library, even.

You being somewhat humor deficient doesn't mean there isn't anything funny out there (and I was just talking books, not tv like Futurama). :)

Hal Spacejock whole first novel is here

http://www.spacejock.com.au/Hal1Download.html

You can see the first few chapters of Thraxas here :-
http://www.webscription.net/p-415-thraxas.aspx

To see if you like them.

Well,humour is in the mind of the beholder...just like taste in books...thanks for the links but i'm just not interested anymore in the new stuff,for the reasons listed above...i've already got enough of the stuff i actually like(Gothic Romance,Planetary Adventure and Weird Tales etc from the 20's,30's)to last me til i'm gone,i don't have time for modern stuff!

johnny jessup wrote:

here's a list of Catherine Moore stories that i don't think have ever been re-published...'Miracle in Three Dimensions','Greater Glories',Greater than Gods','There Shall be Darkness'...and as Lawrence O'Donnell,'This is The House','Paradise Street','Promised...

For Garrett, here's what I liked :-

SF-S-4.0 Garrett, Randall : The Best Policy
SF-S-4.5 Garrett, Randall : Damned If You Don't - FREE
SW-S-4.0 Garrett, Randall : Despoilers Of the Golden Empire - FREE
SF-S-4.0 Garrett, Randall : The Highest Treason - FREE
SF-S-4.0 Garrett, Randall : The Hunting Lodge
SF-S-4.0 Garrett, Randall : Lauralyn
SF-S-4.0 Garrett, Randall : Suite Mentale - FREE
SF-S-4.5 Garrett, Randall : Time Fuze

and Lord Darcy, of course

As for Catherine Moore, seems you aren't a big enough fan. At least one of those in the reasonably obvious 'Best Of' ;-)

Best of C. L. Moore : Shambleau - C. L. Moore
Best of C. L. Moore : Black Thirst - C. L. Moore
Best of C. L. Moore : The Bright Illusion - C. L. Moore
Best of C. L. Moore : Black God's Kiss - C. L. Moore
Best of C. L. Moore : Tryst in Time - C. L. Moore
Best of C. L. Moore : Greater Than Gods - C. L. Moore
Best of C. L. Moore : Fruit of Knowledge - C. L. Moore
Best of C. L. Moore : No Woman Born - C. L. Moore
Best of C. L. Moore : Daemon - C. L. Moore
Best of C. L. Moore : Vintage Season - C. L. Moore

Oops,yes you're right,Greater than Gods' is in there...the others are the only ones i've heard of that i don't have,except for a few more with Kuttner as Lewis Padgett...no one's a bigger fan than me!!...i think Jirel is definitely the best Fantasy series ever...if only there was more of it...god i just read the little thing about Paizo policies at the bottom!...i didn't realize we weren't supposed to slag people off!...you should have told me...i'll NEVER mention Wagner,Garrett,Anthony,Anderson,NORMAN,Cook or Gygax again!...i promise!

johnny jessup wrote:

This makes my case perfectly!...if the author himself is just taking the piss out of the whole 'fantasy' genre,how can anyone be expected to take this crap seriously?...this is what happened to 'fantasy' in the 80's and now it's considered the norm...pathetic,nerdy humour just doesn't go well with it!...it never has and never will...with a couple of exceptions(Moorcock and Vance)i can't think of ANYONE who is actually funny in the whole of sci-fi or fantasy...i've read a lot of unfunny,too clever for it's own good,nerdy crap starting with all the stuff from Unknown(Kuttner at his worst,De Camp,Leiber,Frederic Brown etc.)...it's just corny...and as for all this modern stuff,if this is what more sophisticated writing is about,then bring back the unsophisticated!

You sure you hadn't been on the xmas booze when writing this? :) You haven't looked very hard, or read enough then, given you have missed Terry Pratchett, for one. :) That is pretty bloody hard to do.

Martin Scott's Thraxas is not that hard to find, either, and is nothing like contemporary satire of which you speak - and also won a World Fantasy Award.

You might even have heard of The Hitchhiker's Guide To the Galaxy. Or Red Dwarf. Or the Stainless Steel Rat. Or Hal Spacejock, even.

I knew this would get a response!!...it's hard to shake you lot up these days...OK THEN,FAIR ENOUGH!!...Red Dwarf was funny for the 1st couple of seasons,Hitchhiker's was funny,Futurama was REALLY funny(every one of them is still taking the piss out of the genre though)...hmmm,what else is there?...there was some pretty funny stuff on Enterprise,i'm not a fan of Harry Harrison at all,a good example of unfunny for me,i can't stand Terry Pratchett,unfunny,too clever...is there a Hal,or are you just having a laugh?...obviously there are thousands of modern authors that i've never even heard of,let alone read...the thing is,i just don't want to read it because there are still thousands of cool old stories that i'd rather read...simple as that...i gave up reading new Fantasy and Sci-fi in the early 90's cause i just didn't like any of the new stuff i was reading at all...this was when i went back and discovered Brackett,Moore,Howard,Ashton Smith etc. and i can't go back now!...i'm stuck in a time-warp...i HAVE tried reading a lot of stuff like Terry Pratchett and stuff but i just don't like it...so there

Have you ever read any of Hugh Cook's books, Johnny?

I've tried to (back in the 80's)...never finished one...i was really basing my outburst on the above quote which i thought was Hugh Cook's own description but it's from Wikipedia i see now...sorry...i stick by it though anyway!

johnny jessup wrote:

here's a list of Catherine Moore stories that i don't think have ever been re-published...'Miracle in Three Dimensions','Greater Glories',Greater than Gods','There Shall be Darkness'...and as Lawrence O'Donnell,'This is The House','Paradise Street','Promised...

A lot of that stuff was published in 2008 in a book called "Miracle in Three Dimensions," by Isle Press. It's a small outfit, but I've got a copy of the book and it's got a lot of rare stuff. I believe it includes all of the previously un-republished Moore material prior to her collaborations with Kuttner (other than the Jirel and NWS stories, which Planet Stories got to first).

I think you can order direct from the publisher here:

http://www.islepress.com/id1.html

Cool cool cool...thanks,i'm so there!!

Eric Mona wrote:

Here's the Wikipedia page for Hugh's 10-part Chronicles of an Age of Darkness series.

That's quite an impressive list of 'gritty' elements (from the section "The Books")! I find it amusing that evolution is included, right between slavery and patricide...

__________________

edit: Just in case it changes, here is the list as I saw it:

"At different times, the novels portray or allude to murder, bestiality, female genital cutting, cannibalism, racism, sexism, speciesism, abortion, masturbation, mutation, incest, inbreeding, constipation, assassination, gambling, drunkenness, brawling, diarrhoea, capitalism, leprosy, castration, slavery, evolution, patricide, regicide, venereal disease, forgery, treason, dwarf tossing, torture, orgies, incontinence, suicide, disembowelment, capital and corporal punishment, drug use, religious fraud, bribery, blackmail, animal cruelty, disfigurement, infanticide, the caste system, democratic revolutionary movements, rape, theft, genocide, transvestitism, premature ejaculation, prostitution, piracy, and polygamy."

This makes my case perfectly!...if the author himself is just taking the piss out of the whole 'fantasy' genre,how can anyone be expected to take this crap seriously?...this is what happened to 'fantasy' in the 80's and now it's considered the norm...pathetic,nerdy humour just doesn't go well with it!...it never has and never will...with a couple of exceptions(Moorcock and Vance)i can't think of ANYONE who is actually funny in the whole of sci-fi or fantasy...i've read a lot of unfunny,too clever for it's own good,nerdy crap starting with all the stuff from Unknown(Kuttner at his worst,De Camp,Leiber,Frederic Brown etc.)...it's just corny...and as for all this modern stuff,if this is what more sophisticated writing is about,then bring back the unsophisticated!

Have i mentioned Peter Dagmar?...he was good.

A couple more, both of which are only partial fits, but that I think are worthy...

-Dave Duncan's "Seventh Sword" trilogy is sort of a combination of planetary romance and conventional high fantasy... both subverted to heck and back. Fairly recent (80s) but out of print to the best of my knowledge, and leaving anything by Duncan out of print has got to be some sort of crime. (His eight-book series A Man of his Word/A Handful of Men, while not fitting Planet Stories' imprimatur at all, is likewise out of print and really should get back in somehow.)

-Much closer to the mark, the Gandalara Cycle. The final work of Randall Garrett, completed posthumously (or post brain injuriously, I can't recall which) by his wife Vicki Ann Heydron; also 80s, but it's Randall Garrett, people! Aged and dying ex-Marine Ricardo Carillo is struck (he assumes) by a meteor, only to awaken in a young, strong, not quite human body inhabiting the desert world of Gandalara. All good so far... but his new body used to belong to someone else, who had certain issues that he's inherited... like family problems and massive gambling debts... and what looks like a simple quest to recover a stolen jewel (that said body's former owner may or may not have helped to steal) turns out to have far greater consequences than he could have imagined.

have you been inside a second hand bookshop lately?...or a st vinnies?...that Gandalara stuff is everywhere...cheap too...i've read about ten Randall Garrett books and stories and i think it's all crap...another one of these third rate writers using everyone else's ideas(but the critics love it)...like Gardiner Fox or Lin Carter or something...'Kyrik and The Lost Queen' by Fox gets about 4/10...nah,3...here's a list of Catherine Moore stories that i don't think have ever been re-published...'Miracle in Three Dimensions','Greater Glories',Greater than Gods','There Shall be Darkness'...and as Lawrence O'Donnell,'This is The House','Paradise Street','Promised Land',The Code' and 'Heir Apparent'...now that would be a real coup to get that stuff!...also 'Judgement Night'(novel)

I’ve got a few book ideas for you:

“Space Hawk” by Anthony Gilmore
I’ve recently read “Space Vulture” (a modern tribute to pulp sci-fi) by Gary K. Wolf (creator of Roger Rabbit) and Archbishop John J. Myers. In the introduction to it they speak fondly of “Space Hawk”, it was “Space Hawk” that started them on sci-fi and inspired them to write.
I haven’t read “Space Hawk”, so I can’t recommend it personally, but I think it’s worth looking into. I’ve searched for it on Amazon but the only copies available are old, used, and expensive. As far as I can tell, it hasn’t been in print for at least fifty years.
If you were to publish it, I’m sure you could easily get Gary K. Wolf or John J. Myers (or both) to write an introduction.

“The Goddess of Atvatabar” by William R. Bradshaw
“Goddess of Atvatabar” is an early hollow-earth adventure, preceding ERB’s Pellucidar series by several years at least.
Sadly, another book I haven’t read. But I’ve heard it’s good and I’d like to read it (though I’d rather read it in a new Planet Stories edition than in an old falling-apart antique). I believe it’s also out of print.

“The Wizard of Venus” by Edgar Rice Burroughs
It’s a novelette, so you’d have to include other material---how about “Elmer”, the ERB story that was edited into being “The Resurrection of Jimber-Jaw”. (“Elmer” has not seen print since 2001, in a limited edition anthology)---to fill out the book. You could almost recreate the old “Tales of Three Planets” collection.
“Wizard of Venus” is the only story from any of ERB’s more famous series’ that is not being published by Leonaur.

I’d love it if you published any of the above, particularly “Space Hawk”.
Hope to hear from you soon,
---Theris

well i for one would love to read 'The Goddess of Atvatabar'!...i've heard of it i think...'Space Hawk', who knows?...'The Wizard of Venus' wasn't anything to write home about...it was ok...just

Back when the Gord the Rogue Books have been published I loved them. Part of that love had to do with them being based in Greyhawk. Back then, they made good reading but having reread them just a few month ago, I noted that the writing style is ...well lacking. I believe that this due to the reason that Fantasy writers have evolved during the last 20 years. Another example might be the Kane books by Karl Eduard Wagner. I really loved them, but after a recent re-read I asked myself: "what did you find so exiting about them back then." Again, I believe my preferences changed...evolved by reading novels of younger authors, who have developed a much more sophisticated writing style.

Still, both writers (as are other Classic Authors of SF an F) mentioned above are worth reading today, and are quite enjoyable. The lated Gygax books (Anubis Murders, Samarkand Solution, Deth in Delhi and Infernal Sorceress do have the problem that the reader does not know how the magic works. If You can get your hands on Gary's Dangerous Journey Rules, you can check out the magic system there, since the books are based on that RPG.

All in all, I can recommend any of his books. You will not waste your money. They are solid and one immediately recognizes that they have been written by a great storyteller. Just keep in mind that they have been written 20 to (almost) 30 years ago.

so you wouldn't think much of stuff that's like 50 or a hundred years old?...if so,you are missing out!...are you sure it's not you that's become more 'sophisticated'?...this happens to all of us...i even loved robert heinlein as a teenager...like 'glory road' and 'methuselah's children'?...but when i re-read them a few years ago it was just really ORDINARY...same with stacks of others(poul anderson,zelazny,edmund cooper etc etc)...but i can read moore,brackett,howard,ashton smith,et al over and over and just get more out of it...it's just BETTER...and the old gothic stuff of sheridan le fanu,william beckford,mary shelley etc.from the previous century is just as cool now as it ever was...oh well,each to their own

Elorebaen wrote:

No jesting :) I would say that the Inhetep stories are better than some of Moore's, though overall, yes, Moore is a better writer than Gygax.

Mairkurion {tm} wrote:

Comparable with Moore? Surely you jest?

Personally Black God's Kiss was a hard read for me. Not that I didn't enjoy the stories, just that it didn't engage me and therefore took me longer to read.

Gygax on the other hand engaged me straight away and kept me there.
The Anubis Murders was good.
The Samarkand Solution was better.
I am waiting for Death in Delhi to see if the trend continues.

Infernal Sorceress has ben my favourite so far (which is a big ask to beat the Setne ones since I am an Ancient Egyptian fanboi). It makes me wish we had the chance to hear more stories of Ferret and Raker.

All in all. Highly enjoyable.

are you people actually comparing catherine l.moore unfavourably with gary gygax?...i thought it was some other moore you were talking about...oh dear...how STRANGE that a lot of you don't seem to like jirel of joiry...there is NO accounting for taste(which is good,but hello!!!...gary gygax???...c.l.moore???...god no!!)

True, true...

How about the Radio Man books by Ralph Farley?

hell yes!!...don't worry,it's been suggested and it's on the way (apparently)